Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

you are advocating the devil is stronger than God

nope. I believe Scripture just as it is written by the Author.

I believe the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for all the sin of all mankind, just as is written in Scripture:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


I believe there are some who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, just as is written in Scripture:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō = suppress, restrain] the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

I believe God when He tells me the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. I believe God when He tells me He reveals Himself to all mankind and yet some suppress the truth ... in suppressing the truth, they reject God.

You, on the other hand, must manipulate Scripture in order to conclude that "the whole world" means "world of the elect".

You manipulate Scripture in order to bring Scripture into alignment with your erroneous dogma. You are to bring your dogma into alignment with Scripture. Where your dogma and Scripture are not in alignment, let go of your error.
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[reneweddaybyday]

if a person dies in their sins, in unbelief Jn 8:24, that indicates Jesus didn't die for them

nope ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of all mankind ... all descendants of Adam ... the whole world:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


If a person dies in their sins in unbelief, it means they suppressed/restrained the truth in unrighteousness ... just as God tells us in Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō = suppress, restrain] the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
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[reneweddaybyday]

the Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3

Yes and 2 Cor 4:4 tells us the gospel is hid by satan.

However, you claim that the gospel is hid by God and when it was pointed out to you that it is satan who is responsible for the gospel being hid, you then claimed "satan works for God".

newsflash, brightfame52, God has not hid the gospel. God has revealed the gospel from Genesis to Revelation.

satan does not work for God in his work to keep the gospel hid.

Your whole dilemma stems from the fact that you refuse to believe what is written in Scripture.

The gospel is the gospel and the gospel is revealed in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

The mystery is the mystery which was hid in God from the foundation of the world until God revealed it to Paul.

In fact, 1 Cor 2:8 tells us that if satan had known the mystery, he would not have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 2:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


I will again spell these truths out to you and, hopefully, you can begin to understand so you quit arguing about things of which it is obvious you know nothing.

The gospel is revealed in all of Scripture. The gospel is not hidden. Even satan knows the gospel and, according to 2 Cor 4:4, it is satan who blinds the minds of those who do not believe the gospel ... which means it is not God Who hides the gospel.

The mystery was hidden in God until God revealed the mystery to Paul. satan did not know the mystery and had satan known the mystery he would not have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Gospel Truth is revealed to Faith

let's start from the beginning ... again

Read the verse as written, brightfame52.

The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to all who believe.

The righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel of Christ.

From faith to faith – the verse reveals that the born again one is made righteous through faith alone ... not from works to faith or from faith to works ... from faith to faith. the life of the born again one is to be lived by faith alone.

Matthew Henry Commentary ... "It is not from faith to works, as if faith put us into a justified state, and then works preserved and maintained us in it, but it is all along from faith to faith".
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[reneweddaybyday]

You dont get it

Yes, I do "get it". You are again redirecting the discussion back to your talking points because you have been shown that God never hid the gospel and the gospel is not the same as the mystery and the gospel is not the riches of the glory of the mystery ... but you can't just believe what is written.

You have to conflate the gospel and the mystery and the riches of the glory of the mystery in order to support your erroneous dogma.

Again, had satan known the mystery, he would not have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ because now satan has to contend with Lord Jesus Christ as Head of His body, the church. And it is the church which makes known unto principalities and powers in heavenly places the manifold wisdom of God:

Ephesians 3:

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God


Quit spouting your nonsense and start preaching the truth of Scrpture.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Again, like any other elect vessel of mercy, Job , Abel, Noal, Enoch and so forth, they were given Faith

there is only one faith (Eph 4:5) and all mankind has faith.

The issue is not do you have faith.

The issue is in WHOM do you have faith.

When a person believes (has faith) in the lie of the adversary that the gospel is hid ... or that since he/she is "elect" he/she does not need to believe and can live an ungodly life (wink, wink) ... that person will find him/herself cast into the lake of fire.

However, when a person believes (has faith in) the gospel ... that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of all descendants of Adam (not just the "elect") and that God raised Christ from the dead ... that person will absolutely be saved:

Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Enoch Preached the second coming of Christ in his day. Now if he preached the second coming of Christ, do you suppose he was ignorant of His first coming to put away the sins

Since it appears you believe "Job , Abel, Noal, Enoch and so forth" knew the gospel then it is clear that the gospel cannot be the mystery which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men.

Ephesians 3:

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit
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[reneweddaybyday]

The one who is confused is the one who insists that there is no difference between the gospel, the mystery, and the riches of the glory of the mystery.

Its all One Gospel, and its all a mystery

According to Scripture, the gospel is the gospel. The gospel is revealed throughout all Scripture ... from Genesis to Revelation.

According to Scripture, the mystery is the mystery. The mystery was hid in God from the beginning of the world (Eph 3:9).

Quit conflating the gospel with the mystery.

Conflation is the merging of two or more sets of information, texts, ideas, opinions, etc., into one, often in error. ...​

​

In logic, it is the practice of treating two distinct concepts as if they were one, which produces errors or misunderstandings ...​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflation​

​

you are confused if you think there is more than one Gospel !

I never said there "is more than one Gospel !". Your statement is just more of you projecting onto me your erroneous dogma because of your error in conflating the gospel with the mystery.
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[reneweddaybyday]

If the gospel is the mystery ... then what "gospel" did the Lord Jesus Christ preach when He walked on the earth?

The Gospel is a Mystery

Not an answer, brightfame52.

So, again, if the gospel is the mystery which in other ages was not made known (Eph 3:5), then what "gospel" did the Lord Jesus Christ preach when He walked on the earth?
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[reneweddaybyday]

the Gospel is still a Mystery

You keep saying "the Gospel is still a Mystery" and I am talking about the mystery which was kept secret since the world began.

The gospel cannot be the mystery referred to in Rom 16:25, 1 Cor 2:7, Eph 3, etc.). And I will tell you why.


In 2 Cor 4:3 we read that the gospel is hid to them that are lost and in 2 Cor 4:4 we read that it is satan who blinds the minds of them which believe not.

Clearly satan knows the gospel.


In 1 Cor 2:7 we read about the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom and in 1 Cor 2:8 we read that if the princes of this world (satan and those influenced by satan) had known the mystery they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Clearly if satan had known the mystery, he would not have worked in those who brought about the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ.


brightfame52, you really need to bring your dogma to Scripture and where Scripture differs from your dogma, let go of your error and hold to Scripture.


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

Paul even uses the definite article when saying the Gospel is the Mystery Eph 6:19

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Paul does not say "the Gospel is the Mystery". That is just you realigning the words of Scripture in order to prop up your erroneous dogma.

You do the same thing when you claim Romans 1:16-17 the "gospel must be revealed" when in truth Romans 1:16-17 states the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel of Christ.

You really need to stop manipulating Scripture. God is the Author and He placed the words in Scripture in the order He desired.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Most people I know dont understand 1 Cor 15:1-4

That's because you don't preach 1 Cor 15:1-4 ... you preach another Jesus ... you preach another gospel.

You even stated "you and I dont even believe in the same Jesus Christ".

I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

I am a whosoever.

You are not a whosoever ... according to you, you're "elect".

You do realize that Moses, the prophets and the psalms have more information than just the gospel, yes?

The OT he used to preach the Gospel. Now those truths had to be revealed to be believed

The writing of Scripture reveals the truth which mankind is to believe. That mankind suppresses the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) and turns from God does not mean God has not revealed the truth in Scripture.

Your error is your insistence that no one can believe what is plainly written in Scripture by God.

Your error is your insistence that truth is "concealed" by God, when God plainly reveals the truth which is to be believed by mankind.

iow, you suppress the truth in unrighteousness in your efforts to preach another gospel.

The gospel in and of itself is simple so that even a child can understand. Once a person is born again through faith in the simple truth of the gospel, then the Holy Spirit works within the born again one to reveal the depths of the wisdom of God ... which we will never fully comprehend in this lifetime, nor in eternity as God is that magnificent.

the Gospel is a Mystery to the natural man.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
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[reneweddaybyday]

you do understand that "regenerated" and "converted" are the same thing?

Rom 10:9-10 is about the regenerated being converted by the Gospel

Again, you do understand that "regenerated" and "converted" are the same thing?

If they are "regenerated", they already are "converted".

Under your erroneous dogma, how many times must a person be "converted" before they are "regenerated"???

Please use connected brain cells when responding to this post as I have told you this over and over yet you still keep insisting a person must be born again in order to be born again.

The unregenerate are those who obey not the Gospel

hmmmm ... sounds like works to me and Scripture is clear we are justified by faith (Rom 5:1). Scripture is also clear that faith is not works (Rom 4:5).

For the longest time you've been insisting that Rom 1:16-17 states that it is the gospel which is revealed. So now you finally acknowledge that it is the righteousness of God which is revealed.

the Gospel must be revealed, Already explained Rom 1;16-17

Now you're flip-flopping (again).

In your Post #1916, you finally acknowledged that Rom 1:16-17 states that the righteousness of God is revealed.

Now you're going back to your error.

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


Romans 1:16 clearly states that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth.

Romans 1:17 clearly states that the righteousness of God is revealed.

Romans 1:16-17 does not state that "the gospel must be revealed". That lie is from the "another gospel" you preach.
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[reneweddaybyday]

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam.

False teaching, He died for the Seed of Abraham.

The Lord Jesus Christ came to redeem all mankind (all descendants of Adam) which is why He did not take on Him the nature of angels. We see the same truth set forth in Philippians 2:

Philippians 2:

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men


If you weren't so focused on forcing Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma, you would comprehend the wonderful truth the Author of Scripture laid out in both Hebrews 2 and Philippians 2.

Hebrews 2:

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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[reneweddaybyday]

Only the already Justified, born again, believe the Gospel.

... another claim that a person must be born again in order to believe the gospel by which he/she is born again.

Do you even think before you submit your posts?

so you now agree we're justified by faith ... just as Romans 5:1 states???

I have always believed in Justification by Faith,

just more of your flip-flopping because you believe "another gospel".



Here's your "gospel" lie:

No, those He died for do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners,

I then called you out on that lie:

You're saying that those who reject God are "absolutely acquitted/absolved : to free from guilt or claim or their consequences". Your erroneous dogma has you believing the lies of the devil.

Those who remain "ungodly sinners" the whole of their lifetime will find themselves facing the lake of fire.

And you doubled down on your lie:

Yes

Now you're claiming you "have always believed in Justification by Faith". And it is clear you have not, nor do you, "always believed in Justification by Faith".

Our act of believing is our work.

You can claim that all the livelong day. God allows you to reject the truth of Scripture as you continuously suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

Scripture is very clear in telling us that faith is not works:

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


You preach a false gospel ... we all know it ... when you are called on your constant lies, you flip-flop and say the complete opposite of what you stated earlier in the thread.

You promote the lies of satan who hides gospel truth. way to go, brightfame52.
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[brightfame52]

The one who has "hijack faith" is the one who claims there are various types of faith even though Scripture makes clear there is only one faith:

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism





Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Your erroneous claim that I am "obligated to do the whole law" is nothing but your rejection of the truth of Scripture. Your rejection of Scripture only affects you.
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Once again, you bought this on yourself by your carelessness with faith, you have made it a requirement for Salvation/Justification which puts you under law.

 

[brightfame52]

nope. you're the one who first "brought up "human faith" in Post #1715. That term ("human faith") is a figment of your imagination.

I, on the other hand, have maintained that there is no such thing as "human faith" as, according to Scripture there is only one faith ...

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism


... one faith with which mankind believes the truth of Scripture.

When a person mis-utilizes that which God has provided to all mankind in order to believe Truth, that person believes the lies of satan with the same faith the true believer believes the Truth laid out in Scripture.
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Dont back track. You said all humans have been given faith, then foolishly quoted Rom 12:3

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[brightfame52]

nope. you're the one who first "brought up "human faith" in Post #1715. That term ("human faith") is a figment of your imagination.

I, on the other hand, have maintained that there is no such thing as "human faith" as, according to Scripture there is only one faith ...

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism


... one faith with which mankind believes the truth of Scripture.

When a person mis-utilizes that which God has provided to all mankind in order to believe Truth, that person believes the lies of satan with the same faith the true believer believes the Truth laid out in Scripture.
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Incredible, you still making Human faith a condition for Justification before God, thats law keeping. Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[brightfame52]

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
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You deny Justification by Faith, you say man is Justified by human faith, the flesh. Paul is speaking about the fruit of the Spirit Faith in Gal 3:24, you not.

 

[brightfame52]

Nope. I have shown you over and over in this thread alone that faith is not works

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


The one who makes faith "a law, a work" is the one who states over and over that I am "obligated to do the whole law" ... and it is brightfame52 who continues to throw that lie at me.
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Yes you do, you make faith out to be a law, a condition.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Generally, Calvinists sincerely believe that one's faith is a by-product of being elect. But they can't support that idea from the Bible.

iow, if God chose someone to be saved (unconditionally), He would regenerate them so that they COULD believe.

Of of this is totally unbiblical, of course.

yes ... I understand. However, brightfame52 has been shown the truth of Scripture in this thread, as well as other threads (I've read posts submitted by you (and others) where the truth of Scripture has been told to brightfame52).

I pray for God to work in the the heart of brightfame52 so that brightfame52 lets go of all that is not in alignment with the truth of Scripture ...
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[reneweddaybyday]

you have made it a requirement for Salvation/Justification which puts you under law.

you are the only one who claims faith "puts [me] under the law". I am so thankful to God that He does not do so:

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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