Who Justifieth the Ungodly
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Acquitted by the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all !4
Isa 53:6
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
The words " laid on Him " are interesting, the word lay paga:
to meet, encounter, reach
fall,cause to light upon
John Gill on this verse writes and I agree with
Yet I want to know when did God first lay the iniquities of those Christ died for upon Him ?
Also when God did it, who became Legally liable for those iniquities ?
Liable means responsible,accountable !
Were those whom the iniquties belonged to now be responsible for them after God laid them upon Christ for them ? Can they ever be called into account for them ? See Rom 8:33-34 !
Well understand this, to lay iniquity upon Christ is solely a work of God, who would argue this ? And what does the scripture teach about God's Works ? Acts 15:18
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
This work of laying our iniquties upon Christ is no exception ! In fact in the Purpose of God which is Eternal, Those iniquties had already been laid on Christ, or else how could it be written by Peter this 1 Pet 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Clearly this states that the redeeming Blood of Christ was foreordained before the foundation,
Also John writes Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Slain for what ? Why for our iniquities ! At the Least we know that God had already determined who was liable for the iniquties of those whom in the time state He would be slain for Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
I Think we have established at least when Christ became accountable for the iniquities that were laid on Him, it was from the foundation of the world or before the foundation of the world 1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Now since Christ became Liable for them that Early, they are also Discharged from them that Early !
Discharged means :
to relieve of a charge or load; unload:
to relieve of obligation, responsibility
They were not any Longer responsible or accountable for their iniquties, because God had made Christ accountable for them.
Thats why Paul could preach of those to whom it applies 2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
That world in 2 Cor 5:19 is a unbelieving world that is discharged of all its iniquities and transgressions, or trespasses against God.
That fact alone should keep any honest heart from concluding that the World in 2 Cor 5:19 is all individuals without exception, since we know many shall die in their sins Jn 8:24 which is impossible if they have been discharged from them !
If they were Laid on Christ, then they were discharged of them, simple as that ! And God will not impute sin unto them ever Rom 4:8
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
If He ever did, He becomes mutable !
Isa 53:6
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
The words " laid on Him " are interesting, the word lay paga:
to meet, encounter, reach
fall,cause to light upon
John Gill on this verse writes and I agree with
and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all; that is, God the Father, against whom we have sinned, from whom we have turned, and whose justice must be satisfied; he has laid on Christ, his own Son, the sins of all his elect ones; which are as it were collected together, and made one bundle and burden of, and therefore expressed in the singular number, "iniquity", and laid on Christ, and were bore by him, even all the sins of all God's elect; a heavy burden this! which none but the mighty God could bear; this was typified by laying of hands, and laying of sins upon the sacrifice, and putting the iniquities of Israel upon the head of the scapegoat, by whom they were bore, and carried away. The words may be rendered, "he made to meet upon him the iniquity of us all" (r); the elect of God, as they live in every part of the world, their sins are represented as coming from all quarters, east, west, north, and south; and as meeting in Christ, as they did, when he suffered as their representative on the cross: or "he made to rush, or fall upon him the iniquity of us all" (s); our sins, like a large and mighty army, beset him around, and fell upon him in a hostile manner, and were the cause of his death; by which means the law and justice of God had full satisfaction, and our recovery from ruin and destruction is procured, which otherwise must have been the consequence of turning to our own ways; so the ancient Jews understood this of the Messiah
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Yet I want to know when did God first lay the iniquities of those Christ died for upon Him ?
Also when God did it, who became Legally liable for those iniquities ?
Liable means responsible,accountable !
Were those whom the iniquties belonged to now be responsible for them after God laid them upon Christ for them ? Can they ever be called into account for them ? See Rom 8:33-34 !
Well understand this, to lay iniquity upon Christ is solely a work of God, who would argue this ? And what does the scripture teach about God's Works ? Acts 15:18
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
This work of laying our iniquties upon Christ is no exception ! In fact in the Purpose of God which is Eternal, Those iniquties had already been laid on Christ, or else how could it be written by Peter this 1 Pet 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Clearly this states that the redeeming Blood of Christ was foreordained before the foundation,
Also John writes Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Slain for what ? Why for our iniquities ! At the Least we know that God had already determined who was liable for the iniquties of those whom in the time state He would be slain for Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
I Think we have established at least when Christ became accountable for the iniquities that were laid on Him, it was from the foundation of the world or before the foundation of the world 1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Now since Christ became Liable for them that Early, they are also Discharged from them that Early !
Discharged means :
to relieve of a charge or load; unload:
to relieve of obligation, responsibility
They were not any Longer responsible or accountable for their iniquties, because God had made Christ accountable for them.
Thats why Paul could preach of those to whom it applies 2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
That world in 2 Cor 5:19 is a unbelieving world that is discharged of all its iniquities and transgressions, or trespasses against God.
That fact alone should keep any honest heart from concluding that the World in 2 Cor 5:19 is all individuals without exception, since we know many shall die in their sins Jn 8:24 which is impossible if they have been discharged from them !
If they were Laid on Christ, then they were discharged of them, simple as that ! And God will not impute sin unto them ever Rom 4:8
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
If He ever did, He becomes mutable !
renewed
I have read Rom 4:25 in its context, how do you think I seen the verse in the first place, it wasn't just floating around in the sky. The verse gives a very specific truth, Jesus was raised from the dead because of the Justification of them He died for. I have explained that to you on numerous occasions. Your problem is that you dont believe the death of Christ alone put away and Justified from all sins, those He died for, which is an attack on the efficacy of the death of Christ.
As far as Rom 5:1 is concerned, I have explained that to you at least 20-25 times.
I have read Rom 4:25 in its context, how do you think I seen the verse in the first place, it wasn't just floating around in the sky. The verse gives a very specific truth, Jesus was raised from the dead because of the Justification of them He died for. I have explained that to you on numerous occasions. Your problem is that you dont believe the death of Christ alone put away and Justified from all sins, those He died for, which is an attack on the efficacy of the death of Christ.
As far as Rom 5:1 is concerned, I have explained that to you at least 20-25 times.
renewed
yes, Righteousness is imputed before one believes. Believing proves that it has been imputed, those who shall believe in the future give evidence that righteousness has been imputed. I have explained that to you numerous times. Following Rom 4:24 is Vs 25 showing explicitly that Christ was raised for our Justification, showing that at the time of His resurrection, it was declared that them He died for are Justified before God, or Christ could not have been raised from the dead, and they would still be in their sins.
Your error is that you refuse to believe that Christs death alone Justified, made righteous, them He died for, but that they must act first, then based upon their act of believing, God Justifies them. That is works my friend, pure and simple.
yes, Righteousness is imputed before one believes. Believing proves that it has been imputed, those who shall believe in the future give evidence that righteousness has been imputed. I have explained that to you numerous times. Following Rom 4:24 is Vs 25 showing explicitly that Christ was raised for our Justification, showing that at the time of His resurrection, it was declared that them He died for are Justified before God, or Christ could not have been raised from the dead, and they would still be in their sins.
Your error is that you refuse to believe that Christs death alone Justified, made righteous, them He died for, but that they must act first, then based upon their act of believing, God Justifies them. That is works my friend, pure and simple.
renewed
A person isnt aware of their Justification before God by the death of Christ, not until they are given Faith to see it, then they receive it by Faith, thats called Justification by Faith, in that sense righteousness has been charged to ones mind and heart.
For example, a criminal may have been given a pardon by the governor two days ago, yet he doesnt know about it until two days later, then he receives the good news of it, Yet that was only after the pardoned had been established previously two days earlier. The criminals receiving the good news of his pardon isn't what caused the governor two days earlier to grant the criminal the pardon. Yet it was only when the criminal received the good news, was it charged, to his consciousness, resulting in peace and joy in believing.
A person isnt aware of their Justification before God by the death of Christ, not until they are given Faith to see it, then they receive it by Faith, thats called Justification by Faith, in that sense righteousness has been charged to ones mind and heart.
For example, a criminal may have been given a pardon by the governor two days ago, yet he doesnt know about it until two days later, then he receives the good news of it, Yet that was only after the pardoned had been established previously two days earlier. The criminals receiving the good news of his pardon isn't what caused the governor two days earlier to grant the criminal the pardon. Yet it was only when the criminal received the good news, was it charged, to his consciousness, resulting in peace and joy in believing.
renewed
Again, Rom 4:5 is clear that God Justified the ungodly, in the greek its, is justifying the ungodly, present tense, so the Justifying is while being ungodly.
Its the same thing as saying the elect were reconciled to God while being enemies Rom 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Now enemies and ungodly are the same, and reconciled to God and Justified before God are equivalent as well.
Again, Rom 4:5 is clear that God Justified the ungodly, in the greek its, is justifying the ungodly, present tense, so the Justifying is while being ungodly.
Its the same thing as saying the elect were reconciled to God while being enemies Rom 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Now enemies and ungodly are the same, and reconciled to God and Justified before God are equivalent as well.
renewed
Again, God Justified the ungodly, when in a ungodly state, man is faithless and an enemy in his mind, so God doesnt Justify the ungodly because of their believing faith, they dont have any, but God Justifys them because He sees them as righteous in Christ, and thats what they are given Faith to believe. Faith isnt their righteousness, but Christ is, the object of their faith.
You erroneously believe that Faith is their righteousness, instead of the object of their Faith, Christ.
Again, God Justified the ungodly, when in a ungodly state, man is faithless and an enemy in his mind, so God doesnt Justify the ungodly because of their believing faith, they dont have any, but God Justifys them because He sees them as righteous in Christ, and thats what they are given Faith to believe. Faith isnt their righteousness, but Christ is, the object of their faith.
You erroneously believe that Faith is their righteousness, instead of the object of their Faith, Christ.
Of course you agree …
brightfame52 ... you continue to ignore what God tells us in Romans 1. Those who reject will be held responsible for their own sins:
Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō] the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
vs 18 – the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain, hinder. God reveals Himself to all mankind and some restrain the truth. They reject God and God allows them to reject Him.
vs 20 – those who reject are without excuse. They are inexcusable. The Lord Jesus Christ died for all sin of all mankind (all descendants of Adam). When a person rejects, there is no other sacrifice for sin, so their sin remains.
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John Gill (23 November 1697 – 14 October 1771) was an English Baptist pastor, biblical scholar, and theologian who held to a firm Calvinistic soteriology.
brightfame52 ... you continue to ignore what God tells us in Romans 1. Those who reject will be held responsible for their own sins:
Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō] the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
vs 18 – the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain, hinder. God reveals Himself to all mankind and some restrain the truth. They reject God and God allows them to reject Him.
vs 20 – those who reject are without excuse. They are inexcusable. The Lord Jesus Christ died for all sin of all mankind (all descendants of Adam). When a person rejects, there is no other sacrifice for sin, so their sin remains.
.
It is written
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in his rejection of Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ. God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
then surely you understand the context???
Romans 4:
20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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Nope.
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead
The words "shall be imputed" are translated from the Greek word mellō. And please note, the verb is in the present tense and it is in the indicative mood, which means it denotes present time (i.e. at the time the person believes).
If the righteousness was imputed "before one believes", the verb would be in the perfect or pluperfect tense
that's called "brightfam52's interpretation of Scripture".
Again, all descendants of Adam have faith because when God created, formed, made Adam, God included faith within Adam.
When a person utilizes faith properly by believing truth, God then works to bring about the results God promised. In the case of Romans 4:24, God imputes righteousness when the person believes on Him (God) Who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead:
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
The verse states the person believes on Him who justifies the ungodly. The person acknowledges that he/she is ungodly ... and believes God justifies him/her.
And just an fyi, brightfame52, once a person believes and is born again, he/she is no longer "ungodly".
here's the sequence:
"ungodly" ... hear the Word of truth ... trust / believe ... sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (which is to be born again) ... child of God and no longer "ungodly"
Ephesians 1:13 In whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
Those who are reconciled to God are those who are justified by faith as shown in Romans 5:1, at which point we are no longer enemies.
It is written:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
You really need to let go of the lie that faith is works. Once you do that, you can believe all the wonderful verses in Scripture without having to manipulate/reject God's Word
Sure they do ... all descendants of Adam have faith ... even unbelievers. The atheist has faith (believes) there is no God ... pagans have faith (believe) there are many gods.
The only ones who are "in Christ" are those who are born again.
Again all descendants of Adam have faith.
glad to see you're finally picking up what I've been laying down.
You are a liar.
I have been telling you for months that faith does not save ... that it is the Object of faith Who saves.
Again, just in case you missed it, brightfame52:
The issue is "in what ... or more accurately in Whom ... does a person place his/her faith". It is the Whom Who saves. I don't know how many times I have to tell you this before you believe that it is God Who saves ...
.
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead
The words "shall be imputed" are translated from the Greek word mellō. And please note, the verb is in the present tense and it is in the indicative mood, which means it denotes present time (i.e. at the time the person believes).
If the righteousness was imputed "before one believes", the verb would be in the perfect or pluperfect tense
that's called "brightfam52's interpretation of Scripture".
Again, all descendants of Adam have faith because when God created, formed, made Adam, God included faith within Adam.
When a person utilizes faith properly by believing truth, God then works to bring about the results God promised. In the case of Romans 4:24, God imputes righteousness when the person believes on Him (God) Who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead:
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
The verse states the person believes on Him who justifies the ungodly. The person acknowledges that he/she is ungodly ... and believes God justifies him/her.
And just an fyi, brightfame52, once a person believes and is born again, he/she is no longer "ungodly".
here's the sequence:
"ungodly" ... hear the Word of truth ... trust / believe ... sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (which is to be born again) ... child of God and no longer "ungodly"
Ephesians 1:13 In whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
Those who are reconciled to God are those who are justified by faith as shown in Romans 5:1, at which point we are no longer enemies.
It is written:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
You really need to let go of the lie that faith is works. Once you do that, you can believe all the wonderful verses in Scripture without having to manipulate/reject God's Word
Sure they do ... all descendants of Adam have faith ... even unbelievers. The atheist has faith (believes) there is no God ... pagans have faith (believe) there are many gods.
The only ones who are "in Christ" are those who are born again.
Again all descendants of Adam have faith.
glad to see you're finally picking up what I've been laying down.
You are a liar.
I have been telling you for months that faith does not save ... that it is the Object of faith Who saves.
Again, just in case you missed it, brightfame52:
The issue is "in what ... or more accurately in Whom ... does a person place his/her faith". It is the Whom Who saves. I don't know how many times I have to tell you this before you believe that it is God Who saves ...
.
renewed
Its no way around it, the Gospel is a Mystery, it must be revealed. Rom 1:16-17
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
The Gospel is hidden to the Lost 2 Cor 4:3
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
The word mystery means something is hidden, its the greek word mystērion :
hidden thing, secret, mystery
True knowledge of the Gospel is witheld from the Lost, thats what hid means kalyptō :
The Gospel is hidden from and a mystery to the lost natural man !
Its no way around it, the Gospel is a Mystery, it must be revealed. Rom 1:16-17
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
The Gospel is hidden to the Lost 2 Cor 4:3
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
The word mystery means something is hidden, its the greek word mystērion :
hidden thing, secret, mystery
- generally mysteries, religious secrets, confided only to the initiated and not to ordinary mortals
- a hidden or secret thing, not obvious to the understanding
- a hidden purpose or counsel
True knowledge of the Gospel is witheld from the Lost, thats what hid means kalyptō :
- to hide, veil
- to hinder the knowledge of a thing
The Gospel is hidden from and a mystery to the lost natural man !
renewed
Christ being in scripture is fine, yet men must have their understanding open supernaturally to understand the scriptures Lk 24:45
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Men naturally dont understand the scriptures. They are still veiled to the natural man. Christ must be revealed in us like as with Paul
Gal 1:16
To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Im sure Saul of Tarsus was very well verse in the OT scriptures , but he didnt understand them until Christ revealed Himself in him.
Christ being in scripture is fine, yet men must have their understanding open supernaturally to understand the scriptures Lk 24:45
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Men naturally dont understand the scriptures. They are still veiled to the natural man. Christ must be revealed in us like as with Paul
Gal 1:16
To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Im sure Saul of Tarsus was very well verse in the OT scriptures , but he didnt understand them until Christ revealed Himself in him.
Romans 1:16 says the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes.
Romans 1:17 does not say the gospel of Christ must be revealed.
Romans 1:17 says the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel of Christ.
The gospel is not hid. The day the Lord Jesus Christ arose from the dead, He appeared to two men travelling to Emmaus. Jesus walked with them for awhile and spoke to them of the things revealed (not hidden) in the Scriptures concerning Himself:
Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
The Subject of Scripture is the Lord Jesus Christ ... you are deluded if you believe the Lord Jesus Christ is "hidden" and/or "not revealed". You are following a wind of doctrine in which you are deceived.
In the Book of Job (which is considered by some to be the oldest book in the Bible), Job says:
Job 19:
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
Job knew his Redeemer! So get out of here with your nonsense about "the Gospel is a Mystery". God didn't keep the Redeemer a secret. He's written in many, many Scriptures beginning in Genesis and continuing all the way through Revelation.
Read the next verse, brightfame52:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
The god of this world is satan. The whole ministry of satan is to steal, kill, destroy. Of course he's going to blind the minds of them which believe not ... and it appears he's hoodwinked you. You have fallen for his lies and, worse yet, you propound his lies to others.
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
As far as the gospel, God did not hide, does not hide, will not hide the gospel. If God were to hide it, it would stay hidden ... just as the hidden wisdom of God stayed hid until God revealed it to His holy apostles and prophets.
The word "mystery [Greek mystērion]" does not appear in 2 Cor 4:3, nor does it appear in the whole chapter.
The word kalyptō does not appear in 1 Cor 2:7, nor does it appear in the whole chapter.
You're just making stuff up now in your desperate attempt to force Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma.
You need to consider 2 Corinthians 4:2
2 Corinthians 4:
1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
What you are teaching is wholly in alignment with what the god of this world teaches ... satan wants the gospel hid. satan does not want the gospel known and you're falling right into his snare.
Christ is not just a casual reference ... He is the Word: The Lord Jesus Christ is the whole Subject of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.
Christ in Paul is not the gospel. Christ in the believer is the riches of the glory of the mystery:
Colossians 1:
26 Even the mystery [not "gospel"] which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory
The mystery is the mystery and the gospel is the gospel. And Christ within the born again one is not the mystery, nor is it the gospel. Scripture clearly states that Christ in the believer is the riches of the glory of the mystery.
Do you even know what is the gospel, brightfame52?
Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
1 Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
READ YOUR BIBLE!!! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ALIGN SCRIPTURE TO YOUR ERRONEOUS DOGMA. ALIGN YOUR DOGMA WITH SCRIPTURE AND WHERE YOUR DOGMA DOES NOT ALIGN WITH SCRIPTURE, GET RID OF YOUR ERROR!!!
.
Romans 1:17 does not say the gospel of Christ must be revealed.
Romans 1:17 says the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel of Christ.
The gospel is not hid. The day the Lord Jesus Christ arose from the dead, He appeared to two men travelling to Emmaus. Jesus walked with them for awhile and spoke to them of the things revealed (not hidden) in the Scriptures concerning Himself:
Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
The Subject of Scripture is the Lord Jesus Christ ... you are deluded if you believe the Lord Jesus Christ is "hidden" and/or "not revealed". You are following a wind of doctrine in which you are deceived.
In the Book of Job (which is considered by some to be the oldest book in the Bible), Job says:
Job 19:
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
Job knew his Redeemer! So get out of here with your nonsense about "the Gospel is a Mystery". God didn't keep the Redeemer a secret. He's written in many, many Scriptures beginning in Genesis and continuing all the way through Revelation.
Read the next verse, brightfame52:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
The god of this world is satan. The whole ministry of satan is to steal, kill, destroy. Of course he's going to blind the minds of them which believe not ... and it appears he's hoodwinked you. You have fallen for his lies and, worse yet, you propound his lies to others.
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
As far as the gospel, God did not hide, does not hide, will not hide the gospel. If God were to hide it, it would stay hidden ... just as the hidden wisdom of God stayed hid until God revealed it to His holy apostles and prophets.
The word "mystery [Greek mystērion]" does not appear in 2 Cor 4:3, nor does it appear in the whole chapter.
The word kalyptō does not appear in 1 Cor 2:7, nor does it appear in the whole chapter.
You're just making stuff up now in your desperate attempt to force Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma.
You need to consider 2 Corinthians 4:2
2 Corinthians 4:
1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
What you are teaching is wholly in alignment with what the god of this world teaches ... satan wants the gospel hid. satan does not want the gospel known and you're falling right into his snare.
Christ is not just a casual reference ... He is the Word: The Lord Jesus Christ is the whole Subject of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.
Christ in Paul is not the gospel. Christ in the believer is the riches of the glory of the mystery:
Colossians 1:
26 Even the mystery [not "gospel"] which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory
The mystery is the mystery and the gospel is the gospel. And Christ within the born again one is not the mystery, nor is it the gospel. Scripture clearly states that Christ in the believer is the riches of the glory of the mystery.
Do you even know what is the gospel, brightfame52?
Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
1 Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
READ YOUR BIBLE!!! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ALIGN SCRIPTURE TO YOUR ERRONEOUS DOGMA. ALIGN YOUR DOGMA WITH SCRIPTURE AND WHERE YOUR DOGMA DOES NOT ALIGN WITH SCRIPTURE, GET RID OF YOUR ERROR!!!
.
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renewed
I believe the god of this world in 2 Cor 4:3-4 is speaking of satan, who is the prince of this world, nevertheless, he blinds the minds of the Lost. As long as one is in a unregenerate spiritually lost condition, they are blinded and the Gospel is hid from them. The word hid is in the perfect tense, hiding that took place in the past with results into the present. So the unregenerate man is in a permanent lost condition and blind to the Gospel.
I believe the god of this world in 2 Cor 4:3-4 is speaking of satan, who is the prince of this world, nevertheless, he blinds the minds of the Lost. As long as one is in a unregenerate spiritually lost condition, they are blinded and the Gospel is hid from them. The word hid is in the perfect tense, hiding that took place in the past with results into the present. So the unregenerate man is in a permanent lost condition and blind to the Gospel.
renewed
intentionally obtuse.
You said yourself that all men are naturally given faith, then quoted Rom 12:3 for your support
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
I told you that verse is speaking about the Church, the Body of Christ, you aregued that its everyone and then went way over to Matt 25 to prove your point. So if you believe all men naturally have been given faith, that's according to the Law of creation, so you are obligated to do all the Law .
intentionally obtuse.
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
I told you that verse is speaking about the Church, the Body of Christ, you aregued that its everyone and then went way over to Matt 25 to prove your point. So if you believe all men naturally have been given faith, that's according to the Law of creation, so you are obligated to do all the Law .
renewed
Scripture tells us that human faith is required by the Law and cant be undone Matt 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
In fact Faith is one of those weightier matters of the Law.
Scripture tells us that human faith is required by the Law and cant be undone Matt 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
In fact Faith is one of those weightier matters of the Law.