Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Runningman]

How about you provide just a one line comment on each verse from Ephesians 2:11-19.

That way, I can see how you convert works into the works of the law.

I am not seeing what your seeing, that's for sure.

How about you provide just a one line comment on each verse from Ephesians 2:11-19.

That way, I can see how you convert works into the works of the law.

I am not seeing what your seeing, that's for sure.

Ephesians 2:11-19 says that though gentiles were not citizens of Israel or part of the old covenant they have been brought near to God by the blood of Christ.

The “law of commandments” is a reference to the Mosaic law. In other words, circumcision and works of the law are useless to save someone.

When Ephesians says you aren’t saved by works, the context is specifically about keeping the Law of Moses. Law keeping is referred to as works.

Good works such as being a Good Samaritan, loving our neighbor, loving God, faith in Christ, water baptism, feeding hungry people, giving clothes to people who need them, giving people a home, etc are works that save and they are required. Jesus taught that in addition to having faith in Him.

 

[Goliath]

Faith doesn't need to be "proved", or show me a verse that says so.

A verse doesn't prove anything...but I will teach you something, something you don't know,...using verses. And hopefully you will teach it to your SS students, for I am an actual teacher.

Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my Works. (James 2:18)
Why does James tell us, "I will show you my faith,...by my Works"?
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every man, according to their works.
(Revelation 20:13)
Why does God judge us according to our Works?
Even as Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” (Galatians 3:6-7)
Abrahams believed God, but why was his Faith, credited to him as Righteousness?
You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?
Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
(James 2:20-24)
Does out faith need to be credited as righteousness?
For I hungered, and ye gave Me meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took Me in; naked, and ye clothed Me; I was sick, and ye visited Me; I was in prison, and ye came unto Me.’ Then shall the righteous answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when saw we Thee hungering and fed Thee, or thirsty and gave Thee drink? When saw we Thee a stranger and took Thee in, or naked and clothed Thee? Or when saw we Thee sick, or in prison, and came unto Thee?’ And the King shall answer and say unto them, ‘Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me.’ (Matthew 25:35-40)
Notice the clarity, in how a teacher, a teacher taught by the Holy Spirit, can use the teachers in the bible do all of their teaching, without commentary.
Lets see you do the same.... to prove your point.

My, you're the nosy one. I've been a deacon in my church for about 20 years. I've been an adult SS teacher for nearly the same time. My giving is none of your business, but it's way more than 10%.

Interesting..
You believe if someone asks for your testimony, they are being Nosy?
BTW.....I never asked you about any of these things...I asked for signs of faith. You volunteered your credentials, I guess,.. as a show of faith. Giving me your credentials are signs of your self righteousness. According to Jesus, they are not signs of faith, faith that God will credit as righteousness.
I was looking for something more along these lines...
For I hungered, and ye gave Me meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took Me in; naked, and ye clothed Me; I was sick, and ye visited Me; I was in prison, and ye came unto Me.’ Then shall the righteous answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when saw we Thee hungering and fed Thee, or thirsty and gave Thee drink? When saw we Thee a stranger and took Thee in, or naked and clothed Thee? Or when saw we Thee sick, or in prison, and came unto Thee?’ And the King shall answer and say unto them, ‘Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me.’
(Matthew 25:35-40)

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Thanks for posting.

"Equally as startling, it was found that a majority of people who describe themselves as Christian (52%) believe that a person can gain eternal salvation by “being or doing good.” That includes close to half of all adults associated with Pentecostal (46%), mainline Protestant (44%), and evangelical (41%) churches. As expected, a much larger share of Catholics (70%) embrace that point of view."

All due respect, I don't think the findings are accurate.
The percentage of those who believe that works are required for salvation is higher than that IMHO. There is a higher majority that think faith in the Savior is not enough, so they believe in a works based salvation. What percentage is speculation, but ask those who actually knock on doors around the country, soul winning and leading others to Christ, you'll get more accurate results. That shows me that the fields are ready for harvest, but the laborers are sadly few.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No I didn’t contradict Paul. Did you actually read my post before responding? The works Paul mentioned in Ephesians 2:8 are works of the law, which I said don’t save.

Paul didn't say works of the LAW, as you presume. He said "works". That means any human effort.

He also wrote Rom 4:4,5
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

In v.4 Paul used the word "works" and related that word to "wages".

So, who earned wages from "works of the LAW" as you seem to think? No one. Ever.

When Paul said "works" he was referring to human effort that is paid a wage. ie: EARNED.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yep no agape love without Holy spirit

jesus say apart from me you can do nothing

Right. Unless the believer is IN fellowship with the Lord, via 1 John 1:9, they CAN'T bear fruit. John 15:1-6.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Can you give me a verse that plainly says salvation can be lost?

renew what, exactly? Read the text. It's real clear. It's NOT salvation. It's about changing their minde (that's what repentance means) about what they are doing.

How you know renew mean repent

What do you think it means? And how do you know it ISN'T repent?

and how about salvation without love

I asked for a verse that "plainly says salvation can be lost". And you don't deliver. Why is that?

If you don't have a verse, then there is no reason to believe that salvation can be lost.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I strongly encourage you to know the difference between good works and works of the law.

Read Rom 4:4,5. When Paul mentions "work" without mentioning the LAW he refers to human effort that EARNS a wage.

 

[mailmandan]

Read Rom 4:4,5. When Paul mentions "work" without mentioning the LAW he refers to human effort that EARNS a wage.

In an effort to get around the truth, people who teach salvation by works often try turn "not saved by works" passages into saved by "these" works (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law) but this argument is bogus.

In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "work of faith/good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Now which good works could a Christian could do that are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18)

So when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, we cannot dissect good works from the law of Moses. In Titus 3:5, Paul said that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, Paul said that God saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works.. so "not saved by works" is not merely limited to specific works under the law of Moses, but works in general.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Faith doesn't need to be "proved", or show me a verse that says so.

A verse doesn't prove anything

A verse DOES prove what is truth. When God wrote the truth down, that's evidence or proof.

...but I will teach you something, something you don't know,...using verses. And hopefully you will teach it to your SS students, for I am an actual teacher.

Hey, thanks for the huge snark and ad hominem. Slick.

Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my Works. (James 2:18)
Why does James tell us, "I will show you my faith,...by my Works"?
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every man, according to their works.
(Revelation 20:13)
Why does God judge us according to our Works?
Even as Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” (Galatians 3:6-7)
Abrahams believed God, but why was his Faith, credited to him as Righteousness?
You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?
Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
(James 2:20-24)

Yes I already explained this. In order for faith to be seen, there must be works. But having works doesn't mean one has faith in Christ. Even unbelievers, from religions, live moral lives, helping the poor, etc. Even the crowd in Matt 7:21-23 did MIRACLES in Jesus' name, yet Jesus told them He NEVER knew them. If any of them HAD ever believed in Him for salvation, He couldn't have said that.

We know from 2 verses that condemnation will be for those who "have NOT believed", which means "have NEVER believed".

John 3:18 -
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 -
and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The crowd in Matt 7:21-23 WILL BE CONDEMNED. Because they "have not believed". All they had was works.

Does out faith need to be credited as righteousness?

Not a legitimate question. God DOES credit our faith as righteousness. We DON'T "need" to do anything for our faith to be credited as righteousness, as your question insinuates.

For I hungered, and ye gave Me meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took Me in; naked, and ye clothed Me; I was sick, and ye visited Me; I was in prison, and ye came unto Me.’ Then shall the righteous answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when saw we Thee hungering and fed Thee, or thirsty and gave Thee drink? When saw we Thee a stranger and took Thee in, or naked and clothed Thee? Or when saw we Thee sick, or in prison, and came unto Thee?’ And the King shall answer and say unto them, ‘Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me.’ (Matthew 25:35-40)
Notice the clarity, in how a teacher, a teacher taught by the Holy Spirit, can use the teachers in the bible do all of their teaching, without commentary.
Lets see you do the same.... to prove your point.

Well, first explain what YOUR point is here? I have no idea.

Interesting..
You believe if someone asks for your testimony, they are being Nosy?

No, I don't believe that. Why do you think I do? In fact, that's the primary method of sharing our faith. So says the Bible

1 Peter 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

Col 4:6 - Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

BTW.....I never asked you about any of these things...I asked for signs of faith. You volunteered your credentials, I guess,.. as a show of faith.

If you don't understand that "signs of faith" are demonstrations of faith, I can't help you.

Giving me your credentials are signs of your self righteousness.

This is pure nonsense.

According to Jesus, they are not signs of faith, faith that God will credit as righteousness.

Well, you sure don't understand the Bible. It is faith in the Messiah that results in God crediting our faith as righteousness.

I was looking for something more along these lines...
For I hungered, and ye gave Me meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took Me in; naked, and ye clothed Me; I was sick, and ye visited Me; I was in prison, and ye came unto Me.’ Then shall the righteous answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when saw we Thee hungering and fed Thee, or thirsty and gave Thee drink? When saw we Thee a stranger and took Thee in, or naked and clothed Thee? Or when saw we Thee sick, or in prison, and came unto Thee?’ And the King shall answer and say unto them, ‘Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me.’
(Matthew 25:35-40)

OK, fine. However, teaching the Bible to students falls under the gifts of the Spirit. So does being deacon.

But since you were rather unaware of that, I understand your confusion.

 

[FreeGrace2]

In an effort to get around the truth, people who teach salvation by works often try turn "not saved by works" passages into saved by "these" works (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law) but this argument is bogus.

In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "work of faith/good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Now which good works could a Christian could do that are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18)

So when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, we cannot dissect good works from the law of Moses. In Titus 3:5, Paul said that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, Paul said that God saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works.. so "not saved by works" is not merely limited to specific works under the law of Moses, but works in general.

Amen!

 

[Jackson123]

Right. Unless the believer is IN fellowship with the Lord, via 1 John 1:9, they CAN'T bear fruit. John 15:1-6.

And believer mean a person that have fellowship to the Lord or cut and go to fire or hell, not save

 

[Jackson123]

In an effort to get around the truth, people who teach salvation by works often try turn "not saved by works" passages into saved by "these" works (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law) but this argument is bogus.

In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "work of faith/good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Now which good works could a Christian could do that are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18)

So when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, we cannot dissect good works from the law of Moses. In Titus 3:5, Paul said that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, Paul said that God saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works.. so "not saved by works" is not merely limited to specific works under the law of Moses, but works in general.

Not by work but create good work, Matt 25:34~41

 

[Jackson123]

Chose narrow gate to go to heaven Matt 7

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Right. Unless the believer is IN fellowship with the Lord, via 1 John 1:9, they CAN'T bear fruit. John 15:1-6.

And believer mean a person that have fellowship to the Lord or cut and go to fire or hell, not save

Good grief, NO! Haven't you been paying any attention? I've proved eternal security from the Bible, with very clear and straightforward verses.

Why won't you believe what the Bible says? You've made a terrible mistake in what you only "THINK" the Bible means.

When a person believes the gospel, they are SAVED. And you have agreed to that FACT.
The Bible says believers possess eternal life and have the Holy Spirit in them.
The Bible says recipients of eternal life (believers) shall never perish. You do NOT believe that, even though they are Jesus' words.
The Bible says that believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit which GUARANTEES the believer's inheritance for the day of redemption.

All this proves eternal security and reveals your terrible misunderstanding of the verses you obsess about.

Eph 1:13,14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

All these verses are directly related. They teach about believers being sealed with the Holy Spirit, which GUARANTEES the inheritance of believers for the day of redemption.

How can "redemption" be involved if believers can lose salvation? That is nuts.

Why don't you believe these verses? They ARE God's Holy Word. What is your excuse?

 

[Jackson123]

FreeGrace2 said:
Right. Unless the believer is IN fellowship with the Lord, via 1 John 1:9, they CAN'T bear fruit. John 15:1-6.

Good grief, NO! Haven't you been paying any attention? I've proved eternal security from the Bible, with very clear and straightforward verses.

Why won't you believe what the Bible says? You've made a terrible mistake in what you only "THINK" the Bible means.

When a person believes the gospel, they are SAVED. And you have agreed to that FACT.
The Bible says believers possess eternal life and have the Holy Spirit in them.
The Bible says recipients of eternal life (believers) shall never perish. You do NOT believe that, even though they are Jesus' words.
The Bible says that believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit which GUARANTEES the believer's inheritance for the day of redemption.

All this proves eternal security and reveals your terrible misunderstanding of the verses you obsess about.

Eph 1:13,14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

All these verses are directly related. They teach about believers being sealed with the Holy Spirit, which GUARANTEES the inheritance of believers for the day of redemption.

How can "redemption" be involved if believers can lose salvation? That is nuts.

Why don't you believe these verses? They ARE God's Holy Word. What is your excuse?

I believe all the verses but I notice you twisted John 15 about the meaning of fire
fire is figurative of hell

why Jesus call heaven fire?

 

[Magenta]

Interesting..
You believe if someone asks for your testimony, they are being Nosy?

You did not ask for testimony. You repeatedly mocked, scorned, and accused.

They didn’t Just read about faith in a book as many like you do.

You say you have faith, but the only thing which proves your faith, is what you read in the Bible.

If I am wrong, what have you done to show your faith?

 

[Magenta]

Giving me your credentials are signs of your self righteousness.

I am an actual teacher.

So I see

 

[FreeGrace2]

I believe all the verses but I notice you twisted John 15 about the meaning of fire
fire is figurative of hell

Impossible!! Of course you don't. The verses prove eternal security yet you stubbornly continue to believe that salvation can be lost, even though you have NO verses that clearly teach that salvation can be lost.

The verses I keep sharing prove that those who are given eternal life and the Holy Spirit SHALL NEVER PERISH. And you DON'T believe that.

why Jesus call heaven fire?

He didn't. You only presume He did. in SPITE of the evidence to the contrary.

If you think you can lose salvation, that would indicate that you haven't received eternal life and the Holy Spirit.

Those who HAVE SHALL NEVER PERISH. Never ever.

 

[Runningman]

Read Rom 4:4,5. When Paul mentions "work" without mentioning the LAW he refers to human effort that EARNS a wage.

Read Matthew 25:41-43. Jesus said that you need to do good works for those in need to avoid the eternal fire. So you need to readjust your interpretation of what Paul said in Romans 4:4,5 so you don’t create contradictions.

Mat 25:41 Then he will also say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed ones, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!


Mat 25:42 For I was hungry and you did not give me anything to eat, I was thirsty and you did not give me anything to drink,


Mat 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not care for me.'

 

[Runningman]

In an effort to get around the truth, people who teach salvation by works often try turn "not saved by works" passages into saved by "these" works (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law) but this argument is bogus.

In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "work of faith/good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Now which good works could a Christian could do that are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18)

So when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, we cannot dissect good works from the law of Moses. In Titus 3:5, Paul said that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, Paul said that God saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works.. so "not saved by works" is not merely limited to specific works under the law of Moses, but works in general.

Ephesians 2:10
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

If you were created to do good works and you refuse to do them then are you serving your master? Jesus said many things about those who are not profitable such as in the parable of the talents in Matthew 25:14-30.

Mat 25:30 And throw the worthless slave into the outer darkness—in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth!'