Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
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Your not wrong. Jesus was only sent to the Jews and Jesus did ignore the Gentiles at times. The Jews were in a covenant relationship with God. The Gentile nations were not bound by any covenant with God.
Gentiles were grafted into the root, which is Christ, at a later time. As the letter to the Romans explains (Romans 11:17).
Gentiles were equal to dogs in the Gospel accounts (Matthew 15:26).
Don't take it too hard, any Gentile is loved by God just as much as any Jew was. God had a plan which He executed regarding our salvation.
Gentiles were grafted into the root, which is Christ, at a later time. As the letter to the Romans explains (Romans 11:17).
Gentiles were equal to dogs in the Gospel accounts (Matthew 15:26).
Don't take it too hard, any Gentile is loved by God just as much as any Jew was. God had a plan which He executed regarding our salvation.
You need to follow the argument that Paul is conducting through the eleven chapters of Romans. That is a difficult thing to do. You have to constantly read the letter to the Romans and it takes some serious time. Before you will even start to notice the logical progression that Paul follows. We are not under the law but grace.
I do not expect many folk to ever get on top of the letter to the Romans. The letter to the Romans is probably the most abused letter, in the entire scripture.
Go ahead and cherry-pick verses, your not alone, most churches do exactly that.
To quote a verse like the one below and out of the general context, is a very serious transgression.
"Not the hearers of the law, BUT THE DOERS, shall be justified in His sight".
Here is the critical verse that any interpretation must negotiate. Paul is quoting from the Old Testament.
Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
If you can read that verse and accept what God has said, then your interpretation is a valid interpretation. If not, and you have a problem with that verse, then you do not understand the letter to the Romans. It is really that simple.
I do not expect many folk to ever get on top of the letter to the Romans. The letter to the Romans is probably the most abused letter, in the entire scripture.
Go ahead and cherry-pick verses, your not alone, most churches do exactly that.
To quote a verse like the one below and out of the general context, is a very serious transgression.
"Not the hearers of the law, BUT THE DOERS, shall be justified in His sight".
Here is the critical verse that any interpretation must negotiate. Paul is quoting from the Old Testament.
Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
If you can read that verse and accept what God has said, then your interpretation is a valid interpretation. If not, and you have a problem with that verse, then you do not understand the letter to the Romans. It is really that simple.
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Throughout the ages scholars have viewed the Noahide Laws as a link between Judaism
and Christianity, as universal norms of ethical conduct, as a basic concept in international
law, or as a guarantee of fundamental human rights for all. source Also, the United States
Congress recognized the Noahide Laws in 1991 when it passed the Education Day Bill:
“Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles
which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded;
Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from
the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws” CARM
and Christianity, as universal norms of ethical conduct, as a basic concept in international
law, or as a guarantee of fundamental human rights for all. source Also, the United States
Congress recognized the Noahide Laws in 1991 when it passed the Education Day Bill:
“Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles
which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded;
Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from
the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws” CARM
Reason it out...I do like your thinking.
My brother, Paul doesn't lay out a particular day of the week....and since most people do not work 24/7, they can gather whenever they like. Now you do make a good point.."If we work six days and rest on the Sabbath, it would be the best time to gather". And that's probably the very reason, the Jews gathered in the synagogues on the Sabbath. But...they didn't keep it as God told them to keep it...did they? And since they were already gathered, Wasn't it was a great opportunity for Jesus and the disciples to teach them?
Now the question, Are we still under Sabbath Law? For some, this is paramount to their teachings. But if it is an important part of our Salvation, why is it not mentioned in the passages below. Notice Jesus, nor his disciples, mention it as a sin anywhere in the entire New Testament.
No mention of Sabbath Law...Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” “Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”
(Matthew 19:16-19)
Again...no mention of Sabbath breakers...He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
(Revelation 21:7-8)
What do you think?
My brother, Paul doesn't lay out a particular day of the week....and since most people do not work 24/7, they can gather whenever they like. Now you do make a good point.."If we work six days and rest on the Sabbath, it would be the best time to gather". And that's probably the very reason, the Jews gathered in the synagogues on the Sabbath. But...they didn't keep it as God told them to keep it...did they? And since they were already gathered, Wasn't it was a great opportunity for Jesus and the disciples to teach them?
Now the question, Are we still under Sabbath Law? For some, this is paramount to their teachings. But if it is an important part of our Salvation, why is it not mentioned in the passages below. Notice Jesus, nor his disciples, mention it as a sin anywhere in the entire New Testament.
No mention of Sabbath Law...Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” “Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”
(Matthew 19:16-19)
Again...no mention of Sabbath breakers...He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
(Revelation 21:7-8)
What do you think?
Sorry brother, for missing you yesterday.
I agree...Grace is a combination of Love and redemption. But how do we receive the Love of God...according to Jesus?.....Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
(John 14:21)
Two questions...as per the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Who loves Jesus...Is it not those who keep his commandments?
And who does God the Father love?
I agree...Grace is a combination of Love and redemption. But how do we receive the Love of God...according to Jesus?.....Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
(John 14:21)
Two questions...as per the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Who loves Jesus...Is it not those who keep his commandments?
And who does God the Father love?
Context is important. Paul was talking to the Jews (Romans 2:17-24) about their judging of the Gentiles and then points them to their own law (standard of judgment) and hypocrisy and tells them that the doers of the law will be justified before God (v. 13). That leaves them out, along with everyone else. (Romans 3:22-28; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9) The standard they wanted to measure up to was the law. Paul was telling them that the doers of the law will be justified. So, obey the law, obey all of it, but if you don’t obey all of it, you failed! He tells them that the Gentiles who didn't have the law according to the knowledge of the Jews were instinctively doing the things of the law (verse 14) and will be judged accordingly. How much more so the Jews?
Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to measure up to the perfect standard of the law. They were hypocrites. This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter in Romans 3:28 that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law. *No one was able to perfectly obey the law (except for Jesus Christ). If you fail even once (stumble in one point), then you become guilty of all.
James 2:10, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." Galatians 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them." The Jews can be justified before God by keeping the Law, but he or she has to be 100% perfect. A person can’t fail even once--ever. But all have failed (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 1 John 1:8-10), that is why man is justified before God by faith and not by the works of the law. (Romans 3:22-28, Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9 etc..)
Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to measure up to the perfect standard of the law. They were hypocrites. This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter in Romans 3:28 that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law. *No one was able to perfectly obey the law (except for Jesus Christ). If you fail even once (stumble in one point), then you become guilty of all.
James 2:10, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." Galatians 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them." The Jews can be justified before God by keeping the Law, but he or she has to be 100% perfect. A person can’t fail even once--ever. But all have failed (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 1 John 1:8-10), that is why man is justified before God by faith and not by the works of the law. (Romans 3:22-28, Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9 etc..)
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I agree, it is prescriptive, but most people never get beyond (John 3:16). John explains what he means by the verse, in the verses which follow....which no one ever seems to Quote.
What does it mean to believe in Jesus Christ?
Many people only regard Jesus as the Son of God. That's great, but Jesus is also....the Lamb of God. And this is the focus of (John 3:16).
If you believe Jesus is the Lamb of God, how will you show you believe in him?
By using his sacrifice through the confession of your sins...
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
If you don't confess your sins, it shows God that you do not believe Jesus is the Son of God....and furthermore, that you are not a sinner in need of forgiveness,....If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8,10)
Now look at the rest of (John 3) along with (1 John 1). And you can see there, he gives a clearer explanation of what he meant by (John 3:16). There is so much more to believing Jesus is the Son of God, than the mental exercise taught by many churches. But again...don't take my word for it, confess your sin before God and see how God reacts. If there is no change...I am a Liar. But if there is a reaction after you confess sin, I am not a Liar..but one who tells you the Truth.
How does this prove my point?
If confession of sin is for the forgiveness of sin, and you feel that forgiveness after the confession, this proves your sins were not forgiven.
If your sins were not forgiven, how can you believe you are saved?
To be saved, your sins must be forgiven...
What does it mean to believe in Jesus Christ?
Many people only regard Jesus as the Son of God. That's great, but Jesus is also....the Lamb of God. And this is the focus of (John 3:16).
If you believe Jesus is the Lamb of God, how will you show you believe in him?
By using his sacrifice through the confession of your sins...
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
If you don't confess your sins, it shows God that you do not believe Jesus is the Son of God....and furthermore, that you are not a sinner in need of forgiveness,....If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8,10)
Now look at the rest of (John 3) along with (1 John 1). And you can see there, he gives a clearer explanation of what he meant by (John 3:16). There is so much more to believing Jesus is the Son of God, than the mental exercise taught by many churches. But again...don't take my word for it, confess your sin before God and see how God reacts. If there is no change...I am a Liar. But if there is a reaction after you confess sin, I am not a Liar..but one who tells you the Truth.
How does this prove my point?
If confession of sin is for the forgiveness of sin, and you feel that forgiveness after the confession, this proves your sins were not forgiven.
If your sins were not forgiven, how can you believe you are saved?
To be saved, your sins must be forgiven...
We love BECAUSE he first loved us
Unless your born again, You have no capacity to love God.
Once again, This is prescriptive, It says those who are saved, adopted children of God obey. Those who are not. Do not obey (see also 1 John)
finally. Once again, We have the requirement, While those who love God obey. They are still GUILTY according to the requirement. Because they still sin and fall short.
Unless your born again, You have no capacity to love God.
Once again, This is prescriptive, It says those who are saved, adopted children of God obey. Those who are not. Do not obey (see also 1 John)
finally. Once again, We have the requirement, While those who love God obey. They are still GUILTY according to the requirement. Because they still sin and fall short.
Ok we need to stop.
If you do not get past john 3. Then you most likely never actually recieved John 3 and had faith in what Jesus said.
I can say I believe John 3 until I am blue in the face. That does not make me a saved person.
I can claim I have faith. But if I do not have the works that Paul said I would have, that Jesus said we would ave. has my faith really saved me?
If you trust someone, You tend to do what they say (maybe not perfectly. But you will follow them by example) it is those who do not have faith that do not do what they say or act like them. They have no works. Because their faith was dead.
The point of copntention is not works. Or sin. It is faith or lack of faith.
People want to point to works, and lack of sin as the means, Thats dangerous because that is legalism. And keeps people from the truth.. We need to focus on a persons salvation. God will focus on taking that which he began a good work in and completing that wrk. Its not for us to judge.
If you do not get past john 3. Then you most likely never actually recieved John 3 and had faith in what Jesus said.
I can say I believe John 3 until I am blue in the face. That does not make me a saved person.
I can claim I have faith. But if I do not have the works that Paul said I would have, that Jesus said we would ave. has my faith really saved me?
If you trust someone, You tend to do what they say (maybe not perfectly. But you will follow them by example) it is those who do not have faith that do not do what they say or act like them. They have no works. Because their faith was dead.
The point of copntention is not works. Or sin. It is faith or lack of faith.
People want to point to works, and lack of sin as the means, Thats dangerous because that is legalism. And keeps people from the truth.. We need to focus on a persons salvation. God will focus on taking that which he began a good work in and completing that wrk. Its not for us to judge.
Your refusal to explain Paul's "not the hearers of the law, but the DOERS of the law shall be justified in His sight" in Romans 2:13 KJV and also explain "he that DOETH righteousness is righteous" in 1 John 3:7 KJV only serves to prove that your milk breath is as sour as that of those from whose approval you derive substantiation of argument.
Moreover, your stubborn insistence that the "wicked can partake of agape" in order to preserve OSAS from the destruction heaped upon it by Matthew 24:12-13 KJV when John plainly says agape is only demonstrated by those who keep God's commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV) which Paul says is impossible for the wicked (Romans 8:7 KJV) only serves to prove the worthlessness of your Biblical experience and education. I fear it will lead you to a Christless grave.
Moreover, your stubborn insistence that the "wicked can partake of agape" in order to preserve OSAS from the destruction heaped upon it by Matthew 24:12-13 KJV when John plainly says agape is only demonstrated by those who keep God's commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV) which Paul says is impossible for the wicked (Romans 8:7 KJV) only serves to prove the worthlessness of your Biblical experience and education. I fear it will lead you to a Christless grave.
Let's get something straight, friend: I don't cherry pick. It is you hyper grace antinomianists which do that, as evidenced by the collective refusal by you all to explain and harmonize the words of Paul and John on this issue, which I'm able to share but I prefer the Socratic Method used by Jesus to reach those who are deceived - the method which demands you use the brain God gave you to reason out of error into truth.
I'll give it another shot: What does Paul mean by "not the hearers of the law but the doers of the law shall be justified in His sight" and what does John mean by "make not mistake, he that does righteousness IS righteous"?
I'll give it another shot: What does Paul mean by "not the hearers of the law but the doers of the law shall be justified in His sight" and what does John mean by "make not mistake, he that does righteousness IS righteous"?
God set the day aside in the very beginning of the 4th commandment when He commanded you to work six days and then rest the seventh. A blind man can see that the demands of the first six workdays do not allow for the gathering of the saints for collective morning worship which the seventh day abundantly affords.