Alcohol - a world wide phenomena
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1Pet 2:9: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"
Rev 1:6: "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."
Rev 5:10: "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."
Prov 31:4: "It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:"
Prov 31:5: "Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted."
Lev 10:9: "Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:"
Isa 66:21: "And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD."
1Pet 2:9: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"
Rev 1:6: "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."
Rev 5:10: "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."
Prov 31:4: "It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:"
Prov 31:5: "Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted."
Lev 10:9: "Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:"
Isa 66:21: "And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD."
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The Statement/Query is:
God is love (Jesus) or God is love? (Satan)
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Hypothesis is:
Since God is love, God is Just/Merciful never violating either one of those attributes (Jesus) or
If God is not really love, God cannot be both Just & Merciful at the same time without violating either one, for instance, if God administers Justice (as in Lucifer/satan's case), God was not merciful, and if God shews mercy to human sinners, allowing them back into heaven (though Lucifer/satan was cast out of heaven for sin), then God is not Just (satan)
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Testable? is:
The earth and mankind was made to be the "cruc-ible" which tested, before all the universe, the character of God (Rom. 3:4; Psa. 51:4), for two positions now existed among all the beings in Heaven, and there was not a third unbiased position. God created mankind, the third unbiased position, to demonstrate the character and glory of God. Yet, satan could not let well enough alone, knowing that his case was losing, tampered with the test, tampered with the evidence. Yet, this too, was to work against the wiles of the devil:
Rom. 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Jesus declares (through his servant John, by the Holy Ghost) that "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16), and so came to demonstrate that perfect holy character of His Father:
Jhn. 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jhn. 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn. 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn. 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Jhn. 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
The government and character of God were "tested" in Christ Jesus.
For He was tested in the wilderness (Mat. 4:1-11; Mar. 1:12-13; Luk. 4:1-13), and found blameless as the spotless "Lamb of God" (Jhn. 1:29,36), while the character of satan was being revealed, as a liar, deciver, who would misquote the words of God for his own end, for his own glory.
The entire life of Jesus, was one of 'testing', and proving, being the precious silver and gold, in the fullness of the fiery furnace:
Heb. 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Psa. 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Isa. 13:12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
The most enduring tests, were Gethsemane and Calvary. The weight of sin crushing (as pestle) the earth (the Man, Christ Jesus) in the crucible (mortar), heated in the pure fiery wrath of God, poured out upon Him, and "tested" in all points:
Heb. 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
No sin could be found in Him, though tried unto the utmost. He was perfect. He indeed was love, as His Father.
Luk. 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Jhn. 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Psa. 85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.
God is Just and Merciful, tested, at the Cross. The heart of God was there tested before all, that none may ever doubt again, and thus sin cannot arise a second time. God was selfless, in giving up of His Son for those who were His enemies, and the Son in giving up His life, and the Holy Ghost in seeking not His own.
The other position, was that of satan, and through the same events, he too was to be "crushed" (Gen. 3:15; Rom. 16:20), by God's Pestle, the "Rod out of the stem of Jesse" (Isa. 11:1), for he was proved at the Cross (at the Crucible of the universe) to be a murderer, a liar, a sinner (Jhn. 8:44), and his time and power were immediately limited (Rom. 5:6; Rev. 12:10).
In the beginning, was the 'serpent', but having only one head (Gen. 3:1), and in the time of Jesus, he had manifested 4 characters, 4 kingdoms (Daniel 2, 7, 11), but there was more to come, in the final heads, and so fully manifest his wicked government and chracter, as a counterfeit light of 7 branches, 7 heads (Rev. 17).
Yet, satan has another argument, against the case of God, and it is found in attacking the character of the body of Christ, for he says, how can the head be perfect, yet the body still sins? How can "the seed" be perfect, if it bear imperfect fruit in His own people? How can Christ Jesus be sinless, and yet his own people be found sinners? The answer is in the Gospel itself.
The gospel, was to be tested, yet further, even in us. For God will demonstrate before all the universe, that victory over sin, and overcoming in all things, is reality in Christ Jesus, who provided all strength, almighty power unto His people, and all the universe may know the power of God's love to save from guttermost to the uttermost, for He will produce such a people as keep His commandments as Jesus had (and so God, will show what Divinity, taking the hand of humanity, will do):
Heb. 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
For God will finish the work:
Rom. 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
Rom. 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
Rev. 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
For the final fiery testing of the saints is about to come (Revelation 14:6-12), and will come upon all the world who profess the name of Jesus (Rev. 3:10, 17:12).
As Christ Jesus was tested, so must we be tested. What Christ was given, so we are given.
As God was tested, so sin is tested.
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I really do believe that part of your inability to see the plain meaning of some passages is demonstrated here in your reply to the verse Magenta posted.
The context is shared by each assertion in this verse. You must find the theme spoken of here with unity of verse, because they are placed side by side in Scripture. If you cut and paste and seperate them, you wil be able to slant their meaning and purpose. Thats call Eisegesis.
The context is shared by each assertion in this verse. You must find the theme spoken of here with unity of verse, because they are placed side by side in Scripture. If you cut and paste and seperate them, you wil be able to slant their meaning and purpose. Thats call Eisegesis.
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Any who claim that drinking alcohol in any form or amount is forbidden, is wrong.
If alcohol consumption were sinful in every instance, Jesus would not have miraculously
made over a hundred gallons of wine (oinos) for the wedding guests to drink.
Please do a word study of oinos. It means fermented wine, which is what Jesus made.
If alcohol consumption were sinful in every instance, Jesus would not have miraculously
made over a hundred gallons of wine (oinos) for the wedding guests to drink.
Please do a word study of oinos. It means fermented wine, which is what Jesus made.
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I have. The word does not inherently mean alcoholic. Why do you refuse a brother who comes to you with such information from scripture? I provided a detailed and thorough study at the beginning of this thread, and yet you have not once shown me Christian love (charity) by prayerfully and thoughtfully considering what I have to share from God in His word on the matter. I even cover in detail the wedding feast of Cana.
I will link here for you the study (PowerPoint) again - https://archive.org/details/drink-up-these-are-not-drunken-as-ye-suppose
If you do not trust the file (though the word of a Christian was given you that it is clean, and the reputation of Internet Archive itself on the line), use the following free resource to scan the link and file - https://www.virustotal.com/gui/home/upload
Or you can use your own personal antivirus, malware checker. You can ask your IT staff to do it for you or a close friend if you want.
I will link here for you the study (PowerPoint) again - https://archive.org/details/drink-up-these-are-not-drunken-as-ye-suppose
If you do not trust the file (though the word of a Christian was given you that it is clean, and the reputation of Internet Archive itself on the line), use the following free resource to scan the link and file - https://www.virustotal.com/gui/home/upload
Or you can use your own personal antivirus, malware checker. You can ask your IT staff to do it for you or a close friend if you want.
Circular logic, based upon the unproven a priori that your position on the topic is correct. Your position is not correct as I have shown and am showing. Even your own definition of "winebibber" is personally subjective, and not even based in scripture. Your definition is self justifying, a rubber ruler, latex theologically. It will stretch or shrink to whatever definition you need it to be.
I provided a thorough representation from Scripture on the matter of alcohol and drinking in this thread also. In fact, I was the first to do so. I am looking at the PPP right now, but it is a massive file and not in a very accessible or cohesive format. Does it want to give the impression that wine does not mean alcoholic beverage? Clearly in many instances it does. Even Solomon's wise counsel was not to not drink at all, but not to join those who drink too much. That point has been made multiple times throughout this thread, and other threads like it. Any who want to say that alcohol is strictly forbidden and a sin at any time in any amount are quite simply wrong. I am sorry if you find my saying so lacking in Christian charity. I am prone to be succinct in my responses, and that is unlikely to change.
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