Alcohol - a world wide phenomena

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Christians should drink alcohol ...

  • Never, it is forbidden of God at all times.

    Votes: 4 13.8%

  • Occasionally, it is allowed by God for festive, or social occasions.

    Votes: 5 17.2%

  • In moderation, it is allowed by God for each person depending on their situation.

    Votes: 22 75.9%

  • Only once in a great long while, and only for special occasions chosen by God.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • In any amount, at any time, for God placed no restrictions on the drinking of alcohol.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • ???, I don't know if or when God allows the drinking of alcohol, as I am still studying this out.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Oh, who cares what God thinks, Do what you feel is right for you, drink or not, up to you.

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • They can drink alcohol if and when they want, the Bible/God doesn't say one way or another.

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Can only drink alcohol when not in God's service or ministry.

    Votes: 3 10.3%

  • Can only drink alcohol when in God's service or ministry.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    29
S

Sipsey

Well-known member
#341
Sep 27, 2018
1,473
689
113
#341
peldom10 said:
...1, 6, 9....of what?
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Here we go;


Proverbs 20:1
1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Proverbs 31:6
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Isaiah 24:9
9 They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#343
Mar 13, 2014
42,550
17,022
113
69
Tennessee
#343
John146 said:
What is wine? What is strong drink? Both coming from the vine. No doubt regular grape juice is forbidden. What in the text is identified as grape juice?

3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.
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Without the chapter / verse reference I would say that this sounds like what is expected from someone who has taken a Nazorite vow. Even then, you can be released from such a vow after a period of time. Unless one is planning on being a Nazorite this passage does not apply. I can't really see how this applies to Jesus turning water into wine at Cana.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#344
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#344
tourist said:
Without the chapter / verse reference I would say that this sounds like what is expected from someone who has taken a Nazorite vow. Even then, you can be released from such a vow after a period of time. Unless one is planning on being a Nazorite this passage does not apply. I can't really see how this applies to Jesus turning water into wine at Cana.
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Yes, I know this is about the Nazarite vow, however, the passage is forbidden the one taking the vow from partaking in anything that comes from the vine. The passage describes that which comes from the vine. What exactly are the different things coming from the vine?

3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.

What is wine that comes from the vine?
What is strong drink that comes from the vine?
What is vinegar of wine?
What is vinegar of strong drink?
What is liquor of grapes?
 
S

Sipsey

Well-known member
#345
Sep 27, 2018
1,473
689
113
#345
John146 said:
Yes, I know this is about the Nazarite vow, however, the passage is forbidden the one taking the vow from partaking in anything that comes from the vine. The passage describes that which comes from the vine. What exactly are the different things coming from the vine?

3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.

What is wine that comes from the vine?
What is strong drink that comes from the vine?
What is vinegar of wine?
What is vinegar of strong drink?
What is liquor of grapes?
Click to expand...
Is this a rhetorical question, or do you really not know?
 
C

ChristianSubMissionary

Banned
#346
Feb 7, 2022
646
75
28
#346
tourist said:
Who funded the studies that you go by?
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God funded the only study that matters by the blood of Jesus, and if you study that carefully, you'll find the scientific method and the proof that alcohol kills, and it was written and published in the world renowned Diagnostic and Salvation Manual, called the Bible, Authored by the Great Physician Himself.

Have you ever heard, "The Bible is NOT a science book!!!!1!"?

No, the Bible is 'the science book'.

It contains all real knowledge and the science of all sciences, the science of Calvary, the science of salvation, the light of which, illuminates all other sciences. The scientific method is found at Calvary.

The Bible is also not a history book, but it is 'the history book', in which is the history to understand all histories, for it contains the life of the one true history of Jesus Christ, whom every man or woman ought to know for themselves.

Basic Scientific Method Flow Chart

Query/Statement
|
Hypothesis
|
Testable?
|
Demonstrable?
|
Repeatable?
|
Validated
|
Write Findings
|
Publish Findings
|
Share with World
|
Obtain the 'Prize'​
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#348
Jul 3, 2015
59,829
29,203
113
#348
John146 said:
Yes, I know this is about the Nazarite vow, however, the passage is forbidden the one taking the vow from partaking in anything that comes from the vine. The passage describes that which comes from the vine. What exactly are the different things coming from the vine?

3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.

What is wine that comes from the vine?
What is strong drink that comes from the vine?
What is vinegar of wine?
What is vinegar of strong drink?
What is liquor of grapes?
Click to expand...
Hard to miss that grape juice is not mentioned at all...
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#349
Mar 13, 2014
42,550
17,022
113
69
Tennessee
#349
ChristianSubMissionary said:
God funded the only study that matters by the blood of Jesus, and if you study that carefully, you'll find the scientific method and the proof that alcohol kills, and it was written and published in the world renowned Diagnostic and Salvation Manual, called the Bible, Authored by the Great Physician Himself.

Have you ever heard, "The Bible is NOT a science book!!!!1!"?

No, the Bible is 'the science book'.

It contains all real knowledge and the science of all sciences, the science of Calvary, the science of salvation, the light of which, illuminates all other sciences. The scientific method is found at Calvary.

The Bible is also not a history book, but it is 'the history book', in which is the history to understand all histories, for it contains the life of the one true history of Jesus Christ, whom every man or woman ought to know for themselves.

Basic Scientific Method Flow Chart

Query/Statement
|
Hypothesis
|
Testable?
|
Demonstrable?
|
Repeatable?
|
Validated
|
Write Findings
|
Publish Findings
|
Share with World
|
Obtain the 'Prize'​
Click to expand...
I have no idea what you are talking about. I never said that the bible is not a science book. Things are getting out of hand. I believe we are done here in this thread. Further debate is pointless.
 
C

ChristianSubMissionary

Banned
#350
Feb 7, 2022
646
75
28
#350
tourist said:
I am not defending or condoning the use of alcohol but pointing out what I believe to be a spiritual truth by the evidence presented in the bible.
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An entirely contradictory position, unfortunately. The position of practical hypocrisy (saying one thing, doing another thing). Don't take me wrong; that you don't drink alcohol, commendable, but they logic upon your part confused. It's like a united States soldier fighting in the Americas Civil War wearing the North's top, and South's bottom. You can only be shot at by both. Your theological and/or practical position is the most untenable, unsustainable, of all here.
 
C

ChristianSubMissionary

Banned
#351
Feb 7, 2022
646
75
28
#351
Magenta said:
Hard to miss that grape juice is not mentioned at all...
Click to expand...
Look up the word for liquor of grapes.

Num 6:3: "He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried."

H4952.

Then look up "liquor" in English:

"liquor (n.) c. 1200, likur "any matter in a liquid state, a liquid or fluid substance," from Old French licor "fluid, liquid; sap; oil" (12c., Modern French liqueur), from Latin liquorem (nominative liquor) "a liquid, liquor; wine; the sea," originally "liquidity, fluidity," from liquere "be fluid, liquid" (see liquid (adj.)). liquor (n.) c. 1200, likur "any matter in a liquid state, a liquid or fluid substance," from Old French licor "fluid, liquid; sap; oil" (12c., Modern French liqueur), from Latin liquorem (nominative liquor) "a liquid, liquor; wine; the sea," originally "liquidity, fluidity," from liquere "be fluid, liquid" (see liquid (adj.)). " - https://www.etymonline.com/word/liquor

So "liquor of grapes" is grape juice.
 
C

ChristianSubMissionary

Banned
#354
Feb 7, 2022
646
75
28
#354
.
Sipsey said:
Numbers 6:3-Strong Drink-
šēḵār: A masculine noun referring to strong drink; beer. It refers to an intoxicating drink and is usually understood as some kind of beer. Priests were not to drink it when serving at the Tabernacle or Temple (Lev 10:9). The Nazarite was not to touch it (Nu 6:3; Jdg 13:4,7,14). The drinkers of strong drink (šôṯê šēḵār) were none other than drunkards (Ps 69:12 [13]; Isa 5:11,22; 28:7; 29:9; 56:12). Such drinking causes violent behavior (Pr 20:1); kings should stay away from it (Pr 31:4); though it may be a sedative for the dying and bitter (Pr 31:6; Isa 24:9). It is used in a context of mockery by Micah (2:11).
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Are Christians Kings and Priests? Do they currently serve by faith in God's Temple made without hands?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#355
Jun 30, 2015
25,369
13,730
113
#355
ChristianSubMissionary said:
The scientific method is found at Calvary.

Basic Scientific Method Flow Chart

Query/Statement
|
Hypothesis
|
Testable?
|
Demonstrable?
|
Repeatable?
|
Validated
|
Write Findings
|
Publish Findings
|
Share with World
|
Obtain the 'Prize'​
Click to expand...
Calvary is not testable, repeatable, or falsifiable (and is only observable through Scripture). It fails three of the four requirements to be "scientific". Your claim is admirable but completely and utterly wrong. That you even make the claim and ignore the words you posted tells me that you didn't give this an ounce of critical thought.
 
C

ChristianSubMissionary

Banned
#356
Feb 7, 2022
646
75
28
#356
.
Dino246 said:
repeatable
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R u sure?

Gal 2:20: "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Gal 5:24: "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
 
C

ChristianSubMissionary

Banned
#357
Feb 7, 2022
646
75
28
#357
Dino246 said:
That you even make the claim and ignore the words you posted tells me that you didn't give this an ounce of critical thought.
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You believe you can imbibe natural alcohol (wine) in 'moderation' right?

Do you believe the same for spiritual alcohol (wine)? Imbibing a 'moderate' amount of the Babylonian wine (Rev 17; 1 Cor 15:46) is ok with you right?
 
C

ChristianSubMissionary

Banned
#358
Feb 7, 2022
646
75
28
#358
Dino246 said:
and is only observable through Scripture
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R u sure?

2 Cor 3:3: "Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart."
 
C

ChristianSubMissionary

Banned
#359
Feb 7, 2022
646
75
28
#359
Dino246 said:
testable
Click to expand...
R u sure?

1Pet 1:7: "That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:"
 
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