Anybody believe that Daniel's 70TH week has been fulfilled by Jesus - and then Stephen?

[Carry_Your_Name]

She kinda has a point - in a way, as harsh as it may sound, that is a good way to describe it...


I find it interesting to see someone I think of as being more 'conservative' using a more 'liberal' tactic like using 'anti-dispensationalist' to describe someone.

I am thinking that [at least] the absolute majority of those who do not agree with dispensationalism do not "hate" it so much as they love the truth and want to abide in it, share it with others, and rebuke/reprove false teaching of the scriptures.

Dispensationalism has subtly changed the nature of God and the nature of man. They say that man is under ”conscience, law, grace” or whatsoever in different “dispensations”, while my Bible says that God was, is and always will be, and man is always sinful, fallen short of grace and in need of salvation. The way I see it, this heresy is a marketing strategy, it dices and slices the Bible into different portions, and anybody can pick their favorite which they think suits them. They don’t need to read the whole Bible and see the bigger picture, they just need their own “dispensation”.

 

[BroTan]

(1) At the end of the 70 weeks. After the crucifixion, you can see it in Acts that the gospel was still mostly preached among Jews in the region; but when Stephen was stoned, that marked the total rejection of the gospel by Jews, therefore shortly after that Paul had the Damascus conversion, and he brought the gospel to the Gentiles, aka "nations, goyim", hence the "time of Gentiles", the church age.

(2) All those OT villains, Nimrod, pharoah, Saul, king Nebuchadnezzar are "prototypes" of Antichrist. King Solomon set a pattern of Antichrist as his heart turned away from God to his abundant wealth and affluent. Judas Iscariot was possessed by Satan in person. All I can tell is that these have all painted a portrait of what the final Antichrist will be like. They all point to the final Antichrist, who will be worshiped by the whole world as though he's the real deal.

(3) Jesus was anointed by the Holy Spirit at His baptism. At Pentecost, the church was anointed by the Holy Spirit. That's where the Body of Christ as the TEMPLE was anointed,

You really didn't answer the question, just cause more confusion to the point.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You really didn't answer the question, just cause more confusion to the point.

Then all I can pull off the top of my head is that the Bible has never stopped talking about Jews, Jerusalem and Jesus, He came for the Lost House of Israel first and foremost. Although the Beast and the false prophet are mostly written in Revelation, this satanic spirit of evil has always been around, we’re called to wrestle not against flesh and blood, but forces of darkness, remember? The Beast is the final incarnation of Satan, as Jesus was the incarnation of God. The last book is called Revelation for that reason. It reveals the forces of good and evil, and putting specific names and imagery on them. As for your last question, I don’t know what you’re up to since you answered yourself.

 

[ombowstring]

Please show me Scripture that states the anti-christ signs a seven year treaty with Israel.
Please anyone show me Scripture.
It is not there.

Rosenthal explains it in his book.

 

[GaryA]

Again...

How does the last part of verse 26 (after the colon) "explain or illustrate" the first part of verse 26 (before the colon)?

What is your answer?

Does not make sense, you say...?

That is because you are not properly interpreting the 'grammar of the language'.

When you learn to do that, it will make perfect sense.

Consider...

For just a moment, ignore the aside (skip over it) as you read the passage.

How does it read?

 

[BroTan]

Then all I can pull off the top of my head is that the Bible has never stopped talking about Jews, Jerusalem and Jesus, He came for the Lost House of Israel first and foremost. Although the Beast and the false prophet are mostly written in Revelation, this satanic spirit of evil has always been around, we’re called to wrestle not against flesh and blood, but forces of darkness, remember? The Beast is the final incarnation of Satan, as Jesus was the incarnation of God. The last book is called Revelation for that reason. It reveals the forces of good and evil, and putting specific names and imagery on them. As for your last question, I don’t know what you’re up to since you answered yourself.

Five times the bible set the time of the great tribulation at 3 1/2 Years which also is the time of the reign of the beast and the false prophet: 1 in Daniel 7:25;...time and times and the dividing of time. 2 Daniel 12:7 "times, times, and an half." 3 Revelation 11:2...and the holy city shall they tread under foot for forty and two months. 4 Revelation 11:3...and they (two witnesses), shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and three score days (1260 days), and 5 Revelation 13:5 "power was given unto him to continue forty and two month (3 1/2 years)."

Most theologians and writers ignore all the scriptures that set a 3 1/2 years times limit on the reign of the anti-Christ and the beast (which is the time of the great tribulations). They all say there will be seven years of tribulation; and they all use the 9th chapter of Daniel to try to prove it. It is also said by them that the ant-Christ is going to make a covenant with the Jews for the one week (7years), and in the middle of the week (after 3 1/2 years), he is going to break the covenant, and stop the Jews from sacrificing animals and pollute the sanctuary, then they go on to say that at the end of the week (7years), the Lord is going to come and pour out his wrath upon this destroyer. These scripture lets us know that the great tribulation will not start until the abomination (false prophet) gets there. The four other scripture we named earlier says he will only stay for 3 1/2years. The 9th chapter of Daniel is not talking about the false prophet, neither is it talking about the same time. Part of that scripture has already been fulfilled, even down to destruction (consumption) of Jerusalem and that which was determined has already been poured out upon the Jews, which are the desolate and not the desolator. It is awfully strange that people with great understanding of words do not know the different between the words make, and confirm "the covenant" with many for one week, not make a covenant with many. The desolate is one who is being destroyed, and the desolator is the one who is doing the destroying. When people make a covenant

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Five times the bible set the time of the great tribulation at 3 1/2 Years which also is the time of the reign of the beast and the false prophet: 1 in Daniel 7:25;...time and times and the dividing of time. 2 Daniel 12:7 "times, times, and an half." 3 Revelation 11:2...and the holy city shall they tread under foot for forty and two months. 4 Revelation 11:3...and they (two witnesses), shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and three score days (1260 days), and 5 Revelation 13:5 "power was given unto him to continue forty and two month (3 1/2 years)."

Most theologians and writers ignore all the scriptures that set a 3 1/2 years times limit on the reign of the anti-Christ and the beast (which is the time of the great tribulations). They all say there will be seven years of tribulation; and they all use the 9th chapter of Daniel to try to prove it. It is also said by them that the ant-Christ is going to make a covenant with the Jews for the one week (7years), and in the middle of the week (after 3 1/2 years), he is going to break the covenant, and stop the Jews from sacrificing animals and pollute the sanctuary, then they go on to say that at the end of the week (7years), the Lord is going to come and pour out his wrath upon this destroyer. These scripture lets us know that the great tribulation will not start until the abomination (false prophet) gets there. The four other scripture we named earlier says he will only stay for 3 1/2years. The 9th chapter of Daniel is not talking about the false prophet, neither is it talking about the same time. Part of that scripture has already been fulfilled, even down to destruction (consumption) of Jerusalem and that which was determined has already been poured out upon the Jews, which are the desolate and not the desolator. It is awfully strange that people with great understanding of words do not know the different between the words make, and confirm "the covenant" with many for one week, not make a covenant with many. The desolate is one who is being destroyed, and the desolator is the one who is doing the destroying. When people make a covenant

Yeah, all of those stuff about a literal third temple and a peace treaty is a false narrative, that doesn't exist in the 70 weeks prophecy, but unfortunately a lot of people are suckers for it. If you notice the writing style in the Bible, you can find a kind of repetitive language, if something's really, really important, it would be REPEATED many times in different verses. That's why I beieve that those FIVE mentions of the 3.5 year period is the same period, which originally comes from Daniel.

 

[RichMan]

Rosenthal explains it in his book.

A man's opinion will not do.
Show me a Scripture that proves the anti-christ signs a seven year peace treaty with Israel.

 

[ombowstring]

I strongly suggest that you read Rosenthal's book. You would learn a lot. I'm not going to do your research for you. I've started re-reading the book myself and will continue to do so when I have time. I'll tell you one thing I've already learned. The Rapture will occur right before the opening of the seventh seal some time in the second half of the 70th week.

 

[RichMan]

I strongly suggest that you read Rosenthal's book. You would learn a lot. I'm not going to do your research for you. I've started re-reading the book myself and will continue to do so when I have time. I'll tell you one thing I've already learned. The Rapture will occur right before the opening of the seventh seal some time in the second half of the 70th week.

I do not own the book and will not waste money to read one man's opinion.
My belief is based on what the Scripture states and does not state.
I do not need to "learn" from a man who does not know the truth.
I have spent 40 years looking for a Scripture that states the anti-christ signs a seven year peace treaty with Israel and have not found it.
If it is there, and you have red it, it is a simple process to point it out to me.
I must conclude you have not found it either and are simply taking a man's word for it.

 

[ombowstring]

I've already said what I wanted to say.

 

[RichMan]

I've already said what I wanted to say.

O.K., that is your choice and I respect it.
May God bless.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

How did Jesus cause sacrifice and oblation to cease in the midst of the 70th week?

Heb 10:26: "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Heb 9:28: "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

Heb 10:10: "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

Heb 10:6: "In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure."

Heb 10:8: "Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;"

Heb 10:12: "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;"

Heb 10:5: "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:"

 

[GaryA]

(26 depicts the death of Christ....cut off....the time stopped ...69 weeks of years...until the tribulation...which is the 70th week...thus...of Daniel)

Christ was crucified in the middle of the 70th week - which ended in 34 A.D.

Please read the web page linked to in post #2 of this thread.

 

[GaryA]

How did Jesus cause sacrifice and oblation to cease in the midst of the 70th week?

Please see my previous post. (#174)

 

[GaryA]

Yes, the specific term "Abomination of Desolation" is only quoted verbatim in 11:31 and 12:11, in 9:27 it's more like a "punishment of desolation for your (overspreading of) abomination; another place is somewhere in chapter 8 about the goat and ram vision, where it's mentioned that the daily sacrifice will cease.

Not every place in scripture where some form of the words 'abomination' and 'desolation' are found is referring to the AoD event.

Not every place in scripture where 'sacrifice' is caused to cease is referring to the AoD event.

You are correct about the general nature of the 'abomination' mentioned in Daniel 9:27; it is not specifically referring to the AoD event.

 

[GaryA]

It’s unbelief for many people to accept that “people” of the same Messiah would come to destroy the sanctuary.

There is no connection between 'Messiah' (verse 25) and 'people' (verse 26).

The 'prince' in verse 25 is a different prince than the 'prince' in verse 26.

 

[GaryA]

Prospectors love finding nuggets on their own.

A skilled prospector will find real nuggets instead of fool's gold...

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

There is no connection between 'Messiah' (verse 25) and 'people' (verse 26).

The 'prince' in verse 25 is a different prince than the 'prince' in verse 26.

We agree on the general conclusion that Jesus fulfilled the 70 weeks, which I very much appreciate, but I just can't reconcile with this. In the last verse there's only one Messiah the Prince, why should it be separated into two persons? And then go back to the Messiah in the next verse? I don't know what the original Hebrew says, but this just doesn't make any sense.

 

[GaryA]

We agree on the general conclusion that Jesus fulfilled the 70 weeks, which I very much appreciate, but I just can't reconcile with this. In the last verse there's only one Messiah the Prince, why should it be separated into two persons? And then go back to the Messiah in the next verse? I don't know what the original Hebrew says, but this just doesn't make any sense.

Did you read post #130? Did it make sense to you?

Here is a link to post #130 for convenience:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...s-and-then-stephen.204304/page-7#post-4787015