Anybody believe that Daniel's 70TH week has been fulfilled by Jesus - and then Stephen?
- Thread starter Carry_Your_Name
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^ Please also note that when Daniel prayed, they were nearing the CONCLUSION of the "70 YEARS" (which amounted to something like 69 regular years and 1 day, TOTAL... if I recall the number correctly... ascertained by means of "what king was reigning when").
[many people tend to conflate the issue of the "70 YEARS [captivity]" (early in the chpt) with that of the "70 WEEKS prophecy" (later in the chpt)... not saying you do...]
[many people tend to conflate the issue of the "70 YEARS [captivity]" (early in the chpt) with that of the "70 WEEKS prophecy" (later in the chpt)... not saying you do...]
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Completely DISAGREE (and there's that mis-information, again, about what "Dispensationalism" actually teaches... Not what you put in your wider quote, of which I only quoted a small portion, above ^ ). See my Post #114 as evidence of what they REALLY teach (contrary to what you've put to make them sound otherwise 
, but which is false info...)
Post #114 (note: completely UNLIKE what Beckie has suggested "Dispensationalists" teach!) - https://christianchat.com/threads/a...by-jesus-and-then-stephen.204304/post-4786866
, but which is false info...)Post #114 (note: completely UNLIKE what Beckie has suggested "Dispensationalists" teach!) - https://christianchat.com/threads/a...by-jesus-and-then-stephen.204304/post-4786866
More foolish talk against Dispensationalism. I have yet to see you show us some SERIOUS ERRORS in Dispensationalism.
For those who may not be totally familiar, Dispensationalism simply teaches that God has had (and will have) different administrations or stewardships at different times in human history. This is so obvious to the Bible student that it does not need to be stressed over.
THEOPEDIA
Dispensationalism is a theological system that teaches biblical history is best understood in light of a number of successive administrations of God's dealings with mankind, which it calls "dispensations." It maintains fundamental distinctions between God's plans for national Israel and for the New Testament Church, and emphasizes prophecy of the end-times and a pre-tribulation rapture of the church prior to Christ's Second Coming.
The real issue is that anti-Dispensationalists hate the ideas of (a) the Pre-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture and (b) redeemed and restored Israel after the Second Coming of Christ. These are both beautiful ideas yet for some strange reason some people just hate them.
For those who may not be totally familiar, Dispensationalism simply teaches that God has had (and will have) different administrations or stewardships at different times in human history. This is so obvious to the Bible student that it does not need to be stressed over.
THEOPEDIA
Dispensationalism is a theological system that teaches biblical history is best understood in light of a number of successive administrations of God's dealings with mankind, which it calls "dispensations." It maintains fundamental distinctions between God's plans for national Israel and for the New Testament Church, and emphasizes prophecy of the end-times and a pre-tribulation rapture of the church prior to Christ's Second Coming.
The real issue is that anti-Dispensationalists hate the ideas of (a) the Pre-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture and (b) redeemed and restored Israel after the Second Coming of Christ. These are both beautiful ideas yet for some strange reason some people just hate them.
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It makes perfect sense grammatically if you properly interpret the grammar.
Daniel 9:
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The words/phrases in this color are referring to Jesus.
The part of verse 26 in this color is an 'aside' - and has nothing whatsoever [directly] to do with anything in the rest of the passage - except as a "connected" historical note. In terms of the 'grammar of the language', it "stands alone and apart" from the rest of the passage. Nothing 'within' is associated with anything 'without'.
The phrase in this color is not associated with anything outside of the words in this color. Therefore, the word 'prince' cannot be associated with anything outside of the last part of verse 26.
The 'he' words in verse 27 refer back to the word 'Messiah' in verse 26 - they cannot refer back to the word 'prince' in verse 26.
The words 'he' and 'himself' both refer [back] to the word 'Messiah'.
The sacrifice/oblation part of verse 27 is not referring to 70 A.D.; rather, it is referring to the Cross and [the aftermath of] the veil being severed in two. (Mark 15:38)
It does designate/indicate Jesus as the one ... due to the [grammatical] fact that the 'he' words refer back to 'Messiah'.
Daniel 9:
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The words/phrases in this color are referring to Jesus.
The part of verse 26 in this color is an 'aside' - and has nothing whatsoever [directly] to do with anything in the rest of the passage - except as a "connected" historical note. In terms of the 'grammar of the language', it "stands alone and apart" from the rest of the passage. Nothing 'within' is associated with anything 'without'.
The phrase in this color is not associated with anything outside of the words in this color. Therefore, the word 'prince' cannot be associated with anything outside of the last part of verse 26.
The 'he' words in verse 27 refer back to the word 'Messiah' in verse 26 - they cannot refer back to the word 'prince' in verse 26.
The words 'he' and 'himself' both refer [back] to the word 'Messiah'.
The sacrifice/oblation part of verse 27 is not referring to 70 A.D.; rather, it is referring to the Cross and [the aftermath of] the veil being severed in two. (Mark 15:38)
It does designate/indicate Jesus as the one ... due to the [grammatical] fact that the 'he' words refer back to 'Messiah'.
Is anyone here aware of Antiochus IV Epiphanes as a prototype of 666?
https://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/miscellanea/trivia/no-man.html
"Antiochus IV (Epiphanes), the king of Syria, captured Jerusalem in 167 BC and desecrated the Temple by offering the sacrifice of a pig on an altar to Zeus (the Abomination of Desolation)."
https://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/miscellanea/trivia/no-man.html
"Antiochus IV (Epiphanes), the king of Syria, captured Jerusalem in 167 BC and desecrated the Temple by offering the sacrifice of a pig on an altar to Zeus (the Abomination of Desolation)."
R
When Israel returned to the promised land after the 70 years captivity, God said they would have to continue to pay the price of rebellion for 490 years. This would be completed when Jesus returned and ruled the world for 1000 years from David's throne.
Jeremiah 31 speaks of a new covenant that God would establish {please go and read the details}.
When God said he would establish a new covenant, it was a done deal. The only question is when it would be confirmed with the blood of a sacrifice.
God also said that after 483 years He would send the Messiah, the Prince, who would be cut off after three and a half years.
This was fulfilled at the baptism of Jesus when it was announced from Heaven that "This is my Son".
"HE", the Messiah the Prince, (Jesus) immediately began to confirm the new covenant with many just as verse 27 states.
If you will remember, Jesus only went to the Jews and instructed His disciples to do the same.
While Israel as a nation rejected the new covenant, many Jews accepted it.
HE, the Messiah the prince, would be cut off in the mist (near the middle) of the 70th week when HE went to the cross to seal the new covenant with His blood.
When Jesus died on the cross He said "It is finished". The new covenant was sealed with His blood.
With the new covenant non sealed, the need for the sin (animal) sacrifices was not longer needed or was it accepted by the Father.
To continue to offer sacrifices was an abomination to God because if was open rebellion against the new covenant that had been sealed with the blood of His son.
This abomination is what brought about the judgment of Jerusalem, the temple, and the nation being totally destroyed at the hand of the "people of the prince"( Vespasian's army under the comm and of his son Titus).
Daniel 12 speaks of 1290, and 1260 days remaining from the death of Jesus until He returns to rule from David's throne for 1000 years. This is the last half of the 70th week.
I believe the 1290 is the time of the anti-christ from the time he is identified (when he stand up after the head wound) until Jesus returns.
I believe 1260 is the time that Israel is in the wilderness protected by God for 1260 days and coincides with the time the anti-christ makes war on the saints.
The 1335 days is the time from the identifying of the antichrist until the the completion of the seals, trumps and bowls, with the seven bowls of God's wrath being poured out during the last 45 days of the 1335 after Jesus returns.
I am sure most if not all will disagree, but that is my understanding.
The point is that the anti-christ will come.
He will bring great tribulation.
Jesus will return, the anti-christ and the false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire.
God's wrath will be poured out on the wicked.
Jesus will rule from David's throne for 1000 years.
Jeremiah 31 speaks of a new covenant that God would establish {please go and read the details}.
When God said he would establish a new covenant, it was a done deal. The only question is when it would be confirmed with the blood of a sacrifice.
God also said that after 483 years He would send the Messiah, the Prince, who would be cut off after three and a half years.
This was fulfilled at the baptism of Jesus when it was announced from Heaven that "This is my Son".
"HE", the Messiah the Prince, (Jesus) immediately began to confirm the new covenant with many just as verse 27 states.
If you will remember, Jesus only went to the Jews and instructed His disciples to do the same.
While Israel as a nation rejected the new covenant, many Jews accepted it.
HE, the Messiah the prince, would be cut off in the mist (near the middle) of the 70th week when HE went to the cross to seal the new covenant with His blood.
When Jesus died on the cross He said "It is finished". The new covenant was sealed with His blood.
With the new covenant non sealed, the need for the sin (animal) sacrifices was not longer needed or was it accepted by the Father.
To continue to offer sacrifices was an abomination to God because if was open rebellion against the new covenant that had been sealed with the blood of His son.
This abomination is what brought about the judgment of Jerusalem, the temple, and the nation being totally destroyed at the hand of the "people of the prince"( Vespasian's army under the comm and of his son Titus).
Daniel 12 speaks of 1290, and 1260 days remaining from the death of Jesus until He returns to rule from David's throne for 1000 years. This is the last half of the 70th week.
I believe the 1290 is the time of the anti-christ from the time he is identified (when he stand up after the head wound) until Jesus returns.
I believe 1260 is the time that Israel is in the wilderness protected by God for 1260 days and coincides with the time the anti-christ makes war on the saints.
The 1335 days is the time from the identifying of the antichrist until the the completion of the seals, trumps and bowls, with the seven bowls of God's wrath being poured out during the last 45 days of the 1335 after Jesus returns.
I am sure most if not all will disagree, but that is my understanding.
The point is that the anti-christ will come.
He will bring great tribulation.
Jesus will return, the anti-christ and the false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire.
God's wrath will be poured out on the wicked.
Jesus will rule from David's throne for 1000 years.
Be careful how you answer someone.
You confused him by changing the context.
He was thinking in terms of the context of the wording of the passage - you answered from a much broader scope which was theological in nature.
You see how he responded...?
People may not always "catch on" to a shift in context away from the one they are focused on. If you must shift the context/focus, it is better to illustrate that to them in some way.
"Food for thought..."
You confused him by changing the context.
He was thinking in terms of the context of the wording of the passage - you answered from a much broader scope which was theological in nature.
You see how he responded...?
People may not always "catch on" to a shift in context away from the one they are focused on. If you must shift the context/focus, it is better to illustrate that to them in some way.
"Food for thought..."