I guess it depends upon what you mean/consider by free will? How do you know someone's will is truly free before becoming saved
and not after?
Doctrine of Unconditional Election
- Thread starter brightfame52
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I guess it depends upon what you mean/consider by free will? How do you know someone's will is truly free before becoming saved
and not after?
By the faith of Christ we believe. I pointed that out to you, in the verse so we're stuck on this point- no use continuing with it
It's not my place to judge your faith -- whether it be from salvation or not.
Jesus was the Word, but now he speaks to us through his written preserved word.
Umm, you tell it this to rogerg be cause, he is the telling you that salvation is process. If salvation is a gift then you needed to receive it my friend.Gift is either accepted or not John 1:12
FreeGrace2 said:
Please define what YOU mean by "fruit". Then I can answer.
What is clear is that you seem unwilling to answer the question.
Please define what YOU mean by "fruit". Then I can answer.
I wasn't asking to know what I believe. I was asking YOU what YOUR definition of "fruit" is. Why don't you just answer the question?
If you were following the conversation a little better, you would have known what I was asking.
What is clear is that you seem unwilling to answer the question.
This STILL doesn't answer the question of what YOU consider to be fruit.
Are you saying that unsaved people can't do good things? I see it all the time. Maybe you should get out more.
Where does the Bible say this? It doesn't.
The Bible says that man believes from his heart. Rom 10:10.
2 Cor. 3:4, Eph. 1:12-13, I John 5:1, 10-13, Act 16:31 1 Peter 1:21. Well, you really don't believe what the Saviour says or the scripture says. You believe what a man say. Sorry, I am bound to believe what the scripture says.
1 Peter 1:21
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
It does
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
No need to apologize to me, but just out of curiosity, doesn't 1 Peter 1:21 say "who by him do believe in God"? So the "your faith and hope might be in God"? is because of the "by him do believe"?
rogerg said:
By the faith of Christ we believe.
FreeGrace2 said:
Where does the Bible say this? It doesn't.
Among the formal equivalence translations, such as ESV and NASB, have "in".
So it seems the Greek can go either way.
By the faith of Christ we believe.
FreeGrace2 said:
Where does the Bible say this? It doesn't.
My interlinear has "of (in)". iow, the Greek word can be translated either way.
biblehub.com has 22 English translations and 50% have "in" and 50% have "of".
Among the formal equivalence translations, such as ESV and NASB, have "in".
So it seems the Greek can go either way.
Yeah, well that would then read "by faith in Jesus Christ we have believed in Jesus Christ". So, based upon that, we would need to have faith in Christ to have faith in Christ? Logical impossibility.
Thise verse too. logically equivalent to Gal 2:16
[1Pe 1:21 KJV]
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Not exactly sure what you're referring to but in Gal 3:16 and 1Pe 1:12 we are told that our belief is BY Christ's faith, not ours,
The case here is the redeemer Christ believe his Father. In fact Christ says in John 14:11, that we are to believe in Christ who believes in his Father as the Father is in Christ and no one is trying to question that. The emphasis of the context is the faith of those believers whom Peter wrote. Their faith might be in God. That settles. So my faith in Christ does not negate or deny the existing truth that Christ is the Saviour.
No, don't think so. Christ was deemed faithful by the Father because He perfectly fulfilled the role the Father had given Him, which
fulfilled the Father's promise to Abraham
[Mat 3:17 KJV] 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
[Heb 10:9 KJV] 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
The faith of Christ is a shorthand way of defining the gospel Paul preach. It refers to the works of Christ where Paul contrasted the works of the law which Paul rejects. Paul is expressing the essence of the gospel. In what immediately follows, he refers to the act of the person who accepts the offer by believing.