TONGUES false teaching.

[Aidan1]

The main issue at hand is not whether some abuse their place within the assembly, such as speaking disorderly = we agree and there is no debate.

Love is te Greatest = No matter what, Lo

The main issue is whether God's View from Heaven to His Body for His Gift of Tongues is pleasing to God and for us Today.

So, can you please look at this Scripture again and give a YES or NO reason based on all of 1 Corinthians.


i also am a realist like you = agree.

Improper use/abuse of speaking in tongues is covered in 1 Corinthians = agree.

The questions are


i also am a realist like you and do not accept peoples opinions or statements until i research myself.
This is why we must completely trust what God has said to us from His word without adding to it or taking away from it.
God addresses and corrects the misuse of tongues in 1 Corinthians, so we are protected from error = agree.

In light of Scripture, how do we answer these questions?
A.) God heals today only when they are documented?
B.) Tongues are for today only if they can be documented?

YES or NO to A & B

God heals today, according he want.
God is giving the gift of tongues according he want.

I do not deny this!
I questioning the teaching from some groups which teach that for speaking in tounges you have to be baptised with the Holy Spirit as an separate expierience then to the bornagain expierience.
And i questioning the teaching that speaking in tongues is for all believers available
These teachings i do not found taught in the bible.
So there is no base for me to follow such teachings.

 

[Pureness]

No, I want people to believe what the Word says and what Gods says in that Word. I posted Scripture of what God says, either you believe His words or you don't.



Deadly.





Then I could myself among good company, because the men who wrote it, taught it and believed the Word of God believed it was the inspired words of God Himself. And they took that extremely seriously.




There is nothing more realistic than Gods words to use though the Bible I can assure you. They are life and death. Within them is how you understand God/ Christ/Holy Spirit. I hope you go deeper in the Word and you'll be glad you did.

No matter how deep I go, every body is not going to have the same view, no matter how much whooping and hollering you do. Its best to just accept other peoples views and keep it moving because honestly your sounding a bit like a atheist dear trying to portray like you're a christian

 

[DavidTree]

Did you read my original post here:
https://christianchat.com/threads/tongues-false-teaching.196454/post-4737227
?

In that post, I clearly show how to do that.

Your post is not how we find out the truth concerning 'Speaking in Tongues'.

A.) God's Spirit is not subject to man and man's measurement.

B.) You and i are not Apostles, therefore we cannot override what is witten for us to obey/follow/believe.

 

[DavidTree]

God heals today, according he want.
God is giving the gift of tongues according he want.

I do not deny this!
I questioning the teaching from some groups which teach that for speaking in tounges you have to be baptised with the Holy Spirit as an separate expierience then to the bornagain expierience.
And i questioning the teaching that speaking in tongues is for all believers available
These teachings i do not found taught in the bible.
So there is no base for me to follow such teachings.

See Post #1,123

 

[kaylagrl]

AoG doesn't teach people how to speak in tongues from the pulpit, but in prayer meetings they certainly do it, as I have heard them do many times. It's a systemic problem. If someone says "speak, but not in English" in order to prompt you to start speaking gibberish, and thereby "prime the pump," then that's teaching people to do it. That's exactly how I got started.

If anyone is caught "teaching people" to speak in tongues, or force it, or make people spew junk they will loose their license I assure you.

I didn't "tar" anyone. If you read what I wrote carefully, you would see that I'm trying to clean up the P/C movement so that authentic gifts can clearly be seen as they were in the book of Acts. I'm sick and tired of all the claims that have no basis in truth.

Listen, why don't you let the good Lord clean people up and do what you were actually called to do? Win the lost.

This is part of my agenda posting here. Just because someone makes a claim, doesn't make their claim truthful. I'm just saying "prove it." And haggling over opinions about what verses of scripture means doesn't cut the mustard, as is shown by 56 pages of debating in this thread.

Any " proof" given would be like proof I would give any atheist. No matter what I would say they would reject it because they have made up their minds that God is not provable, you are no different. No matter what other posters say you will argue till you're blue in the face. You've decided to put God in a box, and you're not about to let him out. I don't really care what you believe or don't believe. You don't get to call someone a fake just because you don't believe. Faking is done with intent, and saying it is done with demon power as some claim is plain moronic. I have nothing to prove to you. Ask the Lord with an honest and open heart what is real and it will be made clear to you. Just as it was to several unbelieving friends of mine.

 

[kaylagrl]

No matter how deep I go, every body is not going to have the same view, no matter how much whooping and hollering you do. Its best to just accept other peoples views and keep it moving because honestly your sounding a bit like a atheist dear trying to portray like you're a christian

Ma'am you can throw out whatever insult or jibe you wish. We are talking about something very foundational in the doctrines of the church. The Word of God is written by the Holy Spirit under inspiration of holy men of God. That is foundational as God gave His only Son to save the world. You must understand this, the Word is not men's opinions. A bunch of people didn't just sit down and write what they thought or believed. The Bible is in perfect harmony. If you attend Bible school or Sunday school, this is doctrine, this is the very foundation of what we believe as Christians. God's words to us are in the Bible. The fact that you think I'm trying to trick you, or that it sounds like atheism is rather scary. If every view is correct, then none of them are right. Common sense tells you that. Once again, please study the Word, you have missed the foundation doctrines of what it is to be a Christian. If you're relying on man's opinions to take you to heaven, you're in some pretty serious trouble !!

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Why do you keep assuming I don't believe in miracles? Please stop judging, and start trying to understand what I'm saying.

I am pleased that You still believe in Miracles. I apologize if you felt judged by my questioning about if you did believe.

 

[CS1]

You mean what Jesus meant by power?

no sir, His witnesses

 

[Pureness]

Ma'am you can throw out whatever insult or jibe you wish. We are talking about something very foundational in the doctrines of the church. The Word of God is written by the Holy Spirit under inspiration of holy men of God. That is foundational as God gave His only Son to save the world. You must understand this, the Word is not men's opinions. A bunch of people didn't just sit down and write what they thought or believed. The Bible is in perfect harmony. If you attend Bible school or Sunday school, this is doctrine, this is the very foundation of what we believe as Christians. God's words to us are in the Bible. The fact that you think I'm trying to trick you, or that it sounds like atheism is rather scary. If every view is correct, then none of them are right. Common sense tells you that. Once again, please study the Word, you have missed the foundation doctrines of what it is to be a Christian. If you're relying on man's opinions to take you to heaven, you're in some pretty serious trouble !!

Okay, so what's your views on gays? How do God feel about that? Well as for me gays are human beings like the rest of us, so does that make me a nonbeliever? No that don't make me a nonbeliever, so again like I say people going to have different views on the good book dear.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Okay, so what's your views on gays? How do God feel about that? Well as for me gays are human beings like the rest of us, so does that make me a nonbeliever? No that don't make me a nonbeliever, so again like I say people going to have different views on the good book dear.

They are people, like all people are people. They, also like everyone else, is held to being born into Sin due to Adam in the Garden. They, like everyone else, needs to Accept Christ in order to receive Salvation. No one is exempt from the Judgement of God. There is nothing special about being gay, trans, straight, when we all are Sinners in Need of Christ.

 

[kaylagrl]

Okay, so what's your views on gays? How do God feel about that? Well as for me gays are human beings like the rest of us, so does that make me a nonbeliever? No that don't make me a nonbeliever, so again like I say people going to have different views on the good book dear.

Differing views don't matter. The Word is what matters and it's never wrong. Again if everyone has a different view, everyone can't be right. There isn't many truths, there is one truth. And that is the Word of God. There is one way. You can have all kinds of opinions, the Bible is our ruler, if it doesn't line up with the Word, it's wrong, period.

 

[Pureness]

They are people, like all people are people. They, also like everyone else, is held to being born into Sin due to Adam in the Garden. They, like everyone else, needs to Accept Christ in order to receive Salvation. No one is exempt from the Judgement of God. There is nothing special about being gay, trans, straight, when we all are Sinners in Need of Christ.

My point exactly meaning of course we're all sinners but that doesnt mean we think of the Bible any less

 

[Pureness]

Differing views don't matter. The Word is what matters and it's never wrong. Again if everyone has a different view, everyone can't be right. There isn't many truths, there is one truth. And that is the Word of God. There is one way. You can have all kinds of opinions, the Bible is our ruler, if it doesn't line up with the Word, it's wrong, period.

So you think everybody going to comprehend the bible the same? You really think that? I know a lot of people who believes in God and still questions certain areas of the bible that dont make them love God or the bible any less

 

[Heaven_Bound]

My point exactly meaning of course we're all sinners but that doesnt mean we think of the Bible any less

During a debate, I try to take into consideration about the difference between New Believers and long time Believers. A New Believer can read a Verse and think it means this, which is Fact, but as the years go by and their growth in God increases, that meaning to Verses will change to deeper more meaning. So during a Debate, you will get multiple answers to the same question. If it is a New Believer debating a long time Believer, the answers won't match up. But a New Believer can gain Knowledge from the answers to the same questions by taking what a long time Believer offers. It's a delicate situation. And many times, the long time Believer forgets they were a New believer once and did not understand what they now know.

 

[kaylagrl]

So you think everybody going to comprehend the bible the same?
You really think that? I know a lot of people who believes in God and still questions certain areas of the bible that dont make them love God or the bible any less

No ma'am, I didn't say that. Some have been on the road years, they're so much more mature in their walk than I am, or others. Some are babies. What I said is differing views don't matter. Comprehending changes as our walk gets deeper and long. All I am saying is our views must line up with the Word of God because those are His words to us.

 

[TDidymas]

Your post is not how we find out the truth concerning 'Speaking in Tongues'.

A.) God's Spirit is not subject to man and man's measurement.

B.) You and i are not Apostles, therefore we cannot override what is witten for us to obey/follow/believe.

B) What scripture reference do you have that commands us to speak in tongues? I dare say you'll find none at all. Rather, you'll find at least one that commands to keep silent, and that's when there's no interpreter. So your idea that I'm trying to "override" what is written is invalid.

A) Paul commands people to examine themselves, and tells the Corinthians that what is spoken should be evaluated by others. In what way is this "man's measurement" and the Spirit "subject to man"? If I have the Spirit of God, then why cannot I evaluate your expression?

But your response shows me that you think of yourself more highly than you ought, that you think of yourself on a higher plane than me, because you are suggesting that my evaluation of a tongues event is mere man's opinion, and that a P/C tongues event you assume to be God's Spirit.

So now, instead of discussing how to go about this evaluation, you're starting to show your true colors and your prejudice. Am I not speaking the truth here? Are you not demonstrating my previous statement that many who speak in tongues think of themselves above those who don't?

But my original post is actually the only way to prove out tongues. Linguists have the ability to decode any language, and they have done so many times. Consider ancient languages like Ugaritic, Cuneiform, Mayan glyphs, and Egyptian hieroglyphs. There had to be enough vocabulary and language structure to convey meaning. Only then could it be called a language. And "tongues" in scripture means "language."

Therefore, if tongues conveys messages because it has vocabulary and language structure, it can be translated, just like any language. If you trust the translations of paleo-Hebrew that was done by men, why can't you accept a translation of tongues done by men? It makes me wonder if you have a vested interest in keeping it secret, and keeping people in the dark about it.

 

[DavidTree]

B) What scripture reference do you have that commands us to speak in tongues? I dare say you'll find none at all. Rather, you'll find at least one that commands to keep silent, and that's when there's no interpreter. So your idea that I'm trying to "override" what is written is invalid.

A) Paul commands people to examine themselves, and tells the Corinthians that what is spoken should be evaluated by others. In what way is this "man's measurement" and the Spirit "subject to man"? If I have the Spirit of God, then why cannot I evaluate your expression?

But your response shows me that you think of yourself more highly than you ought, that you think of yourself on a higher plane than me, because you are suggesting that my evaluation of a tongues event is mere man's opinion, and that a P/C tongues event you assume to be God's Spirit.

So now, instead of discussing how to go about this evaluation, you're starting to show your true colors and your prejudice. Am I not speaking the truth here? Are you not demonstrating my previous statement that many who speak in tongues think of themselves above those who don't?

But my original post is actually the only way to prove out tongues. Linguists have the ability to decode any language, and they have done so many times. Consider ancient languages like Ugaritic, Cuneiform, Mayan glyphs, and Egyptian hieroglyphs. There had to be enough vocabulary and language structure to convey meaning. Only then could it be called a language. And "tongues" in scripture means "language."

Therefore, if tongues conveys messages because it has vocabulary and language structure, it can be translated, just like any language. If you trust the translations of paleo-Hebrew that was done by men, why can't you accept a translation of tongues done by men? It makes me wonder if you have a vested interest in keeping it secret, and keeping people in the dark about it.

A.) God's Spirit is not subject to man and man's measurement.

B.) You and i are not Apostles, therefore we cannot override what is written for us to obey/follow/believe.

Where did i exalt myself above you or Scripture here?

There is no higher plane then Truth and that Truth is His Word.

I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world. For them I sanctify Myself, so that they too may be sanctified by the truth.

Not once did i say "you must speak in tongues".

It is dishonest to add to a persons words which they did not say.

Return to honesty, love and peace in the Holy Spirit.

The Gifts of the Spirit were given by God, purchased by the shed Blood of Christ.

No one has authority over Scripture but God and HE does not lie, therefore we are protected as we abide in Him.

 

[TDidymas]

If anyone is caught "teaching people" to speak in tongues, or force it, or make people spew junk they will loose their license I assure you.

Teaching people to speak in tongues happens all the time in the P/C churches, and none of the pastors and elders do anything about it. It's a systemic problem, and has nothing to do with licenses.

Listen, why don't you let the good Lord clean people up and do what you were actually called to do? Win the lost.

Have you read the prophets and the NT? People came to Paul and told him what was going on in the churches, for example in Corinth and the Galatian churches. Paul commanded the churches to exercise discipline on those who were doing wrong. Ok, I get that one of the last statements in the Bible is a "live and let live" philosophy - "let him who is righteous be righteous still..." It is rather tempting to say nothing. But then why are you posting here? Why aren't you taking your own advice? In any event, I'm not the one doing the cleaning up, if that's what is taking place. It's just an expression. We all know (if we are knowledgeable Christians) that God is the one doing the cleaning. All I'm doing is pointing out that The Emperor Has No Clothes.

Any

" proof" given would be like proof I would give any atheist. No matter what I would say they would reject it because they have made up their minds that God is not provable, you are no different. No matter what other posters say you will argue till you're blue in the face. You've decided to put God in a box, and you're not about to let him out. I don't really care what you believe or don't believe. You don't get to call someone a fake just because you don't believe. Faking is done with intent, and saying it is done with demon power as some claim is plain moronic. I have nothing to prove to you. Ask the Lord with an honest and open heart what is real and it will be made clear to you. Just as it was to several unbelieving friends of mine.

Did you read my original post as I asked? It's here:
https://christianchat.com/threads/tongues-false-teaching.196454/post-4737227
Oh yes, I think you said you didn't finish reading it. Because what? It was too wearisome to you? Instead of judging what I say and jumping to false conclusions, why don't you examine it carefully and try to understand what I'm asking and why?

The only thing I've made up my mind about is that there is lots of counterfeit tongues going on, which P/C leaders actually do acknowledge. If you want to argue about that, go to them, since they're the ones in your camp saying it. But I've not judged any particulars as fake. I'm saying let's evaluate it and see. But you seem to get the idea that I'm calling your tongue fake. Yet, I called no one a fake as you claim. Is this something weighing on you?

Faking is done with intent

(your statement)
Counterfeit is not necessarily done with intent. I'm saying there are many deceived who are speaking counterfeit tongues and don't know it's counterfeit. I ought to know, since I was one of them. But if you have nothing to prove, then why are you debating about this? I think you have a vested interest in getting people to agree with your opinion on the matter.

As far as "asking the Lord with an honest and open heart what is real" as you put it, it was actually the Lord that told me that what I was doing was not authentic. It has taken me years of study and observation to finally see that modern tongues is largely the same thing, and not of God, and P/C leaders are starting to acknowledge that more these days.

 

[TDidymas]

no sir, His witnesses

Ok, let me point out that Jesus was speaking to His disciples, not to you. There may be an application to all Christians everywhere, but what we see in scripture is that not every Christian enacted the same witness or had the same gifts or power. Be careful what you assume about scripture, and understand that you have a bias, as we all do. What we do see in scripture is that every Christian has the Spirit of God, but not every Christian has the same spiritual gift.

But are you making a point about this? (then make it)

 

[TDidymas]

A.) God's Spirit is not subject to man and man's measurement.

B.) You and i are not Apostles, therefore we cannot override what is written for us to obey/follow/believe.

Where did i exalt myself above you or Scripture here?

There is no higher plane then Truth and that Truth is His Word.

I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world. For them I sanctify Myself, so that they too may be sanctified by the truth.

Not once did i say "you must speak in tongues".

It is dishonest to add to a persons words which they did not say.

Return to honesty, love and peace in the Holy Spirit.

The Gifts of the Spirit were given by God, purchased by the shed Blood of Christ.

No one has authority over Scripture but God and HE does not lie, therefore we are protected as we abide in Him.

Concerning your words: "It is dishonest to add to a persons words which they did not say."
Yet, you said "Where did i exalt myself above you or Scripture here?"
You added "or Scripture" to what I said, since I implied nothing of the sort. So will you confess your dishonesty and double standard?

It's possible I misunderstood your response. But my point is that there is only one way to prove that the tongues spoken is of God, and that is to translate it, which men can do, and which they actually do. It's no different than translating Ugaritic text or hieroglyphics. If the tongues convey a message, it can be translated. Why keep people in the dark about it?