Has the Gospel been preached in all the world?

[DLM]

so….. are you saying Jesus already returned ? The world already ended ?

So For instance this already happened or isn’t going to happen ?

“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that is all just spiritual d already happened ? I’m honestly not really
Following what your saying Jesus already came back ? This already happened ???

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:7‬ ‭

this already happened I’m actually interested in what your saying but I’m not understanding your position are you saying Jesus already returned ?

Yes

God NEVER made a Coming in judgment, in bodily form, EVERY TIME it was SPIRITUAL.

The bible tells us "The Day of the Lord" is "Judgment". "The day of the Lord" was never referred to as a physical, literal return of the Lord. "The day of the Lord" has always referred to the Lord's judgment upon a city or nation of people. It refers to a destruction from God. "The day of the Lord" and "the Lord riding on a swift cloud refers to judgment. God used one nation to overtake another.

Isaiah 19:1; Ezekiel 30:3-4 - Destruction of Egypt, Judgment fulfilled in 480 BC
Isaiah 13:1,6-9 - Destruction of Babylon, Judgment fulfilled in 539 BC
Zephaniah 1:4,7,14-15 -Destruction of Jerusalem, Judgment fulfilled in 586 BC
Amos 5:18-20 - Destruction of Israel, Judgment fulfilled in 722 BC
Matthew 21:43, 22:7, 24 - Destruction of Jerusalem, Judgment fulfilled in 70 AD.

Jesus came in Judgment in 70AD just like the father did in the Old Testament. It brought an end to the Old Covenant Age. But it was not the so called Second Coming or Return, because that terminology is not in the bible. When Christ makes another Coming in the future it will never be a Second Coming. The day of the Lord referred to God's judgment upon a nation of people. It was never a Second Coming nor a Second Advent and never will be because that's man's teaching not God's.

Jesus was given authority to judge in the same way as the Father. John 5:19-22 So, if Jesus was to judge in the same way as the Father, then again, it would be spiritual.

 

[soberxp]

so….. are you saying Jesus already returned ? The world already ended ?

So For instance this already happened or isn’t going to happen ?

“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that is all just spiritual d already happened ? I’m honestly not really
Following what your saying Jesus already came back ? This already happened ???

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:7‬ ‭

this already happened I’m actually interested in what your saying but I’m not understanding your position are you saying Jesus already returned ?

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-second-coming-of-jesus.193968/#post-4337271

 

[DLM]

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-second-coming-of-jesus.193968/#post-4337271

In the old covenant, a saint that died was said to have fallen asleep. In the new covenant we will not fall asleep. The reason Paul said "we will not all sleep" is it's for the saints of the promised resurrection. When Paul wrote this, the old covenant was still in place. It had not passed away yet. When Heaven and Earth (Israel and the old covenant) finally passed away, there would be no more falling asleep.

The Resurrection was for the saints of the Old Covenant and not those after 70 AD in the New Covenant. Jesus even said we will pass over from death to life. He did not say we would be resurrected.

John 5:24-25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. 25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Ya see, Jesus was speaking of a "now" not a future resurrection. That is why at the resurrection of Jesus, the saints who had fallen Asleep were raised to life. (Matthew 27:51-53)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes

God NEVER made a Coming in judgment, in bodily form, EVERY TIME it was SPIRITUAL.

The bible tells us "The Day of the Lord" is "Judgment". "The day of the Lord" was never referred to as a physical, literal return of the Lord. "The day of the Lord" has always referred to the Lord's judgment upon a city or nation of people. It refers to a destruction from God. "The day of the Lord" and "the Lord riding on a swift cloud refers to judgment. God used one nation to overtake another.

Isaiah 19:1; Ezekiel 30:3-4 - Destruction of Egypt, Judgment fulfilled in 480 BC
Isaiah 13:1,6-9 - Destruction of Babylon, Judgment fulfilled in 539 BC
Zephaniah 1:4,7,14-15 -Destruction of Jerusalem, Judgment fulfilled in 586 BC
Amos 5:18-20 - Destruction of Israel, Judgment fulfilled in 722 BC
Matthew 21:43, 22:7, 24 - Destruction of Jerusalem, Judgment fulfilled in 70 AD.

Jesus came in Judgment in 70AD just like the father did in the Old Testament. It brought an end to the Old Covenant Age. But it was not the so called Second Coming or Return, because that terminology is not in the bible. When Christ makes another Coming in the future it will never be a Second Coming. The day of the Lord referred to God's judgment upon a nation of people. It was never a Second Coming nor a Second Advent and never will be because that's man's teaching not God's.

Jesus was given authority to judge in the same way as the Father. John 5:19-22 So, if Jesus was to judge in the same way as the Father, then again, it would be spiritual.

wow Ive never heard such an interpretation I guess one has to become “ spiritual “ to grasp
It or something.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

In the old covenant, a saint that died was said to have fallen asleep. In the new covenant we will not fall asleep. The reason Paul said "we will not all sleep" is it's for the saints of the promised resurrection. When Paul wrote this, the old covenant was still in place. It had not passed away yet. When Heaven and Earth (Israel and the old covenant) finally passed away, there would be no more falling asleep.

The Resurrection was for the saints of the Old Covenant and not those after 70 AD in the New Covenant. Jesus even said we will pass over from death to life. He did not say we would be resurrected.

John 5:24-25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. 25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Ya see, Jesus was speaking of a "now" not a future resurrection. That is why at the resurrection of Jesus, the saints who had fallen Asleep were raised to life. (Matthew 27:51-53)

“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[soberxp]

In the old covenant, a saint that died was said to have fallen asleep. In the new covenant we will not fall asleep. The reason Paul said "we will not all sleep" is it's for the saints of the promised resurrection. When Paul wrote this, the old covenant was still in place. It had not passed away yet. When Heaven and Earth (Israel and the old covenant) finally passed away, there would be no more falling asleep.

The Resurrection was for the saints of the Old Covenant and not those after 70 AD in the New Covenant. Jesus even said we will pass over from death to life. He did not say we would be resurrected.

John 5:24-25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. 25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Ya see, Jesus was speaking of a "now" not a future resurrection. That is why at the resurrection of Jesus, the saints who had fallen Asleep were raised to life. (Matthew 27:51-53)

Both Enoch and Elijah were supernaturally transported or translated to Heaven before the ascension of Christ. These things predicted the coming of Jesus.

And as Paul said : not all we asleep.(here, means Elijah was supernaturally transported or translated to Heaven , cuz Elijah didn't asleep.)

These things do not contradict the following。

Jesus said No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. John 3:13

 

[DLM]

wow Ive never heard such an interpretation I guess one has to become “ spiritual “ to grasp
It or something.

I see the New Testament being mostly spiritual.

 

[Gardenias]

Some folks need a RE-DO at the cross!

When God asks for council of men please let us know if he called.

Followers of Christ don't have perverse interpretations and lopesided thinking!

HIS WORD TELLS US....NOT WE TELL HIM!

 

[DLM]

Some folks need a RE-DO at the cross!

When God asks for council of men please let us know if he called.

Followers of Christ don't have perverse interpretations and lopesided thinking!

HIS WORD TELLS US....NOT WE TELL HIM!

Do you care to share any scriptures about the topic?

 

[ewq1938]

Caught up - Harpazo does not carry the idea of physical removal.

Yes it does.

It can mean 1. to seize, carry off by force 2. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly 3. to snatch out or away.

When Paul was " caught up" (Harpazo) in 2 Corinthians 12:2-6 we know Paul remained on earth.

Paul said he was speaking of someone else and he said he wasn't sure if it was spiritual or physical.

Air has two Greek words Aer and Ouranos.

Ouranos means the upper atmosphere.

Aer means the lower atmosphere.

Paul uses "air" (Aer) in verse 17. This is the air we breathe. In other words One does not have to leave the earth to be in the Aer.

lol, he also said clouds, which are not on the ground unless one lives on top of the highest mountain.

Did Jesus ever teach about a Rapture?

Yes, in the Olivet discourse concerning angels gathering the elect which is what the rapture is. He also taught it to Paul.

 

[DLM]

Yes it does.



Paul said he was speaking of someone else and he said he wasn't sure if it was spiritual or physical.






lol, he also said clouds, which are not on the ground unless one lives on top of the highest mountain.




Yes, in the Olivet discourse concerning angels gathering the elect which is what the rapture is. He also taught it to Paul.

In 1Th 4:17 stated the believers will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. The word "meet" (απάντησις) only used three other times in the Bible (Mat_25:1, Mat_25:6, Act_28:15,). They all referred to meet the person(s) and immediately return back with the person(s) to their last location. Does it mean we will meet the Lord God Jesus in the air and immediately return back to earth?

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus said all prophecy would be fulfilled IN His Generation

No he didn't. He said one generation would see all these things, which included the second coming and the gathering of the saints. Those things haven't happened.

 

[ewq1938]

Hades is was also known as "Abraham's bosom" the faithful Israelite was said to be "gathered unto his fathers." it was not Heaven.

No, Hades was a separate place from the bosom, separated by a gulf. That's two different places. The bosom is another way speak of heaven.

 

[DLM]

No he didn't. He said one generation would see all these things, which included the second coming and the gathering of the saints. Those things haven't happened.

These are Jesus' words:


Matthew 24:34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.


Matthew 16:28 “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”


Luke 21:22 because these are days of punishment, so that all things which have been written will be fulfilled.


Luke 21:32 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place.

 

[ewq1938]

I believe His Coming in judgment has happened Spiritually just like EVERY Coming in judgment that took place, in the entire bible? Just because God was not seen, the events were, and history has been written to prove it.

Christ must be seen at the second coming.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Your "invisible coming" in past is not biblical and is the heresy of full preterism.

 

[ewq1938]

In 1Th 4:17 stated the believers will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. The word "meet" (απάντησις) only used three other times in the Bible (Mat_25:1, Mat_25:6, Act_28:15,). They all referred to meet the person(s) and immediately return back with the person(s) to their last location. Does it mean we will meet the Lord God Jesus in the air and immediately return back to earth?

Yes.

 

[DLM]

No, Hades was a separate place from the bosom, separated by a gulf. That's two different places. The bosom is another way speak of heaven.

I believe there was a good and bad part in Hades. The bad being Tartarus. I believe Jesus took the good part out of Hades at the cross and the bad part was tossed into the lake of fire in 70AD

 

[DLM]

Christ must be seen at the second coming.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Your "invisible coming" in past is not biblical and is the heresy of full preterism.

God NEVER made a Coming in judgment, in bodily form, EVERY TIME it was SPIRITUAL.

The bible tells us "The Day of the Lord" is "Judgment". "The day of the Lord" was never referred to as a physical, literal return of the Lord. "The day of the Lord" has always referred to the Lord's judgment upon a city or nation of people. It refers to a destruction from God. "The day of the Lord" and "the Lord riding on a swift cloud refers to judgment. God used one nation to overtake another.

Isaiah 19:1; Ezekiel 30:3-4 - Destruction of Egypt, Judgment fulfilled in 480 BC
Isaiah 13:1,6-9 - Destruction of Babylon, Judgment fulfilled in 539 BC
Zephaniah 1:4,7,14-15 -Destruction of Jerusalem, Judgment fulfilled in 586 BC
Amos 5:18-20 - Destruction of Israel, Judgment fulfilled in 722 BC

Matthew 21:43, 22:7, 24 - Destruction of Jerusalem, Judgment fulfilled in 70 AD.

Jesus came in Judgment in 70AD just like the father did in the Old Testament. It brought an end to the Old Covenant Age. But it was not the so called Second Coming or Return, because that terminology is not in the bible. When Christ makes another Coming in the future it will never be a Second Coming. The day of the Lord referred to God's judgment upon a nation of people. It was never a Second Coming nor a Second Advent and never will be because that's man's teaching not God's.

Jesus was given authority to judge in the same way as the Father. John 5:19-22 So, if Jesus was to judge in the same way as the Father, then again, it would be spiritual.

 

[DLM]

Yes.

That makes no sense sorry

 

[ewq1938]

I believe there was a good and bad part in Hades.

That isn't true. Hades is bad place, bosom is good place. The two places are separated. You are showing your confusion by claiming there is a good place in Hades. Total confusion.