How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[TheDivineWatermark]

[to ADD to my "P.S." from my last post (ran out of EDIT time)]

1 Corinthians 15 -

The Resurrection of Christ

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

[...]

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

 

[DavidTree]

Right! And now if you would only get it....

Laura, you are the one fighting against His words thru unbelief.

All the Saints who have died in Christ are with Christ now for Christ made the Way OPEN for us.

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying:

“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

 

[DavidTree]

[to ADD to my "P.S." from my last post (ran out of EDIT time)]

1 Corinthians 15 -

The Resurrection of Christ

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

[...]

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Maybe you can help Laura out who believes in the doctrine of 'soul sleep' - unless you do also???

i think you said you believe Paul's words = 2 Cor 5:8 = YES/NO?

 

[Laura798]

Laura, you are the one fighting against His words thru unbelief.

All the Saints who have died in Christ are with Christ now for Christ made the Way OPEN for us.

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying:

“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Actually David you are--I sent you the 4 posts that I made which clearly show we cannot go to heaven before the judgment--and you are ignoring all of them--and if anyone is fighting the truth it is you.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Twisting Scripture Brother is sin. Why do you fight against the words of the LORD where the dead in Christ are FIRST to RISE.

I do not disagree that Scripture states "the dead in Christ shall RISE first"... meaning, they'll be RESURRECTED from the dead (bodily)... and "RESURRECTION" means: "TO STAND AGAIN [on the earth]"... It does NOT have the meaning "CAUGHT UP" as you seem to be equating it to.


They will "RISE first" just before we'll be "caught up [/snatched] TOGETHER [/AT THE SAME TIME] WITH them"


[the VERB and the ADVERB must be attached; the "caught up" action is CONNECTED with the word "TOGETHER" which means "AT THE SAME TIME"--This grammatically requires that the "CAUGHT UP" action happens for BOTH at the same time!]



The dead in Christ aren't RAPTURED / CAUGHT UP first before the "we which are ALIVE and remain" are; NO! The "caught up" occurs "TOGETHER"... that's what the text states. They "RISE" first (from the dead / from their graves); i.e. are "RESURRECTED [/ 'to stand again']"

 

[Laura798]

Maybe you can help Laura out who believes in the doctrine of 'soul sleep' - unless you do also???

i think you said you believe Paul's words = 2 Cor 5:8 = YES/NO?

So I guess you didn't see the 25+ verses that SAY we "sleep" in death? Never mind. This is beyond pointless....

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[...] Laura out who believes in the doctrine of 'soul sleep' - unless you do also???

You're apparently not reading what I've already put??

If you'd read my posts carefully, you would not be asking what you've asked me in the bold ^ .







[I don't think anyone really likes typing the same thing over and over again just to address a point one has already spelled out... *sigh*]

 

[Friend]

Dear Friend, pre-trib never came out of the mouth of God - never mentioned in Scripture = not once.

Therefore, the Word says it is a Lie because it contradicts directly what the Word does say.

So the path of pre-trib must "add to and take away from God's words" in order to be spoken and believed.

This is a curved, twisting path that builds error upon error for it must because it is never found in Scripture.

But there is "After these thing" two times here and six more time as we advance into the future.

And the voice here is sounding like that of a trumpet. and its saying “Come up here"

You did just this in your Post #5,270

Rev 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first (((voice))) which I had heard, (like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here,) and I will show you what must take place after these things.”

So we call it God's "Simulator for the Rapture". Because He's showing it to us, but it has not happened yet; So that we would know the chronology. There is chronology in everything that God Does. Read the account of God restoring a dark, formless, and void earth. The details are specific, and therefore important to God.

 

[DavidTree]

Rev 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first (((voice))) which I had heard, (like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here,) and I will show you what must take place after these things.”

So we call it God's "Simulator for the Rapture". Because He's showing it to us, but it has not happened yet; So that we would know the chronology. There is chronology in everything that God Does. Read the account of God restoring a dark, formless, and void earth. The details are specific, and therefore important to God.

What was the message that Christ repeated to the Churches?

 

[DavidTree]

You're apparently not reading what I've already put??

If you'd read my posts carefully, you would not be asking what you've asked me in the bold ^ .




[I don't think anyone really likes typing the same thing over and over again just to address a point one has already spelled out... *sigh*]

Forgive me Brother, hectic week as my father-in-law had emergency surgery and would of died had not prayers been offered up for his return. So i have been taking care of him today.

I believe you said that you agree with Scripture that when we who are in Christ die we go to be with the Lord - YES
In the first few months of my salvation and reading the Bible i believed that when we died you just went to sleep.
UNTIL i read more of the Bible and understood fully that we go right to the Lord after death.

 

[DavidTree]

So I guess you didn't see the 25+ verses that SAY we "sleep" in death? Never mind. This is beyond pointless....

The term Sleep in Death is referring to the Physical Bodies of the Dead that SLEEP in the EARTH.

Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joseph, David and ALL who died in the LORD = their bones are asleep in the earth.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

 

[ewq1938]

So we call it God's "Simulator for the Rapture". Because He's showing it to us, but it has not happened yet; So that we would know the chronology. There is chronology in everything that God Does. Read the account of God restoring a dark, formless, and void earth. The details are specific, and therefore important to God.

John was not changed into an immortal before being brought upwards. The one and only actual rapture is when a group of mortal humans are changed into immortals then brought up to the clouds, not to heaven.

 

[GaryA]

Unbelievable that will ALL the verses I've given -- people STILL isolate scripture and ignore all the rest that clearly states we will NOT receive our immortal bodies UNTIL Christ' return! That we CANNOT stand before God as some disembodied spirit before the resurrection--why would it even be called 'resurrection'--we CERTAINLY don't get our old bodies! It is our SOULS that are resurrected, not our decrepit, decayed body, and bones--sheesh and double sheesh....

So - are you suggesting that the "souls under the altar" are post-resurrection?

How are they able to cry out to the Lord if they are 'asleep'?

In the context of Revelation 6, where is the altar?

 

[Friend]

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God,
and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.



"will not precede" nullifies "at the same time"

"the dead in Christ rise FIRST" nullifies "at the same time"

"After that, we who are alive and remain are caught up" nullifies "at the same"

Now if you want to say that immediately after the resurrection the rapture will occur = AMEN

They are going to meet us in the sky. We go up into the clouds above the earth, and they are coming from the throne room in the third heaven... But all of this is on the thread in great detail... And for that matter if one is willing to judge correctly between you and me they will read everything for themselves, rather than a fault finder ruling in the darkness. But here we go; I will take the time to give a full explanation, as per your question. But for everyone else I will say this about you, that you are trying to bury what is (by far) more important.

All the elect are responding to the trumpet; When John arrives in the throne room; neither the Lamb, nor the Seven Spirits are there. The Rapture simulator is indicative of John going up at the same time the Lamb and the Seven Spirits are going down. They will be meeting with us in the clouds above the earth, before all of us ascend: therefore in front of the throne. But before we enter the throne room; John, who is the observer, sees and hears the lighting and thunder coming out of the throne (and when looking) It's then that he sees the Seven Spirits of God in front of the Throne. There is no one worth on earth, under the earth, or in the heavens, because everyone who is worthy is in the throne room, all the unrighteous were left behind to practice lawlessness, just like they have always been doing.

With everyone in the throne we FIRSTLY receive our (Kingdom of heaven) The kingdom offered to us was not a kingdom forged with the iron and clay. Initially, Our kingdom does not relate to flesh and blood conflict that is why the Harlot's cup is shown to be full of blood. The Jews have never been on a world wide assault on the nations, never insisting we take up Judaism or otherwise face some consequence. The Jews are absent of any history of profiteering while crossing all the oceans on merchant/military vessels, (((which amounted to cutting a deal with the beasts of the sea or they were going to take it anyway; that is by means of her "Secular Arm".)))

BUT ENOUGH OF THIS
HERE IS A NEW ONE!!! ​

 

[Laura798]

What is buried in David's Tomb?

Where are the Saints that the LORD brings with Him from Heaven???

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that:
God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen/died asleep in Him.

And you're missing a small but important key in the verse. It is not Jesus bringing ,it is God bringing through Jesus those who have fallen asleep--it says "through Jesus, God will bring us"--this is at the resurrection when we are caught up together in the air!

For example, a father tells his child to go bring his friend along with them to the fair---the father then takes them together to the fair--Christ is not bringing believers with him from heaven, we are going together with him at the resurrection!

"And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."--Matthew 23:31

"…16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.…1st Thessalonians 4:17

"…51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.…"--1 Corinthians 15:52

"…41The sun has one degree of splendor, the moon another, and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. 42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead: What is sown is perishable; it is raised imperishable. 43It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.…" 1st Corinthians 15:42
"“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."--Matthew 25

"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is."--1st John 3:2

"10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."--1st Thessalonians 1:10

"But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him."--1st Corinthians 15:23

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live."--John 5:25


Scripture never contradicts scripture--again I say it is in the isolation of verses that false doctrine originates--and the misunderstanding as you have here. You have made three mistakes. 1. You have isolated verses 2. You have not compared scripture against scripture 3. You have not, as the Bereans did, studied scripture for yourself to see if what you've been taught is true.

 

[Laura798]

So - are you suggesting that the "souls under the altar" are post-resurrection?

How are they able to cry out to the Lord if they are 'asleep'?

In the context of Revelation 6, where is the altar?

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times--it is in the isolation of verses that ALL false doctrine originates--you need to read my posts Gary, before responding--it's like jumping in the middle of a conversation and missing what was said and then chiming in. Believers need to learn to test scripture against scripture--if it seems to say one thing, but then something else in another verse then read other verses to get to the TRUTH.

 

[Friend]

pre-trib is disinformation from satan because God never said it - never

Yes but God Shows the Rapture before the 666 inquisition begins

 

[Laura798]

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times--it is in the isolation of verses that ALL false doctrine originates--you need to read my posts Gary, before responding--it's like jumping in the middle of a conversation and missing what was said and then chiming in. Believers need to learn to test scripture against scripture--if it seems to say one thing, but then something else in another verse then read other verses to get to the TRUTH.

PS Why not go and read all the literal verses before trying to guess at Revelation -- the most mysterious and symbolic book in all of scripture.--it will be a whole lot easier! It's like some of you want to drive on the uncharted dirt road and wind around here and there instead of getting on a clearly marked and smooth paved road--you're just making it that much harder on yourselves--learn the literal first before trying to figure out the figurative. (though some of you seem clueless what the difference is between the two)

 

[DavidTree]

They are going to meet us in the sky. We go up into the clouds above the earth, and they are coming from the throne room in the third heaven... But all of this is on the thread in great detail... And for that matter if one is willing to judge correctly between you and me they will read everything for themselves, rather than a fault finder ruling in the darkness. But here we go; I will take the time to give a full explanation, as per your question. But for everyone else I will say this about you, that you are trying to bury what is (by far) more important.

All the elect are responding to the trumpet; When John arrives in the throne room; neither the Lamb, nor the Seven Spirits are there. The Rapture simulator is indicative of John going up at the same time the Lamb and the Seven Spirits are going down. They will be meeting with us in the clouds above the earth, before all of us ascend: therefore in front of the throne. But before we enter the throne room; John, who is the observer, sees and hears the lighting and thunder coming out of the throne (and when looking) It's then that he sees the Seven Spirits of God in front of the Throne. There is no one worth on earth, under the earth, or in the heavens, because everyone who is worthy is in the throne room, all the unrighteous were left behind to practice lawlessness, just like they have always been doing.

With everyone in the throne we FIRSTLY receive our (Kingdom of heaven) The kingdom offered to us was not a kingdom forged with the iron and clay. Initially, Our kingdom does not relate to flesh and blood conflict that is why the Harlot's cup is shown to be full of blood. The Jews have never been on a world wide assault on the nations, never insisting we take up Judaism or otherwise face some consequence. The Jews are absent of any history of profiteering while crossing all the oceans on merchant/military vessels, (((which amounted to cutting a deal with the beasts of the sea or they were going to take it anyway; that is by means of her "Secular Arm".)))

BUT ENOUGH OF THIS
HERE IS A NEW ONE!!! ​

Nice story but it there is no pre-trib rapture any where in Scripture and definitely not in Revelation.

What was the message from the LORD to the Churches in Revelation?

Here, i will show you:
Rev 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’
Rev 2:26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—
Rev 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
Rev 3:5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Rev 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
Rev 3:21To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Rev 3:22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Rev 22: 6-7 Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.


Rev 22: 7“ Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book

Rev 22: “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches."

Turn away from the lie of pre-trib = it never came out of the Mouth of God.

Peace and Sanctification TRUTH = Thy WORD is TRUTH = Gospel of John chapter 17 = Read it.

 

[DavidTree]

And you're missing a small but important key in the verse. It is not Jesus bringing ,it is God bringing through Jesus those who have fallen asleep--it says "through Jesus, God will bring us"--this is at the resurrection when we are caught up together in the air!

For example, a father tells his child to go bring his friend along with them to the fair---the father then takes them together to the fair--Christ is not bringing believers with him from heaven, we are going together with him at the resurrection!

"And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."--Matthew 23:31

"…16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.…1st Thessalonians 4:17

"…51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.…"--1 Corinthians 15:52

"…41The sun has one degree of splendor, the moon another, and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. 42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead: What is sown is perishable; it is raised imperishable. 43It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.…" 1st Corinthians 15:42
"“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."--Matthew 25

"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is."--1st John 3:2

"10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."--1st Thessalonians 1:10

"But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him."--1st Corinthians 15:23

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live."--John 5:25


Scripture never contradicts scripture--again I say it is in the isolation of verses that false doctrine originates--and the misunderstanding as you have here. You have made three mistakes. 1. You have isolated verses 2. You have not compared scripture against scripture 3. You have not, as the Bereans did, studied scripture for yourself to see if what you've been taught is true.

God will BRING WITH JESUS those who have died in HIM

with
σὺν (syn)
Preposition
Strong's Greek 4862: With. A primary preposition denoting union; with or together.

Laura, We love YOU = peace comes when you stop fighting against the Truth.