How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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The Scriptures you quote are BEAUTIFUL and TRUE = AMEN and AMEN = THANK YOU for them = AMEN
Your ending paragraph: "This takes everything full circle; with the Revelation of our Lord providing the simulator of the Rapture, passing what remains of us to our heavenly dwelling. (Therefore, the sounding of the voice like a trumpet) sets in motion John's ascent into the throne room; even the (future) ascent of those who will be alive on earth (as with John we are suddenly in Spirit) even (in the future) our Lord descending with the brethren who are now before the throne; all of us meeting in the clouds before ascending to the throne room. This is why there is no signs of the torches of fire, nor that of the lamb, until (shortly after) John arrives; which comprehends the reception being preceded by lightning and thunder, revealing Seven Lamps of Fire having overcome, with the Lord walking among us, ready to take our throne. "
You violated Revelation 22:18-19
i cannot respond now as i have to go.
We can share again later = Please read Deut 4:1-2 and Proverbs 30:5-6 and Rev 2:18-19 and 1 John 2:14-19
Review the Prophets Enoch Noah, Daniel, Job and Elijah who rebuke the Lie of any 'pre-trib' rapture = PEACE
Your ending paragraph: "This takes everything full circle; with the Revelation of our Lord providing the simulator of the Rapture, passing what remains of us to our heavenly dwelling. (Therefore, the sounding of the voice like a trumpet) sets in motion John's ascent into the throne room; even the (future) ascent of those who will be alive on earth (as with John we are suddenly in Spirit) even (in the future) our Lord descending with the brethren who are now before the throne; all of us meeting in the clouds before ascending to the throne room. This is why there is no signs of the torches of fire, nor that of the lamb, until (shortly after) John arrives; which comprehends the reception being preceded by lightning and thunder, revealing Seven Lamps of Fire having overcome, with the Lord walking among us, ready to take our throne. "
You violated Revelation 22:18-19
i cannot respond now as i have to go.
We can share again later = Please read Deut 4:1-2 and Proverbs 30:5-6 and Rev 2:18-19 and 1 John 2:14-19
Review the Prophets Enoch Noah, Daniel, Job and Elijah who rebuke the Lie of any 'pre-trib' rapture = PEACE
We are before the throne even now FRIEND - and you are still here on earth and will remain here on earth Until His Coming.
Should you not die before then - amen.
Instead of seeking to support a certain view = challenge that view to the entire Body of Scripture.
Review what i shared in Post 5,262
my last call back to you for now = I HAVE to GO help my sick Father in Law = PLEASE Pray for Morris who is a Jew and is dying and needs His Messiah = Can i count on you for that???
PLEASE pray for the Holy Spirit to speak thru me with Grace and Favor for Morris.........................
Should you not die before then - amen.
Instead of seeking to support a certain view = challenge that view to the entire Body of Scripture.
Review what i shared in Post 5,262
my last call back to you for now = I HAVE to GO help my sick Father in Law = PLEASE Pray for Morris who is a Jew and is dying and needs His Messiah = Can i count on you for that???
PLEASE pray for the Holy Spirit to speak thru me with Grace and Favor for Morris.........................
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You are say we are all in front of the throne NOW!!!! Jesus was going to the throne room and He Himself said that His Apostles could not yet go where he was going....
Jhn 13:36 Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered, "Where I go, you cannot follow Me now; but you will follow later."
If your willing to acknowledge chronological order, then you will find the words !!!!"AFTER THESE THINGS"!!!! Seven times in the Book of Revelation.
Jhn 13:36 Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered, "Where I go, you cannot follow Me now; but you will follow later."
If your willing to acknowledge chronological order, then you will find the words !!!!"AFTER THESE THINGS"!!!! Seven times in the Book of Revelation.
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After the first two !!!!"AFTER THESE THINGS"!!!! John the one doing all the observations (((of the future))). is ((firstly)) staring at the face of God, before many other things come into view...
Rev 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.” Rev 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.
It isn't until nineteen chapters later that the church is mentioned again. If you get my drift. And that is after five more "After these things" and one "after this" when thereafter the narrative pops back into the times of John and therefore completing any final instructions to the "Churches"...
Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
Rev 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.” Rev 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.
It isn't until nineteen chapters later that the church is mentioned again. If you get my drift. And that is after five more "After these things" and one "after this" when thereafter the narrative pops back into the times of John and therefore completing any final instructions to the "Churches"...
Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
Rev 2:26a 'He who overcomes,
Rev 2:28 'I will give him the morning star.'
Rev 2:28 'I will give him the morning star.'
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YES, Brother - it is clear where the Saints who have died in the LORD are, right now this moment.
Maybe, you can communicate that to member Laura798.
She does not believe the Scripture that we are tri-part Beings = Body Soul Spirit = Gen 2:7, Matt 10:28, 1 Thess 5:23, Rev ch6, Rev ch20
Laura believes in 'soul sleep' and rejects the Scripture that states we have full awareness after death and that our souls are in the grave sleeping with our dead bodies.
Maybe, you can communicate that to member Laura798.
She does not believe the Scripture that we are tri-part Beings = Body Soul Spirit = Gen 2:7, Matt 10:28, 1 Thess 5:23, Rev ch6, Rev ch20
Laura believes in 'soul sleep' and rejects the Scripture that states we have full awareness after death and that our souls are in the grave sleeping with our dead bodies.
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Dear Friend, pre-trib never came out of the mouth of God - never mentioned in Scripture = not once.
Therefore, the Word says it is a Lie because it contradicts directly what the Word does say.
So the path of pre-trib must "add to and take away from God's words" in order to be spoken and believed.
This is a curved, twisting path that builds error upon error for it must because it is never found in Scripture.
You did just this in your Post #5,270
Therefore, the Word says it is a Lie because it contradicts directly what the Word does say.
So the path of pre-trib must "add to and take away from God's words" in order to be spoken and believed.
This is a curved, twisting path that builds error upon error for it must because it is never found in Scripture.
You did just this in your Post #5,270
You said: "This takes everything full circle; with the Revelation of our Lord providing the simulator of the Rapture,"
"It isn't until nineteen chapters later that the church is mentioned again. If you get my drift. And that is after five more "After these things" and one "after this" when thereafter the narrative pops back into the times of John and therefore completing any final instructions to the "Churches"...
Can you find in your statement above, what you added to God's word and what you took away from God's word?
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God,
and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
"will not precede" nullifies "at the same time"
"the dead in Christ rise FIRST" nullifies "at the same time"
"After that, we who are alive and remain are caught up" nullifies "at the same"
Now if you want to say that immediately after the resurrection the rapture will occur = AMEN
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God,
and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
"will not precede" nullifies "at the same time"
"the dead in Christ rise FIRST" nullifies "at the same time"
"After that, we who are alive and remain are caught up" nullifies "at the same"
Now if you want to say that immediately after the resurrection the rapture will occur = AMEN
"…made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.…"--Ephesians 2:6-7
Laura said: "How are we seated with Him now? Because He reigns in our hearts! "I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me."--John 17:23
"If you read the rest of that section it says plainly "the dead in Christ will RISE first" so of course they cannot be coming with Him from heaven! And it would make the rest of scripture false if you believed somehow believers circumvented the judgment and got their wedding clothes before the bridegroom comes".
Dear Laura, Can you see the clear contradiction here of what you say and what Scripture declares is True???
Laura said: "How are we seated with Him now? Because He reigns in our hearts! "I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me."--John 17:23
"If you read the rest of that section it says plainly "the dead in Christ will RISE first" so of course they cannot be coming with Him from heaven! And it would make the rest of scripture false if you believed somehow believers circumvented the judgment and got their wedding clothes before the bridegroom comes".
Dear Laura, Can you see the clear contradiction here of what you say and what Scripture declares is True???
Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, where are You going?”
Jesus answered him, “Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward.”
THREE things the LORD said to Peter.
#1.) The Lord was going to the Cross where only HE can go for our sins.
#2.) After the Resurrection Peter would again follow the LORD = Acts
#3.) Peter would die, as the Lord, being crucified.
Jesus said to Peter, “Feed My sheep.
Truly, truly, I tell you, when you were young, you dressed yourself and walked where you wanted; but when you are old,
you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.”
Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God.
John 21:16-19
Jesus answered him, “Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward.”
THREE things the LORD said to Peter.
#1.) The Lord was going to the Cross where only HE can go for our sins.
#2.) After the Resurrection Peter would again follow the LORD = Acts
#3.) Peter would die, as the Lord, being crucified.
Jesus said to Peter, “Feed My sheep.
Truly, truly, I tell you, when you were young, you dressed yourself and walked where you wanted; but when you are old,
you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.”
Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God.
John 21:16-19
Thanks, I think our superior wisdom comes from studying His Word with eyes and ears wide open. 
Which means, in your model, the gathering of rev 14:14 is actually the living PRECEDING THE DEAD IN CHRIST.
""....studying His Word with eyes and ears wide open""
Rev 14;14 ....reconcile it.
Oh yeah i can see where your mental study has taken you.