How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[TheDivineWatermark]

"will not precede" nullifies "at the same time"
"the dead in Christ rise FIRST" nullifies "at the same time"
"After that, we who are alive and remain are caught up" nullifies "at the same"

Quote it [the bold ^ ] fully and accurately, coz you're leaving out the key part where it says, "caught up TOGETHER with them..."

This is saying that the "caught up" action FOR BOTH occurs "TOGETHER [ / at the same time]"

The outcome is (as the text states), "and so [/ in this manner] shall WE ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord."

--the "WE" here speaking of BOTH who will be "caught up TOGETHER [/at the same time]"
--and this pertains to the "[TO] PRESENT - G3936" of the following two passages (pertaining to the SINGULAR "VIRGIN" / "BRIDE/WIFE"):

a) 2Cor11:2 - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_corinthians/11-2.htm
b) Eph5:27 - https://biblehub.com/text/ephesians/5-27.htm

... and none of those passages have taken place yet


(though I do agree that the "dead in Christ" are "ABSENT from the body" and are "present [/ at home with] with the Lord" even now... but the "G4862 UNIONed-with" thing awaits the "caught up" [all of us TOGETHER at the SAME TIME--at ONE SPECIFIC POINT IN TIME], to "IN THIS MANNER" shall we ever be "WITH [UNIONed-with] the Lord." But which point you are missing when you say some of the things you are saying in order to attempt to defend what you're saying...)

Now if you want to say that immediately after the resurrection the rapture will occur = AMEN

 

[DavidTree]

David Tree, this is the gospel according to David--THIS is exactly how False Doctrine originates--in the isolation of scripture--Scripture Never ever contradicts itself--to believe this is to ignore so many foundational truths of scripture!

• Who has ascended to heaven and who ONLY has ascended to heaven-- because that is what scripture says unless you use a different bible. CHRIST ALONE.
• We arise when? At the second coming of Christ.
• What happens when we arise? We receive our immortal bodies.
• It is ridiculous to say a person can go to heaven BEFORE the JUDGMENT and without their immortal bodies!
• If a person can simply go to heaven before the judgment then what is the point of Chris't second coming to 'gather the elect?'

The Protestants got this blasphemous doctrine from the Roman Catholic Church who believe ALL souls are immortal--more blasphemy as ONLY God is immortal! The RCC got this idea from the PAGANS.
We receive immortality when? AT THE RESURRECTION at Christ's Second Coming when He "seperates the sheep from the goats.

To be present with the Lord simply means there is NO PASSAGE OF TIME--we die and in a twinkling of an eye we are with Him even if a person has been dead a thousand years!

This is indoctrination--you and so many others David are holding in congruent ideas in your mind--which are myths that date back to Babylon--but as a Christian you need to stop being so self-assured that you are RIGHT all the time--in this you are very wrong.

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

This is BEFORE His Death n Resurrection and final Ascension to the Father as we see in Acts ch1.

Everything changed once HE placed His Blood on the Mercy Seat in Heaven and the Way was made OPEN for the Saints to go Home.

 

[Laura798]

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

This is BEFORE His Death n Resurrection and final Ascension to the Father as we see in Acts ch1.

Everything changed once HE placed His Blood on the Mercy Seat in Heaven and the Way was made OPEN for the Saints to go Home.

You are ignoring SO MANY VERSES to make this be the truth--oh my gosh--unbelievable. Just unbelievable.

 

[DavidTree]

And here you go again, "Well said Holy Spirit - AMEN" Sheesh...

You are using that verse out of context David--that verse has nothing to do with the other verse I quoted. Joseph knew they would one day leave Egypt--it was more than 300 years later and he wanted his physical bones to go with the Israelites and not stay in Egypt. Completely out of context. The patriarch David -- is ASLEEP like all dead people --and I posted ALL the verses- that state they are asleep -you can't argue with Scripture.

What is buried in David's Tomb?

Where are the Saints that the LORD brings with Him from Heaven???

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that:
God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen/died asleep in Him.

 

[DavidTree]

You are ignoring SO MANY VERSES to make this be the truth--oh my gosh--unbelievable. Just unbelievable.

Therefore we are always confident, although we know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord.
For we walk by faith, not by sight.
We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

 

[Friend]

Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, where are You going?”
Jesus answered him, “Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward.”

THREE things the LORD said to Peter.
#1.) The Lord was going to the Cross where only HE can go for our sins.
#2.) After the Resurrection Peter would again follow the LORD = Acts
#3.) Peter would die, as the Lord, being crucified.

Jesus said to Peter, “Feed My sheep.
Truly, truly, I tell you, when you were young, you dressed yourself and walked where you wanted; but when you are old,
you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.”
Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God.
John 21:16-19

Sounds like a disinformation campaign, your response does not match up to what I said, in fact I was pointing out the very thing you are saying here. But there was much more said. Not very compelling, so I guess you don't want anyone to look back.

 

[Laura798]

What is buried in David's Tomb?

Where are the Saints that the LORD brings with Him from Heaven???

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that:
God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen/died asleep in Him.

Never mind David----you call people out for misquoting scripture/changing/ scripture, but I guess you don't have to follow your own rules.

 

[Friend]

You said: "This takes everything full circle; with the Revelation of our Lord providing the simulator of the Rapture,"

"It isn't until nineteen chapters later that the church is mentioned again. If you get my drift. And that is after five more "After these things" and one "after this" when thereafter the narrative pops back into the times of John and therefore completing any final instructions to the "Churches"...

Can you find in your statement above, what you added to God's word and what you took away from God's word?

Please point it out to everyone (every detail) expose it!!

 

[DavidTree]

Quote it [the bold ^ ] fully and accurately, coz you're leaving out the key part where it says, "caught up TOGETHER with them..."

This is saying that the "caught up" action FOR BOTH occurs "TOGETHER [ / at the same time]"

The outcome is (as the text states), "and so [/ in this manner] shall WE ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord."

--the "WE" here speaking of BOTH who will be "caught up TOGETHER [/at the same time]"
--and this pertains to the "[TO] PRESENT - G3936" of the following two passages (pertaining to the SINGULAR "VIRGIN" / "BRIDE/WIFE"):

a) 2Cor11:2 - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_corinthians/11-2.htm
b) Eph5:27 - https://biblehub.com/text/ephesians/5-27.htm

... and none of those passages have taken place yet


(though I do agree that the "dead in Christ" are "ABSENT from the body" and are "present [/ at home with] with the Lord" even now... but the "G4862 UNIONed-with" thing awaits the "caught up" [all of us TOGETHER at the SAME TIME--at ONE SPECIFIC POINT IN TIME], to "IN THIS MANNER" shall we ever be "WITH [UNIONed-with] the Lord." But which point you are missing when you say some of the things you are saying in order to attempt to defend what you're saying...)

the remaining Saints will be caught up together with them in the clouds

The dead Saints who have been Resurrected FIRST are already in the clouds with the LORD when the remaining Saints are caught up to be together with them.

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

No Resurrected Saint is waiting for the rapture - The Resurrection RISES FIRST = PERIOD

 

[ewq1938]

How do you think he appeared at the Transfiguration of Christ if he was not an immortal being?

He wasn't immortal and didn't need to be, neither was Moses.

Actually Elijah being taken up to Heaven instantaneously is another solid reason to believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

It has nothing to do with the prophecy of rapture of a group of people.

And add to that the fact that Enoch was also taken to Heaven instantaneously before the Flood, and there is an unmistakable pattern.

A pattern of misrepresentation. Neither has anything to with the event Paul and Christ spoke about. The real rapture is who survived the Great Tribulation being changed into immortals and then brought upwards to the clouds to meet with Christ and those who he brought with him from heaven.

 

[Laura798]

Therefore we are always confident, although we know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord.
For we walk by faith, not by sight.
We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Yeah, I get it David--you like to isolate scripture and then create a false narrative around it--and you're actually not even doing that--you're just parroting what youv'e been taught even when presented with irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

I won't engage with you further--you want the gospel to stay in the doctrinal box that was handed to you and there's no way unless God hits you over the head with a spiritual 2x4 that your going to see that you're believing a lie.

 

[DavidTree]

Never mind David----you call people out for misquoting scripture/changing/ scripture, but I guess you don't have to follow your own rules.

SURE - you completed the "did God really say" Garden variety twist by denying the LORD has His Saints who died with Him now in Heaven.

For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that
God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep/died in him.

Laura you fight against these words of the LORD

 

[Friend]

Dear Friend, pre-trib never came out of the mouth of God - never mentioned in Scripture = not once.

Therefore, the Word says it is a Lie because it contradicts directly what the Word does say.

So the path of pre-trib must "add to and take away from God's words" in order to be spoken and believed.

This is a curved, twisting path that builds error upon error for it must because it is never found in Scripture.

You did just this in your Post #5,270

Pre-Trib------------Mid-Trib-------------Post-Trib

OK prophecy 101... Proposed Chronology of the end times. It looks like the disinformation of a blind man. Again, point out the (specific errors) Maybe your not knowing how to address these things. Things that maybe your not understanding.

 

[Laura798]

SURE - you completed the "did God really say" Garden variety twist by denying the LORD has His Saints who died with Him now in Heaven.

For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that
God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep/died in him.

Laura you fight against these words of the LORD

Again, David you are isolating verses--that can't be true because of what the rest of scripture says--that simply means "He in us and we in them'--so many scriptures make clear your misunderstanding of the scripture. We will not be with Him until the Second Coming when the 'sheep are separated from the goats when the wheat is separated from the tares--no one can stand before God without their immortal bodies--no one.

And you need to really stop it with your proclamations "You fight against the word of God" -- news flash David--YOU ARE NOT GOD!

 

[DavidTree]

Please point it out to everyone (every detail) expose it!!

You added to Revelation = "the church is not mentioned" after ch4

By adding your words on top of the LORD's words you then "take away from the Lord's words of the Church ch4-ch20

The LORD specifically dialed in His Church in ALL of Revelation from ch1 to ch22.

 

[DavidTree]

Pre-Trib------------Mid-Trib-------------Post-Trib

OK prophecy 101... Proposed Chronology of the end times. It looks like the disinformation of a blind man. Again, point out the (specific errors) Maybe your not knowing how to address these things. Things that maybe your not understanding.

pre-trib is disinformation from satan because God never said it - never

 

[DavidTree]

Again, David you are isolating verses--that can't be true because of what the rest of scripture says--that simply means "He in us and we in them'--so many scriptures make clear your misunderstanding of the scripture. We will not be with Him until the Second Coming when the 'sheep are separated from the goats when the wheat is separated from the tares--no one can stand before God without their immortal bodies--no one.

And you need to really stop it with your proclamations "You fight against the word of God" -- news flash David--YOU ARE NOT GOD!

Well i am glad you know at least one Truth from Scripture = DavidTree is not God = AMEN and HalleluYah

Unable/Refusing to answer the question and then using add hominen attacks is not from the Holy Spirit.

Where are the Saints who died in Christ when the LORD, who is in Heaven now, will bring with Him at His Coming?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen/died asleep in Him.

"G4862 - UNIONed-with" Him ^ ... and this takes place by means of a certain order of events (which you are overlooking)... and I mentioned in past posts...

... and which is speaking of ^ "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (the CORPORATE "ONE BODY"... which is also what 1Cor15:51-54 speaks of when Paul says (after saying, "Behold, I SHEW *YOU* a mystery"), "THIS corruptible" [i.e. the DEAD IN Christ] and "THIS mortal" [i.e. the "we which are ALIVE and remain" (who are ALSO "IN Christ")]... who are BOTH "caught up TOGETHER [ / at the same time]," that is, at "our Rapture" point in time)








[yes, the "dead in Christ" are currently "at home with [G4314] the Lord" (up there!) even as they are "ABSENT from the body" coz they've DIED / "sleep through Jesus"... but this doesn't change what I've put, above, and in past posts on this point]




P.S. glad we at least agree that "resurrection" pertains to the BODY / the physical BODY

 

[Laura798]

Well i am glad you know at least one Truth from Scripture = DavidTree is not God = AMEN and HalleluYah

Right! And now if you would only get it....

 

[DavidTree]

"G4862 - UNIONed-with" Him ^ ... and this takes place by means of a certain order of events (which you are overlooking)... and I mentioned in past posts...

... and which is speaking of ^ "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (the CORPORATE "ONE BODY"... which is also what 1Cor15:51-54 speaks of when Paul says (after saying, "Behold, I SHEW *YOU* a mystery"), "THIS corruptible" [i.e. the DEAD IN Christ] and "THIS mortal" [i.e. the "we which are ALIVE and remain" (who are ALSO "IN Christ")]... who are BOTH "caught up TOGETHER [ / at the same time]," that is, at "our Rapture" point in time)

[yes, the "dead in Christ" are currently "at home with [G4314] the Lord" even as they are "ABSENT from the body" coz they've DIED / "sleep through Jesus"... but this doesn't change what I've put, above, and in past posts on this point]

Twisting Scripture Brother is sin. Why do you fight against the words of the LORD where the dead in Christ are FIRST to RISE.

Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.
For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord,
will by no means will precede those who have fallen asleep/died.
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.