How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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What I don't get is:

You have people saying because the word "virgin" is used that means the 5 foolish are saved.

Even though, the bridegroom said He didn't even know them.

Yet, some are saying they were "virgins", so they were saved...holy, clean, undefiled, unspotted etc....

And then they say... they were "left behind" because their robes were dirty and had to go clean them....Then the bridegroom is going to come back and get them....o_O Even though the scripture says nothing at all to that effect.

So, what kind of sense does that even make????...I mean really.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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Makes perfect sense and is half truth.

The error is: "he is referring this "appointment for men to die" as the spiritual death we are sentenced to before we come to Christ. Then the judgement that comes when "He will appear the second time"."

The judgement of both spiritual death and physical death was immediate upon Adam & Eve when they sinned.

The spiritual death ocurred in a 'atomos of time' = split second the moment the forbidden fruit hit their lips.

The physical death also ocurred the moment they ate the forbidden fruit.
Why then did they not drop dead that instant???

HALLELUYAH = God's Plan of GRACE & MERCY = the GOSPEL of GOD

Truly physical death entered their bodies along with spiritual death at the same moment.

The physical death had a time stamp on it according to the Will of God.
Man was created to live a thousand years but sin entered into man and those years were cut short by sin which is death.


It is written: It is appointed for man once to die after death the Judgment.

God covered Adam & Eve's sin with a blood sacrifice of a lamb and as long as they remained under this Grace, God would receive them into Eternal Life once the True Lamb came and shed His Blood for ALL the world.

Now you may say to yourself, no DavidTree - that's not how i see it, you may but hopefully not and in case you do;
CHRIST has the Remedy for you to SEE = John 3:18

For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.”

Back to Hebrews 9:28
so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many;
and He will appear a
second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.

You die twice or You die ONCE and LIVE TWICE = take your pick

Salvation is TWICE = His First Coming for remission of sin and His Second Coming for Resurrection unto Eternal Life.

Death is TWICE = All have sinned and fallen short of His Glory an AFTER death the Judgement

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!

The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Rev 20:4-6

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death.


The FATHER SON and HOLY SPIRIT wrote a Children's book so that simple minded, everyday children can read and understand.

Page 1 reads - It is written: not of works lest any man should boast

Page 2 reads - It is written: not by might nor by power but by My Spirit says the LORD

There is much more the Spirit wants to share with you on this but i have to go now , however, if you have the Spirit then do not grieve HIM by adding to or taking away from His words and HE shall open and enlarge the borders of your understanding.
PEACE
That was a long response, David, I strained myself to read it. I have a very short attention span, but that's not your problem.

I pretty much agree, BUT, there's always that but, right! If I understand you correctly about the sacrifice for Adam and Eve, and it certainly was a blood sacrifice and not just a coat of covering, you are saying it satisfied the debt of the sin.

I say no, it didn't do that at all! The scripture never gave count, which it usually does, of repentance, there was none from Adam and Eve. They blamed everyone but themselves.

That sacrifice that God sacrificed for them was a way of covering the sin that He would not have to destroy them. All mankind would come from them, and by them falling, no matter of the sacrifice as they did not repent, the sin in them fell on us through birth.

Christ certainly has paid the price for sin, but there remains the repentance in mans heart to accept His sacrifice, which Adam and Eve didn't do. Once man fell, man was fallen and all the sacrifices in the world will not change that until he is changed in nature by God at the resurrection, which is the way He chose to do it.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
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Maybe you missed it:
Lol

That means a heathen is;
Pure
Undefiled
Set apart
Waiting in purity for one, and only one, to be intimate with.

Virgin vividly and unmistakenly depicts born again , blood bought believers.

To top it off, in mat 25 those foolish virgins had lamps, oil, light, were sleeping with the wise, and were waiting for Jesus.

Unmistakenly believers.

I do know for a fact all positions but pretrib rapture NEED THAT CHANGED.

Facepalm
That is the actual post that got this all going.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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There is no valid reason to tell people virgins with an S means it is plural.
The word in the text is "parthenoi [plural]" - see verse 7 for EXAMPLE (and v.1)... in the right-hand column, the "N-NFP" (or "N-DFP" in v.1) the "P" stands for "Plural" (that's what "parthenoi" spelling SHOWS... ): https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/25-7.htm



[see "virgin [singular]" in the spelling of the same word found in 2Cor11:2, showing this distinction... "parthenon [singular]" - "N-AFS" - https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/11-2.htm ]

I'm not just "making stuff up" off the top of my head. There's actual Greek-spelling evidence showing this fact. = )
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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That seems to be the problem here folks... People jumping in on other people's conversations without any clue as to what is going on.

Sheesh, geez Louise and a whole lot of other words I shouldn't say :censored:

I've wasted half the day on this nonsense...:rolleyes:
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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Maybe you missed it:
That is the actual post that got this all going.
I didn't miss it.

I've stated in past posts that "Abs" believes in the "PARTIAL rapture theory" which I've stated I believe does NOT hold up under scrutiny and is not biblical.

I disagree with Abs. = )


...and I did say there are some "pre-tribbers" (not being "partial-rapturists") in this thread who see this passage as a "rapture passage"... but a great many pre-tribbers (such as myself) do NOT believe this passage speaks to "our Rapture," but to His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19) instead... and their ENTRANCE (or not) into the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom ("the wedding FEAST / SUPPER," the context of this passage--not who He is coming to "MARRY" [there is NO "bride / wife [singular]" being spoken of in this passage... He is not coming to MARRY *FIVE* VirginS]... This is not the "MARRIAGE" itself [which pertains to the "Virgin [SINGULAR]" 2Cor11:2 who is the "Bride / Wife [SINGULAR]" Rev19:7])
 
Aug 2, 2021
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That was a long response, David, I strained myself to read it. I have a very short attention span, but that's not your problem.

I pretty much agree, BUT, there's always that but, right! If I understand you correctly about the sacrifice for Adam and Eve, and it certainly was a blood sacrifice and not just a coat of covering, you are saying it satisfied the debt of the sin.

I say no, it didn't do that at all! The scripture never gave count, which it usually does, of repentance, there was none from Adam and Eve. They blamed everyone but themselves.

That sacrifice that God sacrificed for them was a way of covering the sin that He would not have to destroy them. All mankind would come from them, and by them falling, no matter of the sacrifice as they did not repent, the sin in them fell on us through birth.

Christ certainly has paid the price for sin, but there remains the repentance in mans heart to accept His sacrifice, which Adam and Eve didn't do. Once man fell, man was fallen and all the sacrifices in the world will not change that until he is changed in nature by God at the resurrection, which is the way He chose to do it.
Brother we AGREE - we both are 'short reply' Brothers in Arms.

That Post had to cover the question and there was more but i cut it.

The Gospel was preached by God directly to satan first and Adam and Eve were there to hear it from the LORD = Gen 3:11-15

Now the BLOOD of CHRIST was that which was declared by GOD in the Garden.

God then demonstrated the Gospel to Adam & Eve when HE killed the lamb and clothed them.

Now Adam & Eve knew what God required from them to follow by FAITH & OBEDIENCE = Blood Sacrifice(lamb) for their covering.

This is the Gospel Preached by GOD as it could never come forth from man = HALLELUYAH

This is the GOSPEL that Abraham believed in and trusted God in and was SAVED in for he believed God and offered his only begotten son, Isaac(Promised Seed) on the altar bound to wood(Cross).

ALL who believed God's WORD were saved by Grace bestowed upon them by the LORD - from Genesis thru to Revelation.

Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God
which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures

For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest
Heb 4:1-2
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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"The Bridegroom comes before the marriage occurs." If that happens pre-trib then it excludes saints from the great tribulation. While they're up in heaven eating, drinking, making merry, and get married, all of the other brides are suffering great tribulation. I don't believe God will allow that, do you?

The reason for this is that the pre-tribulation rapture theology has holes in it because it isn't scriptural. That much is obvious to many of us here in this thread.

If you care about the integrity of the scriptures, and I think you do deep down, you have to admit that the only way it makes sense is if the gathering to the marriage is post-tribulation.

It turns out that the Bible does teach the post-tribulation gathering. That's what we've been trying to show you for a while now. Do you see it yet?
Well, there seems to be the ultimate hole in the post-trib theory. Not to mention several other smaller ones.

If there is only one resurrection and it's at the Second Coming, all have been translated and given a glorified body.

How is the earth repopulated during the 1000 year reign?

All the saints now have glorified bodies, all the unbelievers are judged according to Matt. 25:31-46 and receive everlasting fire.

Where did all that multitude come from at the end of the 1000 year reign who Satan stirred up to rebellion?
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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The word in the text is "parthenoi [plural]" - see verse 7 for EXAMPLE (and v.1)... in the right-hand column, the "N-NFP" (or "N-DFP" in v.1) the "P" stands for "Plural" (that's what "parthenoi" spelling SHOWS... ): https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/25-7.htm



[see "virgin [singular]" in the spelling of the same word found in 2Cor11:2, showing this distinction... "parthenon [singular]" - "N-AFS" - https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/11-2.htm ]

I'm not just "making stuff up" off the top of my head. There's actual Greek-spelling evidence showing this fact. = )
There is no valid reason to tell people virgins with an S means it is plural. Everyone already knows what the S means.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
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I didn't miss it.

I've stated in past posts that "Abs" believes in the "PARTIAL rapture theory" which I've stated I believe does NOT hold up under scrutiny and is not biblical.

I disagree with Abs. = )


...and I did say there are some "pre-tribbers" (not being "partial-rapturists") in this thread who see this passage as a "rapture passage"... but a great many pre-tribbers (such as myself) do NOT believe this passage speaks to "our Rapture," but to His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19) instead... and their ENTRANCE (or not) into the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom ("the wedding FEAT / SUPPER," the context of this passage--not who He is coming to "MARRY" [there is NO "bride / wife [singular]" being spoken of in this passage])
Well, then clearly my comments weren't to you or any of the others.

So, for someone to pick out a sentence in one of my posts describing what another guy was saying in our conversation and say I made up that nonsense...was ridiculous.

He had no clue what I was talking about to begin with. Then you have others jumping in to defend it.

That is uncalled for and foolishness if you ask me.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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In the parable of the virgins... I don't see any verses where it states they were left behind and given another chance?
Remember Noah - once the Door was shut (and God shut the Door) anyone not in the ARK(Christ) died under Wrath.

SAME with the 10 virgins - only 5 went in and the Door was SHUT.

PEACE
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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Jesus does NOT tell the "5 WISE Virgins" He does not know them.
Duh.

Are you perhaps just skimming over written words and not actually comprehending them?
That's you not me. I never said Christ didn't know the wise virgins. How bad is your reading comprehension??
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
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Brother we AGREE - we both are 'short reply' Brothers in Arms.

That Post had to cover the question and there was more but i cut it.

The Gospel was preached by God directly to satan first and Adam and Eve were there to hear it from the LORD = Gen 3:11-15

Now the BLOOD of CHRIST was that which was declared by GOD in the Garden.

God then demonstrated the Gospel to Adam & Eve when HE killed the lamb and clothed them.

Now Adam & Eve knew what God required from them to follow by FAITH & OBEDIENCE = Blood Sacrifice(lamb) for their covering.

This is the Gospel Preached by GOD as it could never come forth from man = HALLELUYAH

This is the GOSPEL that Abraham believed in and trusted God in and was SAVED in for he believed God and offered his only begotten son, Isaac(Promised Seed) on the altar bound to wood(Cross).

ALL who believed God's WORD were saved by Grace bestowed upon them by the LORD - from Genesis thru to Revelation.

Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God
which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures

For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest
Heb 4:1-2
Well, we just differ in many ways here! I believe we do share many other beliefs in common though, in fact, I know we do.

As far as I'm concerned we are both saved by grace through faith, not by if we get the doctrines right. You may disagree but that's the way I see it, we are Brother's in Christ by faith, and I respect that and you as my Brother in Christ!
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,995
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Well, there seems to be the ultimate hole in the post-trib theory. Not to mention several other smaller ones.

If there is only one resurrection and it's at the Second Coming, all have been translated and given a glorified body.

How is the earth repopulated during the 1000 year reign?

All the saints now have glorified bodies, all the unbelievers are judged according to Matt. 25:31-46 and receive everlasting fire.

Where did all that multitude come from at the end of the 1000 year reign who Satan stirred up to rebellion?

This has already been answered! There are mortals of nations that are ruled over. Is your attention span so short you can't remember when a question was answered? You and I just talked about this the other day. There are no holes in post-trib and you haven't identified one here either.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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That's you not me. I never said Christ didn't know the wise virgins. How bad is your reading comprehension??
Well, that's who I was talking about when you responded with "How can they be saved when Jesus doesn't know them?" - https://christianchat.com/threads/h...ular-in-the-modern-church.201091/post-4720525

What was I supposed to think you meant?

Your words came across to me in such a way that sounded as though you perceived I had been speaking of the "foolish virgins" of this text (when I wasn't).



My apologies if I misunderstood your sentence there.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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This has already been answered! There are mortals of nations that are ruled over. Is your attention span so short you can't remember when a question was answered?
So the "wrath of God" had zero effect on them?? (so that they can ENTER the MK age as "non-believers," no problem??)
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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Well, that's who I was talking about when you responded with "How can they be saved when Jesus doesn't know them?" - https://christianchat.com/threads/h...ular-in-the-modern-church.201091/post-4720525

What was I supposed to think you meant?
It's pretty clear I was talking about the foolish not being saved because of the fact Christ doesn't even know them. I don't see how you could misunderstand and think I would say the wise virgins were not known to Christ. That makes absolutely no sense at all.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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So the "wrath of God" had zero effect on them?? (so that they can ENTER the MK age as "non-believers," no problem??)
These are not logical questions. God's wrath affects anyone who suffers it. Why ask if it could not affect them? The next question is even less intelligible so I'm not going to even answer it.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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This has already been answered! There are mortals of nations that are ruled over. Is your attention span so short you can't remember when a question was answered? You and I just talked about this the other day. There are no holes in post-trib and you haven't identified one here either.
"There are mortals of nations that are ruled over." Is that your answer to the question, or a joke?

Oh my friend, you have yet to see holes in the post-trib theory, but they will be coming your way!