THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH

[John146]

You really need to do more homework on this subject. I'd recommend that you read chapter 8 of Michael Heiser's Reversing Hermon.

My advice is stick with the Bible. Nehemiah6 knows THE Bible.

 

[SophieT]

I've refuted this many times.

The new versions open the way for gay marriage. If a deacon can be a woman, and the office of a deacon can have but one wife, then a woman who is a deacon can have a wife.

actually you are the one doing the perverting here

because of your adherence to, and misguided belief that the KJ is the only viable English translation of the Bible, you go to extremes to try and convince YOURSELF that you are right

the rest of us are not convinced and know better

we all know that doctrine is formed with unifying passages of scripture and not cherry picking verses to create a disjointed and sloppy understanding that satisfies prejudice. from beginning to end the Bible forbids homosexual unions or behavior, so this nonsense of yours is contracted in an attempt to shore up your weak assertions

you refuse every posts that tries to educate you on the original languages and you dismiss the proof they offer that you are wrong

is that vanity of some sort? whatever it is, it is a great weakness in your comprehension and does not serve you well

 

[Dino246]

Reversing hermon relies heavily on the book of enoch, thus, it is extra biblical, hardly a book for sound teaching.

Enoch, the watchers, and the forgotten mission of Jesus Christ.
That's very scary teaching for a born again Christian.
Are you?
Also, what church teaches you this stuff?

It sounds like you are aware of the book, but haven't actually read it. Get back to me when you have.

 

[Dino246]

My advice is stick with the Bible. Nehemiah6 knows THE Bible.

Since when do I take your advice?

 

[Laura798]

My advice is stick with the Bible. Nehemiah6 knows THE Bible.

What difference does it make if he 'knows' the bible, but doesn't live by it? So did the Pharisees 'know' the bible and look where it got them.

"If anyone imagines that he knows and understands anything [of divine matters, without love], he has not yet known as he ought to know."--1st Corinthians 8:2 (Amplified)

"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal."--1st Corinthians 13:1

I think Nehemiah should change his screen name to Cymbal...

 

[John146]

actually you are the one doing the perverting here

because of your adherence to, and misguided belief that the KJ is the only viable English translation of the Bible, you go to extremes to try and convince YOURSELF that you are right

the rest of us are not convinced and know better

we all know that doctrine is formed with unifying passages of scripture and not cherry picking verses to create a disjointed and sloppy understanding that satisfies prejudice. from beginning to end the Bible forbids homosexual unions or behavior, so this nonsense of yours is contracted in an attempt to shore up your weak assertions

you refuse every posts that tries to educate you on the original languages and you dismiss the proof they offer that you are wrong

is that vanity of some sort? whatever it is, it is a great weakness in your comprehension and does not serve you well

Can you post some of those originals please? I'll wait...

 

[RolloTamasi]

It sounds like you are aware of the book, but haven't actually read it. Get back to me when you have.

I don't read cultic stuff.

 

[p_rehbein]

I think divorce does hurt the integrity of the office. God hates divorce but his calling and gifting are without repentance. The LIST OF QUALIFICATIONS PAUL GAVE is Praise worthy.

Hurts or not, the qualificaiton was to only have one wife........nothing disqualified a man from having been divorced. thus, those who teach this today are in error

 

[p_rehbein]

As informative and entertaining as all these discussions are, I would still like to address the "issue of the OP."

I would love to hear from any of the women here who are Members of a Church that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. Expressly how they feel about their Church Leaders (the men) only focusing on women not having authority while ignoring all the other statements the Apostle Paul made.

Has this approch by the Church Leaders effected the women of the Congregation in any way spiritually?

 

[Vindicator]

Do I believe the word still stands-a man role is to love His wife as Christ loved the church and gave His life for it and is a woman to submit? Yes. But I liken it to president and vice-president and not parent and child. I've heard it said that when each is in harmony in their role--this role becomes combined.

Absolutely. No earthly way I could view my wife as a child or treat her like one. Wouldn't DARE to, LoL. I'd receive some form of warning. She's my equal, mentally especially. I'm stronger spiritually and emotionally, but with the former that's how it should be if I am to lead, and with the latter it's just because we're different, and that's just the way I'm built.

 

[CS1]

Hurts or not, the qualificaiton was to only have one wife........nothing disqualified a man from having been divorced. thus, those who teach this today are in error

don't know what you are talking about. married once is one wife. As Genesis 2:24 states and Jesus said in The Gospel of Matthew

 

[peldom10]

I find it so curious that there wasn't all this parliamentarianism (for lack of a better word)--men are this, women are that--I see a lot of 'adding to' on either side of the debate-that is to say the church universal.

Do I believe the word still stands-a man role is to love His wife as Christ loved the church and gave His life for it and is a woman to submit? Yes. But I liken it to president and vice-president and not parent and child. I've heard it said that when each is in harmony in their role--this role becomes combined.

And the church as it stands now seems to be man (mankind okay?) rather than Christ Centered. 'jesus' -- as He is so often called in our churches, instead of Lord, Lord Jesus Christ, Christ. It's like calling Queen Elizabeth simply 'elizabeth'. In any case Jesus is still in the manger--a kind of a mascot; even though our modern churches say 'Grace grace, grace' it's all about grace'--they are so often weak, empty, devoid of the Spirit. Again, the church has swung too far in either direction. I really care nothing for the business like model of the church--at all.

There was NO SUCH thing as a Lead Pastor or a Senior Pastor--elders were men who were also teachers. deacons were both men and women. Many women have been missionaries as the apostles were---think Amy Carmichael and Elisabeth Elliot. I personally would like to see the house church model grow--everyone is involved and whomever is decided upon can facilitate--I imagine Lydia did in her own home; and as these area churches grow, then appoint elders, yes according to scripture who are men. This has zero to do with equality. We see in the early church in Acts they gathered together in assembly in synagogues on the Sabbath and also met daily. I believe this is what Paul is referring to regarding the 'custom', custom being the operative word.

I feel the chapter and verses are useful to find things, but have also done harm to the church, because it is thru the isolation of scripture that false doctrine comes from.

My personal feeling is Christ saw and understood the plight of women and wanted to elevate them. His first miracle was turning water into wine at the request of his mother; the first person he told directly He was the Messiah was the Samaritan woman; the first person to witness and tell the good news of His resurrection was a woman.

We see women in scripture as 'savior' types--think Abigail, Esther, Rahab, Jael; barren women--out of death came life, think Sarah, Rebekah, Rachel, and Hannah--see all of the women who are listed in the genealogy of Jesus.

Look at the Proverbs woman, "She speaks with wisdom,and faithful instruction is on her tongue."
She cared for her household, directed her servants, cared for the poor, she was a seller of linen, with her earnings she bought a field--and this more than 4000 years ago! And what words did her husband say of her? "Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all.”

A well reasoned summary and accurate with scriptures.

Christ wished to continue the recognition of women's importance as God in the OT/OC.

 

[Laura798]

A well reasoned summary and accurate with scriptures.

Christ wished to continue the recognition of women's importance as God in the OT/OC.

Thank you, Peldom, I appreciate your kind words.

 

[Dino246]

I don't read cultic stuff.

Unmitigated slander.

 

[p_rehbein]

don't know what you are talking about. married once is one wife. As Genesis 2:24 states and Jesus said in The Gospel of Matthew

Stated earlier that in those days it was not unusual for a man to have "more than one wife."

 

[CS1]

Stated earlier that in those days it was not unusual for a man to have "more than one wife."

In The beginning it was not so.

 

[kaylagrl]

As informative and entertaining as all these discussions are, I would still like to address the "issue of the OP."

I would love to hear from any of the women here who are Members of a Church that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. Expressly how they feel about their Church Leaders (the men) only focusing on women not having authority while ignoring all the other statements the Apostle Paul made.

Has this approch by the Church Leaders effected the women of the Congregation in any way spiritually?

I think you're looking for a specific answer here. I cannot say I have experienced the situation you speak of. My pastor is male and we have different denominations under our tent so I'm not sure how all of them feel about having a female pastor. My sister and BIL attended a small church that had a female minister. But my BIL left the church when another female pastor took over who was married because he said he felt that wasn't in keeping with Scripture. Struck me as odd, but that was his feeling and my sister followed.

I've already said I have female pastors in my family, most are married. I was in evangelistic ministry many years myself. I grew up with many female Sunday school teachers, very little male teachers. My mother was a teacher for years, my father for a while but wasn't one for patience with misbehaving kids. I would say the cast majority of Sunday school teachers I grew up with were female, and the same in my travels. Instead of being offended by your OP I'm trying to get your point. Again I grew up in an era where female pastors were possible but saw very few myself and I grew up under male pastors. So may I ask, what specifically are you looking for in your answer? Perhaps I simply didn't experience what you're looking for and can't give a correct answer.

 

[SophieT]

Can you post some of those originals please? I'll wait...

John146 said:

1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

The Greek word is "diakonos", which is rendered "deacon" in several places. However, in this one place where it is used in reference to a woman, it is translated "servant". Bias much? Absolutely! The NIV and other modern translations have it correct, while the KJV has it translated incorrectly.

By the way, Strong's says that this word means, specifically, a Christian teacher and pastor.
Post 296/297
Your unwillingness to consider the Greek undermines your position. Where there are actually pronouns in Greek in this passage, they are not gender-specific.

Post 271
No perversion dude. That is a translation. But the Greek word there is diakonos which is a root word for the English deacon. But a deacon's role is one who reads the Gospel in divine worship, one of a body of assistants to a priest or other clergyman. Servant of the church, religious official," literally "servant," from dia- here perhaps "thoroughly, from all sides," + PIE *kon-o-, from root *ken- "to hasten, set oneself in motion.

deacon (n.)
Middle English deken, "one who reads the Gospel in divine worship, one of a body of assistants to a priest or other clergyman," from Old English deacon, diacon, from Late Latin diaconus, from Greek diakonos "servant of the church, religious official," literally "servant," from dia- here perhaps "thoroughly, from all sides," + PIE *kon-o-, from root *ken- "to hasten, set oneself in motion." Related: Deaconess; deaconship.

So as you can see if we are looking for closeness in accuracy, deacon is a better word to fit diakonos. Servant is a true role of deacon but can be misunderstood on its own.

but you in your lack of honesty, say this means gay marriage.

there are others as well, but you choose to ignore them and make silly excuses as to why you reject them....well the excuses are because you believe the KJ is the only Bible....it may be the only Bible for you, an excellent source for miscomprehension and the basis for yours and others claims of your repetitive errors. that's on you

you have not shown any proof of what you say, but contend simply that you are right. which is ridiculous.

I don't need to repeat myself here...you have what you pretended does not exist so don't ask again as we all can read and knew when you asked, that you were just blowing smoke

it's really a waste of people's time when you have no intention of even briefly considering anything but what you already believe

 

[proverbs35]

The Greek word is "diakonos", which is rendered "deacon" in several places. However, in this one place where it is used in reference to a woman, it is translated "servant". Bias much? Absolutely! The NIV and other modern translations have it correct, while the KJV has it translated incorrectly.

By the way, Strong's says that this word means, specifically, a Christian teacher and pastor.
Post 296/297
Your unwillingness to consider the Greek undermines your position. Where there are actually pronouns in Greek in this passage, they are not gender-specific.

Post 271
No perversion dude. That is a translation. But the Greek word there is diakonos which is a root word for the English deacon. But a deacon's role is one who reads the Gospel in divine worship, one of a body of assistants to a priest or other clergyman. Servant of the church, religious official," literally "servant," from dia- here perhaps "thoroughly, from all sides," + PIE *kon-o-, from root *ken- "to hasten, set oneself in motion.

deacon (n.)
Middle English deken, "one who reads the Gospel in divine worship, one of a body of assistants to a priest or other clergyman," from Old English deacon, diacon, from Late Latin diaconus, from Greek diakonos "servant of the church, religious official," literally "servant," from dia- here perhaps "thoroughly, from all sides," + PIE *kon-o-, from root *ken- "to hasten, set oneself in motion." Related: Deaconess; deaconship.

So as you can see if we are looking for closeness in accuracy, deacon is a better word to fit diakonos. Servant is a true role of deacon but can be misunderstood on its own.

but you in your lack of honesty, say this means gay marriage.

there are others as well, but you choose to ignore them and make silly excuses as to why you reject them....well the excuses are because you believe the KJ is the only Bible....it may be the only Bible for you, an excellent source for miscomprehension and the basis for yours and others claims of your repetitive errors. that's on you

you have not shown any proof of what you say, but contend simply that you are right. which is ridiculous.

I don't need to repeat myself here...you have what you pretended does not exist so don't ask again as we all can read and knew when you asked, that you were just blowing smoke

it's really a waste of people's time when you have no intention of even briefly considering anything but what you already believe

Paul used ONE Hebrew word (diakonos
Strong's Concordance 1249) to describe Phoebe (a woman) in Romans 16:1 and men 1 Timothy 3:12. Paul did not use separate words to describe Phoebe (a woman) in Romans 16:1 and men 1 Timothy 3:12. Paul used ONE Hebrew word to describe both. The English translators used two different words whereas Paul only used ONE Hebrew word. Some people put so much faith in the English translators. However, the English translators took liberties that the Apostle Paul did not take. According to some, the English translators knew better than Apostle Paul who wrote under the divine inspiration of God. Wow! Smh

 

[proverbs35]

Paul used ONE Hebrew word (diakonos
Strong's Concordance 1249) to describe Phoebe (a woman) in Romans 16:1 and men 1 Timothy 3:12. Paul did not use separate words to describe Phoebe (a woman) in Romans 16:1 and men 1 Timothy 3:12. Paul used ONE Hebrew word to describe both. The English translators used two different words whereas Paul only used ONE Hebrew word. Some people put so much faith in the English translators. However, the English translators took liberties that the Apostle Paul did not take. According to some, the English translators knew better than Apostle Paul who wrote under the divine inspiration of God. Wow! Smh

The Greek word is "diakonos", which is rendered "deacon" in several places. However, in this one place where it is used in reference to a woman, it is translated "servant". Bias much? Absolutely! The NIV and other modern translations have it correct, while the KJV has it translated incorrectly.

By the way, Strong's says that this word means, specifically, a Christian teacher and pastor.
Post 296/297
Your unwillingness to consider the Greek undermines your position. Where there are actually pronouns in Greek in this passage, they are not gender-specific.

Post 271
No perversion dude. That is a translation. But the Greek word there is diakonos which is a root word for the English deacon. But a deacon's role is one who reads the Gospel in divine worship, one of a body of assistants to a priest or other clergyman. Servant of the church, religious official," literally "servant," from dia- here perhaps "thoroughly, from all sides," + PIE *kon-o-, from root *ken- "to hasten, set oneself in motion.

deacon (n.)
Middle English deken, "one who reads the Gospel in divine worship, one of a body of assistants to a priest or other clergyman," from Old English deacon, diacon, from Late Latin diaconus, from Greek diakonos "servant of the church, religious official," literally "servant," from dia- here perhaps "thoroughly, from all sides," + PIE *kon-o-, from root *ken- "to hasten, set oneself in motion." Related: Deaconess; deaconship.

So as you can see if we are looking for closeness in accuracy, deacon is a better word to fit diakonos. Servant is a true role of deacon but can be misunderstood on its own.

but you in your lack of honesty, say this means gay marriage.

there are others as well, but you choose to ignore them and make silly excuses as to why you reject them....well the excuses are because you believe the KJ is the only Bible....it may be the only Bible for you, an excellent source for miscomprehension and the basis for yours and others claims of your repetitive errors. that's on you

you have not shown any proof of what you say, but contend simply that you are right. which is ridiculous.

I don't need to repeat myself here...you have what you pretended does not exist so don't ask again as we all can read and knew when you asked, that you were just blowing smoke

it's really a waste of people's time when you have no intention of even briefly considering anything but what you already believe

Correction: I meant to say that Paul used ONE Greek word.