Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
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Am not worried about famine in the end of times because God chose me as one of his elect and will keep me fed.
-God kept Nebuchadnezzar alive living like a wild beast eating grass as a ox for 7 years.
-Elijah fed food by the ravens commanded by God.
-Also food got multiplied from a bunch of verses in the bible.
2 Corinthians 5:7
King James Version
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
Freedom from sin=True gospel=After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.
link below will find out if you are one of the elect of God or one of the nonelect.
https://christianchat.com/testimoni...s-except-christian-stuff.199651/#post-4583333
-God kept Nebuchadnezzar alive living like a wild beast eating grass as a ox for 7 years.
-Elijah fed food by the ravens commanded by God.
-Also food got multiplied from a bunch of verses in the bible.
2 Corinthians 5:7
King James Version
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
Freedom from sin=True gospel=After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.
link below will find out if you are one of the elect of God or one of the nonelect.
https://christianchat.com/testimoni...s-except-christian-stuff.199651/#post-4583333
Am not worried about famine in the end of times because God chose me as one of his elect and will keep me fed.
-God kept Nebuchadnezzar alive living like a wild beast eating grass as a ox for 7 years.
-Elijah fed food by the ravens commanded by God.
-Also food got multiplied from a bunch of verses in the bible.
2 Corinthians 5:7
King James Version
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
Freedom from sin=True gospel=After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.
link below will find out if you are one of the elect of God or one of the nonelect.
https://christianchat.com/testimoni...s-except-christian-stuff.199651/#post-4583333
-God kept Nebuchadnezzar alive living like a wild beast eating grass as a ox for 7 years.
-Elijah fed food by the ravens commanded by God.
-Also food got multiplied from a bunch of verses in the bible.
2 Corinthians 5:7
King James Version
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
Freedom from sin=True gospel=After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.
link below will find out if you are one of the elect of God or one of the nonelect.
https://christianchat.com/testimoni...s-except-christian-stuff.199651/#post-4583333
Here are the facts.
1. There are NO verses showing Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven. None. Think about it.
2. Acts 24:15 says there will be A resurrection of the saved and A resurrection of the unsaved. That's 2 total.
3. 1 Cor 15:23 says after the resurrection of Christ, being the "first fruits", "then when He comes, those who belong to Him". Keep in mind that will occur at the SINGLE saved resurrection. iow, ALL the saved are resurrected at the same time.
4. 2 Thess 2:1-3 shows that the Second Advent and "gathering" (rapture) occur at the same time and NOT until AFTER the Tribulation.
5. Rev 20:1-5 specifically calls the resurrection of martyred believers from the Tribulation the FIRST resurrection. In which "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected.
1. There are NO verses showing Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven. None. Think about it.
2. Acts 24:15 says there will be A resurrection of the saved and A resurrection of the unsaved. That's 2 total.
3. 1 Cor 15:23 says after the resurrection of Christ, being the "first fruits", "then when He comes, those who belong to Him". Keep in mind that will occur at the SINGLE saved resurrection. iow, ALL the saved are resurrected at the same time.
4. 2 Thess 2:1-3 shows that the Second Advent and "gathering" (rapture) occur at the same time and NOT until AFTER the Tribulation.
5. Rev 20:1-5 specifically calls the resurrection of martyred believers from the Tribulation the FIRST resurrection. In which "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected.
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I don't believe this. Jesus said "this generation" would see all of the initial birth pains of the coming destruction of Jerusalem. This destruction, involving the desolation of the temple, stone by stone, took place in that generation, in 70 AD. Nothing could be clearer, and yet futurists always want every prophecy to be about their generation, about the endtimes. Sorry, doesn't work for me.
Am not worried about famine in the end of times because God chose me as one of his elect and will keep me fed.
-God kept Nebuchadnezzar alive living like a wild beast eating grass as a ox for 7 years.
-Elijah fed food by the ravens commanded by God.
-Also food got multiplied from a bunch of verses in the bible.
2 Corinthians 5:7
King James Version
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
Freedom from sin=True gospel=After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.
link below will find out if you are one of the elect of God or one of the nonelect.
https://christianchat.com/testimoni...s-except-christian-stuff.199651/#post-4583333
-God kept Nebuchadnezzar alive living like a wild beast eating grass as a ox for 7 years.
-Elijah fed food by the ravens commanded by God.
-Also food got multiplied from a bunch of verses in the bible.
2 Corinthians 5:7
King James Version
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
Freedom from sin=True gospel=After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.
link below will find out if you are one of the elect of God or one of the nonelect.
https://christianchat.com/testimoni...s-except-christian-stuff.199651/#post-4583333
Since God's escape plan is very real, and part of scripture, I wonder why you wish to remain behind and suffer God's wrath?
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I rather think a "secret" rapture is made up by posttribbers.
Let's reherse:
A SHOUT
A TRUMPET
Graves suddenly flying open: this is bound to make noise and start a very noisy earthquake.
How then could this be "secret?" The WORLD will know something happened.
The Word of God says that Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation.
Yes, but it also says He will come just before wrath and the Day of His wrath (the Day of the Lord.)
Just these two verses PROVE they cannot be speaking of the same event: "After the trib' must be at least 7 years after God's wrath begins.
Just so you know, John saw the great crowd too large to number in chapter 7, NOT IN CHAPTER 19 of Revelation.
Let's reherse:
A SHOUT
A TRUMPET
Graves suddenly flying open: this is bound to make noise and start a very noisy earthquake.
How then could this be "secret?" The WORLD will know something happened.
The Word of God says that Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation.
Yes, but it also says He will come just before wrath and the Day of His wrath (the Day of the Lord.)
Just these two verses PROVE they cannot be speaking of the same event: "After the trib' must be at least 7 years after God's wrath begins.
Just so you know, John saw the great crowd too large to number in chapter 7, NOT IN CHAPTER 19 of Revelation.
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All of what you just said is false.
The great tribulation is not God's wrath, it's the devil's wrath. As shown by Revelation 12:12, the great tribulation doesn't occur until immediately after the devil comes to earth with great wrath:
Rev. 12:12
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
The Day of the Lord (or the Day of Christ , also known as the day of God's wrath) doesn't occur until after Jesus returns and the church is gathered. It's definitely post-tribulation:
2 Thess. 2:1-3
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
The great tribulation is not God's wrath, it's the devil's wrath. As shown by Revelation 12:12, the great tribulation doesn't occur until immediately after the devil comes to earth with great wrath:
Rev. 12:12
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
The Day of the Lord (or the Day of Christ , also known as the day of God's wrath) doesn't occur until after Jesus returns and the church is gathered. It's definitely post-tribulation:
2 Thess. 2:1-3
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
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FreeGrace2 said:
1. There are NO verses showing Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven. None. Think about it.
OK.
John 14-
1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.
2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
I added the next verse (v.4) to prove the point of what Jesus said.
Jesus had NOT YET risen from the dead. He was assuring His disciples that when they die, they would be with Him, as He was going to prepare a place for them.
As to v.3, this isn't materially different than 1 Thess 4:17 - After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
So, my statement is not refuted. There is nothing in John 14 about the resurrection or rapture.
Rather, you are unable to address them. If they were fallacies, they SHOULD BE EASY to refute.
Truth is ALWAYS able to refute fallacies.
1. There are NO verses showing Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven. None. Think about it.
OK.
John 14-
1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.
2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
I added the next verse (v.4) to prove the point of what Jesus said.
Jesus had NOT YET risen from the dead. He was assuring His disciples that when they die, they would be with Him, as He was going to prepare a place for them.
As to v.3, this isn't materially different than 1 Thess 4:17 - After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
So, my statement is not refuted. There is nothing in John 14 about the resurrection or rapture.
Rather, you are unable to address them. If they were fallacies, they SHOULD BE EASY to refute.
Truth is ALWAYS able to refute fallacies.
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This is so ludicrous it is not even worth responding to. So according to your fantasy Jesus comes back again, and again, and again, each time a Christian dies, to take them to Heaven where He is!
No, the proper interpretation is that this is the first mention of the Rapture by Christ Himself. "I WILL COME AGAIN AND RECEIVE YOU UNTO MYSELF" corresponds to 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 which says that "the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from Heaven".
No, the proper interpretation is that this is the first mention of the Rapture by Christ Himself. "I WILL COME AGAIN AND RECEIVE YOU UNTO MYSELF" corresponds to 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 which says that "the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from Heaven".
Separate subject. I never said all of prophecy was historically fulfilled. Preterists tend in that direction. I do not.
Jesus did say that he was giving prophecy, in the Revelation, of things to happen *after* the things that presently were. So after detailing the things that were happening at that time with the 7 churches of Asia Jesus went on to show John things that would happen later.
He did not give a precise time--only said these things would follow. The imagery is of the 2nd Coming, but was only intended to show that these things were leading to the 2nd Coming. Each seal opening and each trumpet described things that were happening in history, leading to the 2nd Coming.
The 7 trumpets show God's judgments upon the earth. They have been happening all throughout history, but we know they will culminate towards the end, because we are told the last days will consist of a 3.5 year reign of Antichrist, followed by a great mobilization to Armageddon. Then judgment will be poured out in final measure, leading to the greatest judgment of all--sentencing for eternity.
Jesus did say that he was giving prophecy, in the Revelation, of things to happen *after* the things that presently were. So after detailing the things that were happening at that time with the 7 churches of Asia Jesus went on to show John things that would happen later.
He did not give a precise time--only said these things would follow. The imagery is of the 2nd Coming, but was only intended to show that these things were leading to the 2nd Coming. Each seal opening and each trumpet described things that were happening in history, leading to the 2nd Coming.
The 7 trumpets show God's judgments upon the earth. They have been happening all throughout history, but we know they will culminate towards the end, because we are told the last days will consist of a 3.5 year reign of Antichrist, followed by a great mobilization to Armageddon. Then judgment will be poured out in final measure, leading to the greatest judgment of all--sentencing for eternity.
FreeGrace2 said:
Jesus had NOT YET risen from the dead. He was assuring His disciples that when they die, they would be with Him, as He was going to prepare a place for them.
Thank you for your opinion.
No, actually, that seems to be what the pretribbers must think when they cite Jn 14:1-3 as some kind of proof of pretrib rapture.
That's the fantasy.
OK, let's go with your theory. Where does the text say that Jesus takes resurrected/raptured believers to heaven?
Which verse, specifically?
Jesus had NOT YET risen from the dead. He was assuring His disciples that when they die, they would be with Him, as He was going to prepare a place for them.
Thank you for your opinion.
No, actually, that seems to be what the pretribbers must think when they cite Jn 14:1-3 as some kind of proof of pretrib rapture.
That's the fantasy.
OK, let's go with your theory. Where does the text say that Jesus takes resurrected/raptured believers to heaven?
Which verse, specifically?
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