God's Sabbath Rest - Mission Impossible

DavidTree · Nov 20, 2021

TMS said:

Me too - AMEN

Now if, the Ministry of Grace is what pleases the Father then the Scripture is fulfilled as it is written:
"Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on that day He rested from all the work of creation that He had accomplished. "

And thus the riddle of this OP has partially been solved.

Can you complete the challenge of the OP and find the Scripture(s) where the sabbath rest became obsolete and yet is ALIVE.

TMS · Nov 20, 2021

DavidTree said:

Jesus is seen in many things that God created.
Because Jesus is the water of life do we never need to drink water again?
Because Jesus is our rest and we find rest in Jesus do we cast away the 4th commandment?

You seem only see it from one direction and are very set in your belief.

"find the Scripture(s) where the sabbath rest became obsolete and yet is ALIVE."

I can not find any text that states that the sabbath rest is obsolete (no longer produced or used; out of date. )

but texts that say it is Alive.....
This is the new covernant =
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

1Ti_1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Jas_2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas_2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas_2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

1Jn_3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

If there is no law and no sin today we do not need the grace of Jesus.

The law reveals our sin and sin reveals our need of Jesus and Jesus is the complete solution.

DavidTree · Nov 20, 2021

TMS said:

Jesus is seen in many things that God created.
Because Jesus is the water of life do we never need to drink water again?
Because Jesus is our rest and we find rest in Jesus do we cast away the 4th commandment?

You seem only see it from one direction and are very set in your belief.

"find the Scripture(s) where the sabbath rest became obsolete and yet is ALIVE."

I can not find any text that states that the sabbath rest is obsolete (no longer produced or used; out of date. )

but texts that say it is Alive.....
This is the new covernant =
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

1Ti_1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Jas_2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas_2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas_2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

1Jn_3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

If there is no law and no sin today we do not need the grace of Jesus.

The law reveals our sin and sin reveals our need of Jesus and Jesus is the complete solution.

DavidTree · Nov 20, 2021

TMS said:

i see you came to the same conclusion as 'my belief' = "Jesus is the complete solution."

Now, can you find in the writings of the NT the Scripture that says 'obsolete and yet ALIVE' .
CLUE they are in separate passages.

Here are the 'obsolete' passages: Colossians 2

In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

16So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

Find, in the Gospel where it is ALIVE.

DavidTree · Nov 20, 2021

TMS said:

You are 100% CORRECT here = 100%
You said: "The reason God rested and made it Holy was for mans sake. It was a gift to mankind."

Now if you can just nail it down.............

DavidTree · Nov 20, 2021

studentoftheword said:

BEFORE the Law, once God established His Will, He made it known to those who were His.

He did this with Adam and Eve in the Garden telling them what Tree to not eat from - they disobeyed.
After this the LORD Himself prophesied to satan in front of Adam & Eve.
Then the LORD Himself sacrificed a clean animal to clothe Adam & Eve.
There are many more things that the LORD spoke to Pre-Flood/Pre-Law servants of God who were responsible to communicate to the People just as Moses did to the Israelites.
Some of these Servants were Enoch and Noah.

There was no death sentence prescribed to the seventh day of rest by God before the Law.

Genesis 2:1-3 is not about God needing to rest as we need it for our physical bodies.

God loaded up Genesis with Prophetic overtones and revelations of Himself and His Coming and His Sacrifice and MORE.

Once the Law was established thru Moses, the penalty for not resting on the sabbath was DEATH.

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you.
Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it,
that person shall be cut off from among his people.
Exodus 31:12-14

Mii · Nov 21, 2021

*sighs*

Well, I typed out a rather long post but don't feel quite at liberty to give my own personal experiences with what the Sabbath means/has meant to me over my lifetime. Maybe tomorrow? It would take a rather long blog to satisfy me that I'm explaining myself well...which some might say suggests that I don't have anything to add.

Really though, it changes weekly and each Sabbath brings up different things for me. I DO believe that it is a personal thing between you and the Lord. Someone can offer insight that is inspired and that "can" be of use to you but it isn't scripture if that makes sense. I've found often enough that the Lord speaks through other people to push us both away and toward things as well as to expand our personal revelation. Alas, also though, we should be careful about sharing our personal revelation as equating to scripture because we are all uniquely and wonderfully made. Keyword: Unique. Work out your own salvation...

The scripture about one man valuing "one day above another and one all alike" (paraphrase) illustrates that pretty well regarding this topic.

So...

The one thing I would like to add is the scripture about "taking no thought to your own pleasure" (I can add a reference if you'd like)

I actually got pretty angry when I saw a poster (maybe a year or two ago) say something along the lines of "Well that's dumb because my pleasure is to go to church and praise God. So I don't do that? You guys that think we should do the Sabbath are Judaizers" or some such. I chose not to post on that thread because this person clearly seemed to not have any interest in understanding why that was written. Leastways it seemed to me.

Reason being; that verse doesn't mean that to me. It's not talking about OBVIOUS things where your purposes and the Lord's are aligned. *eye roll*. It's talking about when they are not. The things that are fleshly but not necessarily sinful. The "what do I want to do today" things.

Well. When was the last time you spent a whole day asking the Lord what HE wants you to do today? When was the last time you made a conscious effort to give him your first fruits in an active way instead of a passive way?

Some of you might consistently live that way but for me it's like working out. I get tired and end up being passive unless something "directly" stands out. No, I don't mean like being a "sunday christian" only...I mean just "doing life"

I'm not going to get into legalistic "Sabbath keeping" but would draw attention to "remembering the Sabbath and keeping it holy".

There are a lot of legal elements to the Sabbath but under the law of liberty I don't think a lot of these strictly apply to probably anyone except possibly to understand the law a little deeper. You CANNOT know what the Sabbath was within context of breaking it leading to execution. That doesn't exist anymore in a physical sense (extremely likely not in any other sense either btw)...so I think you can fall into pharasaical nonsense by attempting it. I have attempted it and it can get ugly. So yeah, Don't.

But to set aside one day a week to put forth more effort like "leg day" at the gym or something? No reason not to consider if that would be beneficial to your walk.

No, I don't mean working in a physical sense but that element may be good for some and the Lord's will for your life but I don't want to get into that element of the Sabbath either.

An extra effort toward holiness and "taking spiritual inventory" in a structured, disciplined, weekly way. To put to death the flesh when most see friday and saturday as time to "treat yourself". Look for the Lord's treats...not movies, tv, games, etc. etc. etc.

Pretty similar to fasting quite frankly (though my experience with water only fasting is limited).

There's a LOT to say and it is pretty complex for me at times and I do fall into error about it either in the pharasaical extreme or the lukewarm extreme but that's true with a lot of things in my life at times.

I don't want to even post about this topic most times because I don't want to lead anyone astray either direction but for me it is about understanding the heart of the law and NOT the letter (since that definitely kills).

studentoftheword · Nov 21, 2021

DavidTree said:

I say -----

In all you said above you have not given one scripture that says God told --Adam or Eve or Noah Or Abraham to observe the Sabbath day or they will die in Genesis ----

This is what you posted above that Genesis 2:1-3 says -----

Your Quote here -----Genesis 2:1-3 is not about God needing to rest as we need it for our physical bodies.

I say -----that is not what it says in Genesis 2:1-3-----you are adding your own words to the Scripture so you can justify what you said -----Now here is the thing DavidTree ---you have said yourself that we should stick with the Word and not twist or add or subtract our words to the Scripture ----and here you do just that ----so this shows how easy it is for us all to be Hypocrites by telling others they should not do what we tend to do ourselves ------

This is that Scripture Genesis 2:1-3 and this is really what it says ----

Genesis 2 NIV

2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.

3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

I say
Nothing is said about what you added here to this scripture

is not about God needing to rest as we need it for our physical bodies.

David Tree ---your quote here from above -----There was no death sentence prescribed to the seventh day of rest by God before the Law.

I say -----How do you know that ---did you read God's mind to know that God wouldn't have imputed death on not observing the Sabbath on anyone before the Law -----

Show me the Scripture where God says in Genesis before the Law that you have to observe the Sabbath Day but I will not impute death on anyone who does not keep it ------

Again you are using your own thoughts here as there is no Scripture to support what you say -------

Just saying Brother ----we all are trying to understand Scripture at our own pace what you see in the Scripture is what you see and understand ----others may see it differently as they may not be where you are at in their Faith walk with Christ ----We will only know the Real truth when we pass on to the Spiritual realm and meet our Creator until then we should all try and be respectful of how others see and understand Scripture ---

Peace Brother

God says this in His Word -----Good Advice here for us all

2 Timothy 2 NIV ---read all to get the Context of the scripture -----

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Timothy 2&version=NIV

23 Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.

24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.

DavidTree · Nov 21, 2021

studentoftheword said:

I say -----

In all you said above you have not given one scripture that says God told --Adam or Eve or Noah Or Abraham to observe the Sabbath day or they will die in Genesis ----

This is what you posted above that Genesis 2:1-3 says -----

Your Quote here -----Genesis 2:1-3 is not about God needing to rest as we need it for our physical bodies.

I say -----that is not what it says in Genesis 2:1-3-----you are adding your own words to the Scripture so you can justify what you said -----Now here is the thing DavidTree ---you have said yourself that we should stick with the Word and not twist or add or subtract our words to the Scripture ----and here you do just that ----so this shows how easy it is for us all to be Hypocrites by telling others they should not do what we tend to do ourselves ------

This is that Scripture Genesis 2:1-3 and this is really what it says ----

Genesis 2 NIV

2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.

3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

I say
Nothing is said about what you added here to this scripture

is not about God needing to rest as we need it for our physical bodies.

David Tree ---your quote here from above -----There was no death sentence prescribed to the seventh day of rest by God before the Law.

I say -----How do you know that ---did you read God's mind to know that God wouldn't have imputed death on not observing the Sabbath on anyone before the Law -----

Show me the Scripture where God says in Genesis before the Law that you have to observe the Sabbath Day but I will not impute death on anyone who does not keep it ------

Again you are using your own thoughts here as there is no Scripture to support what you say -------

Just saying Brother ----we all are trying to understand Scripture at our own pace what you see in the Scripture is what you see and understand ----others may see it differently as they may not be where you are at in their Faith walk with Christ ----We will only know the Real truth when we pass on to the Spiritual realm and meet our Creator until then we should all try and be respectful of how others see and understand Scripture ---

Peace Brother

God says this in His Word -----Good Advice here for us all

2 Timothy 2 NIV ---read all to get the Context of the scripture -----

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Timothy 2&version=NIV

23 Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.

24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.

3 Things
#1 you are a liar and you need to repent from this.
#2 - you are ignorant of Scripture and yet you boast a mouth full of pride - repent from this as well

#3. Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth.
He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom. Isaiah 40:28

studentoftheword · Nov 21, 2021

DavidTree said:

I say ---Thank you for your kind words -----they made my day

DavidTree · Nov 21, 2021

studentoftheword said:

When you add to somebody's words which they did not say - you do this from an evil heart, seeking to make that person out to being dishonest/liar, which you did against my words.

You were given kind words and you trampled them under your feet in pride.

You followed in Eve's footsteps in the Garden - repent

Magenta · Nov 21, 2021

Mii said:

There's a LOT to say and it is pretty complex for me at times and I do fall into error about it either in the pharasaical extreme or the lukewarm extreme but that's true with a lot of things in my life at times.

I don't want to even post about this topic most times because I don't want to lead anyone astray either direction but for me it is about understanding the heart of the law and NOT the letter (since that definitely kills).

Romans 13:10

Magenta · Nov 21, 2021

studentoftheword said:

DavidTree said no such thing, in fact, quite the opposite!

DavidTree said:

He goes on to say:

"Once the Law was established thru Moses, the penalty for not resting on the sabbath was DEATH."

DavidTree · Nov 21, 2021

Magenta said:

Thank you my Sister - her posting was heavy on my heart this morning.

Thank you for your love and forgive me if i responded heatedly from the sorrow.

Magenta · Nov 21, 2021

DavidTree said:

You are welcome, David. Truly I do not understand how someone can engage with another over such
a period of time and then completely fail to grasp the heart of what has been consistently put forth.

I suppose one could say there is a blindness at work and maybe even a deliberate desire to misconstrue.

What puzzles me also are those who go on and on about keeping the Sabbath as if those of us who
worship God in Spirit and in Truth every single day of our lives do not keep it. Really perplexing.

Magenta · Nov 21, 2021

We even had one Sabbath pusher here a while back who claimed that worshiping God on Sunday
broke a commandment!!! Of course when his ludicrous statement was challenged, he refused to
address the fact that there is no such commandment restricting worship of God to one day a week.
Nor did he apologize for his falsehood. The commandment does not even say that the Sabbath is
for worship; it is for REST. And it does indeed foreshadow the resting from our work to attain to
salvation, the rest that Jesus offers to those who by grace through faith are saved. Praise the Lord!

Matthew 11:28-30

Magenta · Nov 21, 2021

TMS said:

The law remains to condemn those who are not saved.

Because we have the grace of Jesus, we are not condemned.

Is that difficult to understand?

DavidTree · Nov 21, 2021

Magenta said:

OH Dear Sister, what you said here was the whole reason for this Thread - for everyone to understand that we cannot be saved either by the Law, which brings death, or by our own works of religion(Saturday vs Sunday/ work or not to work) that will will never please God.

So that we may REST in the finished work (Genesis ch2) that HE FINISHED for us, so that we can have REST.

Come to ME all that are heavy laden and I will give you REST - amen - Thank You LORD.

i was longing for someone to SEE this here:

As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. And a voice from heaven said,
“This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!” Matthew 3:16

Is this a mere coincidence between Matthew 3:16 and John 3:16 = not coincidence but REST from Above

Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, “So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’” And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. Hebrews 4:3

TMS · Nov 21, 2021

DavidTree said:

You are thinking that Col 2 is nailing the 10 commandments to the cross.
i have shown in great detail from the word of God that this is not the case.
The bible does not contradict itself.

i am not going to nail the wonderful gift which is also a command to the cross when Jesus never intended it to be nailed to the cross.
i will explain it from the bible again....

TMS · Nov 21, 2021

A law was made obsolete at the cross but it was not the law of liberty or the ten commandments.
If you take time to look at the laws that were given, there is a difference.

Two laws

The Moral law, the ten commandments, the law of liberty, are what define sin, and were here before sin.

Isa 5:24 The Law of God
Deu 4:12 spoken by God,
Deu 10:3,4, Ex 31:18, 32:16 Written by God On stone,
Deu 10:1-5, Kept inside the ark.
James 2:11 law of liberty,
James 2:12 will be judged by the law
Rom 7:14,19 Spiritual,
Ps 111:7,8 Luke 16:17, Matt 5:18 Eternal, Unchangeable
1 John 3:4 points out sin,
Ps 19:7,9,10 perfect, true
Ecc 12:13 The whole duty of man
Pro 29:18, 1 John 5:3 for our Happiness, not burdensome
Proverbs 3:1, 2 for long life and peace
Ps 119:172 Righteousness
Rom 13:10 Love
James 2:10-12 Judges all
Rom 7:12, 1 Tim 1:8, Holy, Just and Good

The Ceremonial law, the laws of Moses, The laws of sacrifices, and offerings, etc. introduced because of sin, shows the solution for sin, after sin. (These laws include many Sabbaths)

Luke 2:22, The Law of Moses
Eph 2:15, contained in ordinances
Lev 1:1-3 Spoken by Moses,
2 Chro 35:12, Deut 31:9, 24 Written by Moses, written in a book,
Deut 31:26 Kept outside the ark,
Eph 2:15 Ended at the cross
Gal 3:19 Added because of Sin
Gal 5:1 Col 2:14, Yoke of bondage, against us and contrary to us
Col 2:14-16, Judges no one
Heb 7:16 Carnal, fleshly
Heb 7:12 temporary,
Lev 4:27-31, John 1:29 points to saviour,
Heb 7:19 made nothing perfect
Col 2:14 Not good

Now please don't ignore this, If you put all these laws together and refer to them as the same it would cause confusion.
This confusion is why so many throw out the ten with the rest.

God's Sabbath Rest - Mission Impossible

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