How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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where is Christ and all the saved Christians? Earth. WRONG! Jesus remains in heaven during the entire 70th week. That is POST means! He does not return to earth (to touch down) until AFTER the trib. So where is Jesus and where will the church be during the 70th week? In heaven. He said "where I am" when speaking of the homes He went to prepare. It is not "where I am" in the air above the earth. Where did He say He went? He went to the place where the mansions are made. That is where He "am."
how can you possibly get to the marriage and supper which will be in heaven? You can't. Post-trib is a man made, non-biblical, Eisegesis filled nonsense doctrine. You have one scripture, stretched to the breaking point imagining that when God says "gathering" there can only be ONE and it MUST be Paul's gathering. Never mind where it gathers from. Never mind that the timing does not match. It says "gathering" so it MUST be Paul's gathering. Eisegesis all over post trib thinking!
Why not just believe Paul? He is the one who received the revelation of the rapture.
how can you possibly get to the marriage and supper which will be in heaven? You can't. Post-trib is a man made, non-biblical, Eisegesis filled nonsense doctrine. You have one scripture, stretched to the breaking point imagining that when God says "gathering" there can only be ONE and it MUST be Paul's gathering. Never mind where it gathers from. Never mind that the timing does not match. It says "gathering" so it MUST be Paul's gathering. Eisegesis all over post trib thinking!
Why not just believe Paul? He is the one who received the revelation of the rapture.
Stop perverting the Gospel by falsely claiming a 'Gentile Church' - are you a Roman Catholic?
i want you to see how ungodly it is to make such a statement in the Light of Scripture.
God says there is Jew and Gentile in the world. Both are under the death of sin.
"But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe." Gal 3:22
Nowhere is Scripture can you find a "Gentile Church".
God says HE has One Church called the Body of Christ/His Elect/His Saints
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
When separate the Body of Christ with the error of pre-trib you are doing what the devil did in the Garden.
i warned you that pre-trib is of satan and leads from one error to a avalanche of errors
pre-trib rapture NEVER came out from the Mouth of God - the sooner you recognize this the sooner God will help you to SEE.
Do you think that this passage of Scripture was by CHANCE - Matthew 4:3-4
Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”
The Tempter has infiltrated the churches with his lie of pre-trib and few have rebuked him as Jesus taught us to.
i want you to see how ungodly it is to make such a statement in the Light of Scripture.
God says there is Jew and Gentile in the world. Both are under the death of sin.
"But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe." Gal 3:22
Nowhere is Scripture can you find a "Gentile Church".
God says HE has One Church called the Body of Christ/His Elect/His Saints
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
When separate the Body of Christ with the error of pre-trib you are doing what the devil did in the Garden.
i warned you that pre-trib is of satan and leads from one error to a avalanche of errors
pre-trib rapture NEVER came out from the Mouth of God - the sooner you recognize this the sooner God will help you to SEE.
Do you think that this passage of Scripture was by CHANCE - Matthew 4:3-4
Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”
The Tempter has infiltrated the churches with his lie of pre-trib and few have rebuked him as Jesus taught us to.
You are still misrepresenting the passage. He spoke about the mansions in heaven BEFORE talking about coming to the believers on the Earth. He DID NOT say he would bring them back to heaven. You are inserting that into the verse which is called Eisegesis. There is NOTHING supporting a pre-trib rapture there.
What is your next supposed pre-trib proof text? I will show you how you are misunderstanding that one as well.
Rather, it is amazing how you ignore all pretrib proof shown. It seems you are determined to ignore God's escape plan, face the Beast, and lose your head. I believe God will honor your faith.
Once again, did Paul put the DAY before his rapture, or His rapture before the DAY?
Where does John start the Day of the Lord? In chapter 6 or in chapter 19?
Once again, did Paul put the DAY before his rapture, or His rapture before the DAY?
Where does John start the Day of the Lord? In chapter 6 or in chapter 19?
Why do you persist by saying post trib is man-made? Are you read to give an account of your falsehood?
Do you not realize what you are saying of the LORD Jesus Christ who says:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Why not believe Paul who said the same - 1 Thess & 2 Thess
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not realize what you are saying of the LORD Jesus Christ who says:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Why not believe Paul who said the same - 1 Thess & 2 Thess
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Where does the Lord say pre-trib rapture of His Elect in the Gospel?
Did you read Rev ch6 - all of it?
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
You are not able to comprehend Revelation. In order to understand ch6 you must go on to ch7 -20
Revelation is in AGREEMENT with Matthew 24, 1Thess & 2Thess , 1John 2:14-19 , James ch5 , and the Prophets Noah,Daniel and Job.
Did you read Rev ch6 - all of it?
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
You are not able to comprehend Revelation. In order to understand ch6 you must go on to ch7 -20
Revelation is in AGREEMENT with Matthew 24, 1Thess & 2Thess , 1John 2:14-19 , James ch5 , and the Prophets Noah,Daniel and Job.
OK, let's see the verse the way you imagine it.
2 In my Father's house [in heaven] are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to [heaven to] prepare a place for you [in heaven].
3 And if I go [to heaven] and prepare a place for you [in heaven], I will come again [to the air], and receive you unto myself [in the air]; that where I am [going, on the earth], there [on the earth] ye may be also.
Is this really the intent of the author here? How silly it would be for Jesus to go to heaven to prepare places (abodes, mansions) for us, and then in the same passage ignore them and come to earth.
No, the intent of the author is this:
2 In my Father's house [in heaven] are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to [heaven to] prepare a place for you [in heaven]. 3 And if I go [to heaven] and prepare a place for you [in heaven], I will come again [to the air], and receive you unto myself [in the air]; that where I am [I AM IN HEAVEN], there [in heaven] ye may be also.
It seems you can ignore this perfect picture of a Groom coming to get His bride and take her to the homes he has prepared.
The same "I AM" word is used here:
Jhn 7:28 - Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: G1510 and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. (In English we would be more likely to say "where I came from.")
Here is another use of the same word:
Jhn 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. G1510
It is a present tense verb because God is ALWAYS present tense. Where "am" (was) Jesus when He caused John to write? He was in heaven.
Taking the entire verse in context, I believe this fits a pretrib rapture just as it has been used for many years. I cannot justify ignoring His preparations of homes for His bride to just ignore then in the second half of the passage.
2 In my Father's house [in heaven] are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to [heaven to] prepare a place for you [in heaven].
3 And if I go [to heaven] and prepare a place for you [in heaven], I will come again [to the air], and receive you unto myself [in the air]; that where I am [going, on the earth], there [on the earth] ye may be also.
Is this really the intent of the author here? How silly it would be for Jesus to go to heaven to prepare places (abodes, mansions) for us, and then in the same passage ignore them and come to earth.
No, the intent of the author is this:
2 In my Father's house [in heaven] are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to [heaven to] prepare a place for you [in heaven]. 3 And if I go [to heaven] and prepare a place for you [in heaven], I will come again [to the air], and receive you unto myself [in the air]; that where I am [I AM IN HEAVEN], there [in heaven] ye may be also.
It seems you can ignore this perfect picture of a Groom coming to get His bride and take her to the homes he has prepared.
The same "I AM" word is used here:
Jhn 7:28 - Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: G1510 and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. (In English we would be more likely to say "where I came from.")
Here is another use of the same word:
Jhn 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. G1510
It is a present tense verb because God is ALWAYS present tense. Where "am" (was) Jesus when He caused John to write? He was in heaven.
Taking the entire verse in context, I believe this fits a pretrib rapture just as it has been used for many years. I cannot justify ignoring His preparations of homes for His bride to just ignore then in the second half of the passage.
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Why do you insist God must give it to you word for word? I could ask the same thing. "Where does the Lord say post-trib rapture of His Elect in the Gospel?" We have to work with WHAT IS WRITTEN. And we must approach the written word with NO PRECONCEPTIONS.
AGain I ask you the question you keep dodging: In Paul's classic rapture passage of 1 Thes. 4: did Paul put the rapture first before the DAY, or did He put the DAY first before the rapture?
Did John see this great crowd too large to number BEFORE the trib, or AFTER?
“How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” If these were 70th week martyrs, it would be a silly question: they would KNOW that God was already judging: they would know they were in the 70th week. It is very plain that these are church age martyrs.
If you understood John's chronology, you would know that Jesus took the book and began opening the seals as soon as He ascended - around 32 AD. We can be sure, Stephen was one of those martyrs. What is the TIMING of the 5th seal? Probably when Stephen was stoned.
I suspect you still don't know where we are NOW in Revelation. Many saints today IMAGINE we are between chapters 3 & 4. They are very mistaken.
AGain I ask you the question you keep dodging: In Paul's classic rapture passage of 1 Thes. 4: did Paul put the rapture first before the DAY, or did He put the DAY first before the rapture?
Did John see this great crowd too large to number BEFORE the trib, or AFTER?
“How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” If these were 70th week martyrs, it would be a silly question: they would KNOW that God was already judging: they would know they were in the 70th week. It is very plain that these are church age martyrs.
If you understood John's chronology, you would know that Jesus took the book and began opening the seals as soon as He ascended - around 32 AD. We can be sure, Stephen was one of those martyrs. What is the TIMING of the 5th seal? Probably when Stephen was stoned.
I suspect you still don't know where we are NOW in Revelation. Many saints today IMAGINE we are between chapters 3 & 4. They are very mistaken.
Yes, Paul shows us the rapture before Wrath, and that fits perfectly with Revelation: wrath starting at the 6th seal, and John seeing the church in heaven shortly after the 6th seal.
The prophets tell us that God has promised to gather of of the descendants of Jacob back to Israel, and Jesus shows us that gathering in His end time discourse.
Of course every end time passage agrees with every other. However, a posttrib rapture theory agrees with nothing in the scripture as far as I can see. Can you PROVE a posttrib rapture of the church with scripture?
Can you show us in scripture how the church will get to heaven in a posttrib rapture scenario?
Can you explain with scripture how Jesus will find sheep in natural bodies for the sheep and goat judgment in a posttrib rapture scenario?
I think you will find, if you can lay out scripture backing up a posttrib rapture, people would agree with you.
The prophets tell us that God has promised to gather of of the descendants of Jacob back to Israel, and Jesus shows us that gathering in His end time discourse.
Of course every end time passage agrees with every other. However, a posttrib rapture theory agrees with nothing in the scripture as far as I can see. Can you PROVE a posttrib rapture of the church with scripture?
Can you show us in scripture how the church will get to heaven in a posttrib rapture scenario?
Can you explain with scripture how Jesus will find sheep in natural bodies for the sheep and goat judgment in a posttrib rapture scenario?
I think you will find, if you can lay out scripture backing up a posttrib rapture, people would agree with you.
Dear Brother if you say pre-trib you are saying that the Lord Jesus Christ is lying. Are you comfortable with that?
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” John 16
Matthew 24
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.
Acts 14
And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, 22strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying,
“We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”
Revelation 2:10
Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’
Unplug your ears from the lie of pre-trib.
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” John 16
Matthew 24
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.
Acts 14
And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, 22strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying,
“We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”
Revelation 2:10
Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’
Unplug your ears from the lie of pre-trib.
You asked ""Where does the Lord say post-trib rapture of His Elect in the Gospel?"
Matt 24:29-31
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matt 24:29-31
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
You keep quoting "“Immediately after the tribulation of those days" and relating it to Paul's rapture - as if they are the same timing. However, you have never provide ANY scriptural proof that the gathering in Matthew 24 is Paul's rapture. It cannot be for several reasons. First, the TIMING does not agree. Second, the ANGELS do not agree. Third, the gathering PLACE does not agree. Fourth, the signs in the sun and moon do not agree. I wonder, have you ever noticed all these points of disagreement? Perhaps you have never looked.
There's at least 2000 years inbetween his mansion building in heaven and his second coming which he speaks of. Plus, the second coming does not stop at the clouds. He descends to the Earth and will step on the ground at some point.
The other fact remains that Jesus does not say when he comes, that he takes anyone to heaven. You add that into the passage with your commentary but the verse does not support what you claim happens.
Heaven is not home he takes his bride to. The Earth is where they are taken, to Jerusalem specifically.
The other fact remains that Jesus does not say when he comes, that he takes anyone to heaven. You add that into the passage with your commentary but the verse does not support what you claim happens.
Heaven is not home he takes his bride to. The Earth is where they are taken, to Jerusalem specifically.
John does not see the Resurrected Church in Heaven - this is another pre-trib error.
When Saints die in the Lord the Spirits of the Saints go to Heaven.
We are seeing the SPIRITS of the SAINTS who have DIED in HEAVEN = 1 Thess 4:13-14 2 Cor 5:8
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
When Saints die in the Lord the Spirits of the Saints go to Heaven.
We are seeing the SPIRITS of the SAINTS who have DIED in HEAVEN = 1 Thess 4:13-14 2 Cor 5:8
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
It all AGREES and the APostle Paul stressing this POINT - 2 Thess 2
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
5Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 6And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
5Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 6And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.
if you say pre-trib you are saying that the Lord Jesus Christ is lying. No! That is only your wild imagination. I am very comfortable with your wild imagination. I will try to steer you right, but you have to be willing.
In the world you will have tribulation Yes, of course! There has been 2000 years of combined tribulation. God called that "mega" in relation to the Great crowd too large to number - the raptured church seen in heaven. Have you ever read the commentaries on the words "these are those who have come out of great tribulation...?" John was not talking about the days of GT Jesus spoke of. He was talking about the daily tribulation the saints have been putting up with for 2000 years. Now that is MEGA!
However, that being said, when the Beast rules the word, and begins forcing people to bow to his image and receive His mark, then will come the days of GT Jesus spoke of, that will be greater than any other time ever in history or future.
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you Did you get the timing for this phrase? Jesus said, "the end is not yet," meaning, He was talking church age then, NOT THE END TIMES. This has been happening to the Jews since Jesus said it.
Take off your preconceived glasses and allow the Word to speak: Paul places his gathering before the start of the DAY. That means the rapture MUST COME before the 6th seal. Paul said His rapture would come before wrath, and wrath starts with the DAY. Again, that is chapter 6, not chapter 19. I think you don't believe John.
In the world you will have tribulation Yes, of course! There has been 2000 years of combined tribulation. God called that "mega" in relation to the Great crowd too large to number - the raptured church seen in heaven. Have you ever read the commentaries on the words "these are those who have come out of great tribulation...?" John was not talking about the days of GT Jesus spoke of. He was talking about the daily tribulation the saints have been putting up with for 2000 years. Now that is MEGA!
However, that being said, when the Beast rules the word, and begins forcing people to bow to his image and receive His mark, then will come the days of GT Jesus spoke of, that will be greater than any other time ever in history or future.
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you Did you get the timing for this phrase? Jesus said, "the end is not yet," meaning, He was talking church age then, NOT THE END TIMES. This has been happening to the Jews since Jesus said it.
Take off your preconceived glasses and allow the Word to speak: Paul places his gathering before the start of the DAY. That means the rapture MUST COME before the 6th seal. Paul said His rapture would come before wrath, and wrath starts with the DAY. Again, that is chapter 6, not chapter 19. I think you don't believe John.
Another MEGA lie coming from your pre-trib lie
"John was not talking about the days of GT Jesus spoke of. He was talking about the daily tribulation the saints have been putting up with for 2000 years. Now that is MEGA!"
OH YES THEY WERE - the LORD, PAUL and JOHN were all speaking of ALL Saints who will suffer Persecution/Death/Tribulation that will continue right up to HIS Second Coming - Immediately after the Tribulation of those days.
JESUS said it in Matt ch24
Paul said it in 2 Thess ch2
John said it in 1 John 2:14-19
James said it in chapter 5
God said it thru these THREE Prophets - NOAH, DANIEL and JOB
Brother, you have believed a lie for so long you believe it to be gospel when it is the furthest thing from God, Truth and His Word.
"John was not talking about the days of GT Jesus spoke of. He was talking about the daily tribulation the saints have been putting up with for 2000 years. Now that is MEGA!"
OH YES THEY WERE - the LORD, PAUL and JOHN were all speaking of ALL Saints who will suffer Persecution/Death/Tribulation that will continue right up to HIS Second Coming - Immediately after the Tribulation of those days.
JESUS said it in Matt ch24
Paul said it in 2 Thess ch2
John said it in 1 John 2:14-19
James said it in chapter 5
God said it thru these THREE Prophets - NOAH, DANIEL and JOB
Brother, you have believed a lie for so long you believe it to be gospel when it is the furthest thing from God, Truth and His Word.