Once Saved Always Saved is True.

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#21
Believe me, it's deeply rooted in the Independent Baptists as well. The Independent Baptists are the offspring of the fundamentalists.

With the ever changing stand of organized religion, not all still hold that stand. Today it's a whoever believes whatever!
Independent Baptist believe salvation can be lost?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#22
I agree with once saved always saved.. but Paul being the first to be saved?

What about God saving sinners by grace in the Old Testament?

It was a different way of serving God in the OT.. but a different way of salvation?

I don't think scripture supports salvation by grace thru faith only in the New Testament
Romans 10
1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
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#23
No I am not a Calvinist, but I believe that the New Birth is supernatural and irreversible. That is exactly what the Bible says (Titus 3:4-7):

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

We see here that the New Birth (regeneration) cannot be separated from eternal life, since the children of God are also heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ.
Let me show you how you are splitting the fence, so to speak!

You believe man has free will to choose Christ, but does not have free will to go back on Christ!

That's not the way it works. Either you believe man has free will, or you believe Calvin's teaching that man has no free will!
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
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#24
Independent Baptist believe salvation can be lost?
No! they believe OSAS! I did also until I began to study the scripture and found that if man has a choice to choose Christ, he also has the choice to reject him after salvation. This is what the book of Hebrews is all about!
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,229
1,125
113
New Zealand
#25
I was raised an Independent Baptist, I was taken to church 3 times a week for as far back as I can remember as a child until I became a man and went out on my own. I have heard OSAS all my life, literally hundreds of times.

It is true in one respect, as long as you have faith in Jesus Christ, what He did for us on the Cross, you cannot lose your salvation!

There is a BUT applied to this! There are those who for whatever hardship endured through life, have lost their faith in Christ, no longer believing in His redemption! This has severed the lifeline of salvation by grace through faith. No faith--no salvation!
'He who endured to the end shall be saved '

Context around this is not about eternal salvation but salvation as is in rescue from trials and hardship
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
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#28
'He who endured to the end shall be saved '

Context around this is not about eternal salvation but salvation as is in rescue from trials and hardship
Yes, that is what Jesus meant, I agree!

Paul gives the example of keeping salvation to the end when he was facing execution in 2 Tim. 4:7.

"I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith."

Paul kept his faith to the end! All of us must do the same!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#29
No! they believe OSAS! I did also until I began to study the scripture and found that if man has a choice to choose Christ, he also has the choice to reject him after salvation. This is what the book of Hebrews is all about!
Rightly divide the word of truth...Hebrews is not a doctrinal book for the body of Christ, but to the Jews in the last days.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#30
Yes, that is what Jesus meant, I agree!

Paul gives the example of keeping salvation to the end when he was facing execution in 2 Tim. 4:7.

"I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith."

Paul kept his faith to the end! All of us must do the same!
“The faith” meaning his obedience to the doctrine given to the body of Christ, not his faith in Jesus.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
63
#31
Rightly divide the word of truth...Hebrews is not a doctrinal book for the body of Christ, but to the Jews in the last days.
Hebrews was written as a case for Christ, who He is, what He has done, for the Jews who had accepted Christ and then under pressure from the Judaists, turned back to the Law, thereby rejecting Christ putting Him to open shame!
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
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63
#32
“The faith” meaning his obedience to the doctrine given to the body of Christ, not his faith in Jesus.
Paul's faith was in Christ, there can be no mistake of that!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#34
Hebrews was written as a case for Christ, who He is, what He has done, for the Jews who had accepted Christ and then under pressure from the Judaists, turned back to the Law, thereby rejecting Christ putting Him to open shame!
Written to the Jews, not Christians.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
63
#36
Yes, but the phrase “the faith” is not a reference to his faith in Christ, rather living in obedience.
Living in obedience comes from our faith in Christ.
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
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#37
God cannot lie. That is what I read in Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

That is written for us who read the knowledge of God, the scriptures, given to us by Christ, who gave it to Paul our apostle.

God has promised eternal life before the world began.

Eternal life has been sought by man for centuries. Yet here we read that God has already promised it before the world began.

God still offers eternal life today through Christ and His sacrifice for our sins.

Did you know Paul was the first sinner to get saved.

1Ti_1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Paul believed what God had done for us, Christ died for our sins.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

We still have the same gospel today, for you to have eternal life you need to believe the gospel above.

You will be saved and sealed by God the moment you believe it.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The moment a sinner believes, they are saved and sealed, they have died and have been raised with Christ and seated with Christ
Nothing can separate us from the love of Christ.

Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Once Saved Always Saved has it origins in John Calvin. It is a false doctrine and the reason so many of our churches are so dead--they do not believe what Christ said: "If you love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

We see pastors and other church leaders addicted to pornography, living for years in willful sin--think Ravi Zacharias, pedophilia--abusing money, abusing those in the church, pastors and believers committing suicide, believers who live like those in the world, unmarried couples living together, having sex before marriage, getting drunk, watching and listening to things that no Christian has business watching and listening to, accepting so many things of the world that God calls SIN- on and on and on. Why? because of the false doctrine of Eternal Security.

There are numerous verses that say we must abide in Christ and if we don't will be "cast into the fire"--that is the same DESTRUCTION that happens to the wicked.

This is spoken to believers:

"If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."--John 15:6

" “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.” --Hebrews 6:4-6

"19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins."--Jame 5:19-20


Bible verse refuting Eternal Security: https://www.bible.ca/cal-P-refutation.htm
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
#38
No I am not a Calvinist, but I believe that the New Birth is supernatural and irreversible. That is exactly what the Bible says (Titus 3:4-7):

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

We see here that the New Birth (regeneration) cannot be separated from eternal life, since the children of God are also heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ.

I say this all the time and I will say it again--we must test scripture against scripture and not isolate verses. Once Saved Always Saved is not about dotting I's and crossing T's--why do people always go that direction? It is not about following the law, as if you could make one false move and your are damned. THAT IS NOT IT. It is about living in WILLFUL ONGOING SIN--it is living the life you lived before your were saved or WORSE. It is about NO LONGER ABIDING in Christ. Christ was very clear, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." Hebrews says if a person goes back to a life of sin, there is no more covering for that sin. Please see my other post with verses refuting OSAS.
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
#39
Written to the Jews, not Christians.

John, are you serious? Paul was a Jew who wrote most of the Epistles. ALL of the Epistles are written to BELIEVERS, whether Jew OR Gentile--therefore they are ALL CHRISTIANS--Christians anyone who follows CHRIST. All of the 12 apostles were JEWISH. The first believers were JEWISH.

"28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."--Galatians 3:28

Why We Know Hebrews Was Written to Believers
There are eight reasons to believe the entire book of Hebrews was written to believers (i.e., to those who have eternal life):

First, the writer calls the audience “holy brethren” (Heb 3:1).

Second, the writer describes himself and his readers (“we”) as ones who “have faith” (Heb 10:39). This would be true only of believers.

Third, readers are referred to as “sons” who have a relationship with God the Father (Heb 12:5, 7, 8). Unbelievers, professing to believe or otherwise, do not have a “son” relationship with God the Father until they are adopted and have eternal life (Gal 4:5).

Fourth, the author did not exhort readers to “believe in Jesus for eternal life” anywhere in Hebrews. The starting point for unbelievers is to place their faith in Jesus Christ for the gift of eternal life (John 3:16; Rom 6:23).

Fifth, the author did exhort (Heb 13:22) readers to “press on to maturity” (Heb 6:1) in the faith they already possessed (Heb 6:4-5). To exhort unbelievers to “press on to maturity” makes no sense. Without faith in Christ there is no life to be matured!

Sixth, the readers went through sufferings, reproaches, and tribulations for their faith (Heb 10:32-33). They even “accepted joyfully the seizure of [their] property” (10:34 NASB). It seems unlikely that unbelievers would be willing to go through these things for a nonexistent faith.

Seventh, in each of the five warning passages, the writer uses first person plural pronouns (us or we); he includes himself with the readers. Because the author was a believer in Jesus Christ, this is noteworthy. He views the warnings as applicable to both himself, as a believer, and to his readers, also believers. Had the warnings been for “professing” believers/unbelievers, he would not have included himself. For example, Heb 10:26 says, “For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.” The writer sees “sinning willfully”— a return to animal sacrifices as a means for atonement, Heb 10:29— as something which he, as a believer, could commit, as could the believers he is writing to. After the five warning passages below are the verses containing “us” and/or “we” demonstrating the author included himself in the warning.

https://faithalone.org/grace-in-focus-articles/why-it-matters-that-hebrews-was-written-to-believers/