Of course, obedience is not salvation, faith is salvation with obedience following.
The old saying holds true, we don't work to get saved, we work because we are saved.
Once Saved Always Saved is True.
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Of course, obedience is not salvation, faith is salvation with obedience following.
The old saying holds true, we don't work to get saved, we work because we are saved.
Please see my post #38 and my other post regarding verses refuting OSAS. It is not about following the law, rather it is about a WILLFUL turning away from Christ and returning to a life of SIN or WORSE. It is ALSO trying to achieve your own Righteousness instead of Christ being your righteousness-that is surrender to HIM and allow Him to transform you.
Here we go again.
As will be posted in this thread (again), there are verses that say salvation can and cannot be 'lost'.
The key is looking at how they are divided ... there are the things God does, then there are the things we do.
GOD will never let us go.
But we can walk away.
If you take ALL of the scriptures pertaining to the subject, and study them with an open mind, that is the only conclusion you can come to.
If you come to any other conclusion, you have dismissed many scriptures to do so.
As will be posted in this thread (again), there are verses that say salvation can and cannot be 'lost'.
The key is looking at how they are divided ... there are the things God does, then there are the things we do.
GOD will never let us go.
But we can walk away.
If you take ALL of the scriptures pertaining to the subject, and study them with an open mind, that is the only conclusion you can come to.
If you come to any other conclusion, you have dismissed many scriptures to do so.
Some of these believers had their faith overthrown by false teaching, yet Paul reminds that the foundation of God standeth sure. They were sealed with the Holy Spirit and nothing can take that from them.
See 2 Timothy 2
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Thankfully, the foundation of God stands sure even when we don’t.
It is not proper to compare Paul’s teaching to the body of Christ to the book of Hebrews teaching Jewish doctrine in the last days, the tribulation.
Well if you post verses that contradict the gospel of Christ, you have not believed in His gospel.
You have not obeyed Christ.
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Hebrews was not written to me as a member of the body of Christ.
John was not written to the body of Christ either. Same with James.
You need to get saved by believing the gospel given to Paul by Christ.
Can it possibly be true that once saved we cam never reject Christ and when scripture speaks of this then scripture is just blowing smoke? That just can't possibly be. Scripture is truth and scripture says unforgiven sin kills. It does not say that once a person is forgiven sin they may go ahead and live in sin, they are forever saved. Nor does it say that once a person accepts Christ they will always accept Christ as their Savior. In fact, it speaks of people who do just that.
Hey, that's a low blow claiming we are not saved because we don't agree with you!
No fair taking it to that level, my friend!
3 Questions and a statement.
I have shown you Paul was the first to be saved. He says it in 1Ti_1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Those before Paul were not saved. They shall be in the future. They were all Kingdom Gospel Saints.
Your second question is answered. Before Paul the kingdom gospel was preached by Christ and the apostles.
They shall be saved when Christ returns after the tribulation period.
Your third question is not a question, but a statement.
I posted scripture if you don't agree with it, that is your problem.
You can take it up with the Lord at His judgement seat.
2Co_5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
You also said we need to get saved! You can quote all the scripture you like, but you are not the judge of our salvation.
Especially since we disagree with your OP!
Technically, if someone falls away from the faith, they either did not have salvation previously or else they lost salvation when they lost their faith.
The argument of which one it is seems to me to be a moot point. For, either way, if someone does not have faith in the present moment, they do not have salvation in the present moment. This is agreed to by both the Arminian viewpoint and the orthodox Calvinist viewpoint.
There is also an unorthodox OSAS viewpoint that says you will continue to have salvation even if you lose faith.
That is not a scriptural viewpoint...it is even a heinous doctrine of devils.
For we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:2) and we are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8).
Therefore, if we do not have faith, we do not have access to grace and are therefore not saved.
Whether we were saved before or not is not the issue.
Let's try of focus on what is important...exhorting the unbeliever to have faith in Jesus.
The argument of which one it is seems to me to be a moot point. For, either way, if someone does not have faith in the present moment, they do not have salvation in the present moment. This is agreed to by both the Arminian viewpoint and the orthodox Calvinist viewpoint.
There is also an unorthodox OSAS viewpoint that says you will continue to have salvation even if you lose faith.
That is not a scriptural viewpoint...it is even a heinous doctrine of devils.
For we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:2) and we are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8).
Therefore, if we do not have faith, we do not have access to grace and are therefore not saved.
Whether we were saved before or not is not the issue.
Let's try of focus on what is important...exhorting the unbeliever to have faith in Jesus.
The real issue -- which you have side-stepped -- is whether that person is regenerated or not. The regenerated (new creatures in Christ) do not go back to a life of sin.
We need to "conspire" with genuine Bible doctrines more often.
Those who are truly saved have surrendered their wills to God and Christ. End of story. Saul the persecutor of Christians and Saul the preacher of the Gospel were two different people. See Acts 9. So the issue of free will is a red herring.
OSAS? Nah!
Written to Christians:
Romans 11:22 (NKJV)
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
Written to Christians:
Romans 11:22 (NKJV)
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
LOL, man do we have some problems! Wow, never heard that one about Saul/Paul.