How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[cv5]

well it is certainly Good for us to laugh together - i love it.

But (lol x10) you added this opinion to His Word = "BEFORE the Tribulation begins"

Brother and Friend - He did not say that, neither can you post a Scripture that does.

Pre-trib can only be propped up by 'adding to and taking away' from Scripture.

Now, since you and i are close - i can say this to you and you will not take offense = man up to God and reject men's opinions.

Tribulation in the world began in the Garden and will build unto His Second Coming.

70th week of Daniel buddy 70th week of Daniel. If you fail to FIRST understand that prophecy and all that it entails, your entire model will crash and burn. And YES it is linked comprehensively to the PRE-TRIB rapture.

IF....you actually know what you are talking about. And some do. Because I agree with them.

 

[rayzor]

Based on this reasoning, you cannot possibly "see" the 'Church' in Heaven in chapter 7 if there is no mention of it...

Think about it...

That depend on a couple things one being how u define the sound church? Where 2 or 3 gather in my mist i'll be their.Well people be able 2 find others that still believe? God says back in Deuteronomy then even in the tribs of the last days.If you turn your heart i will help you.

 

[DavidTree]

Please show me where in scripture you get this idea from...?

Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.

“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

The Coming of the Son of Man
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

What i meant by during is this: #1 - Tribulation began in the Garden in Genesis with the serpent and continues throughout world history until the Lord's Return.
#2 - The Lord says to us - In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
Again, satan's wrath continues until His Return.

 

[GaryA]

That's false.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Candlesticks are churches.

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Please read this post:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-book-of-revelation.61216/page-4#post-975358

You just may find it worth your while...

 

[DavidTree]

70th week of Daniel buddy 70th week of Daniel. If you fail to FIRST understand that prophecy and all that it entails, your entire model will crash and burn. And YES it is linked comprehensively to the PRE-TRIB rapture.

IF....you actually know what you are talking about. And some do. Because I agree with them.

I understand the 70th week but pre-tribbers do not.

Why are you continually avoiding TRUTH? The rapture cannot occur until the First Resurrection.

You fail to obey the commandments of our Lord - Proverbs 30 and Revelation 22

You also fail to obey the word of the Lord in 1 Thessalonians ch 4 and 2 Thessalonians ch 2 and 1 John 2:18 and Revelations.

Your understanding is corrupted by a lie. Now you worship this idol of men and you violate Truth the by adding your words to prop it up.

No one has the authority to add to or take away from Scripture.

The First Resurrection occurs at our Lord's Coming and before the rapture.

Now, do you want to be a man of God or continue in sin to please men?

Go find the First Resurrection in Revelation.

 

[rayzor]

You are one with the error thinking Satan's tribulation against Christians is somehow God's wrath. God's wrath starts when the great trib is over.

Satan is gods and one of gods tools..You know this. The Devil can't do those things if it's not god will.

 

[rayzor]

I understand the 70th week but pre-tribbers do not.

Why are you continually avoiding TRUTH? The rapture cannot occur until the First Resurrection.

You fail to obey the commandments of our Lord - Proverbs 30 and Revelation 22

You also fail to obey the word of the Lord in 1 Thessalonians ch 4 and 2 Thessalonians ch 2 and 1 John 2:18 and Revelations.

Your understanding is corrupted by a lie. Now you worship this idol of men and you violate Truth the by adding your words to prop it up.

No one has the authority to add to or take away from Scripture.

The First Resurrection occurs at our Lord's Coming and before the rapture.

Now, do you want to be a man of God or continue in sin to please men?

Go find the First Resurrection in Revelation.

you talking about the great tribs but the word itself is used many times in different situations.People seem to get it confused

 

[GaryA]

What i meant by during is this: #1 - Tribulation began in the Garden in Genesis with the serpent and continues throughout world history until the Lord's Return.
#2 - The Lord says to us - In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
Again, satan's wrath continues until His Return.

Did you not use the words 'Great Tribulation'?

 

[DavidTree]

Did you not use the words 'Great Tribulation'?

For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved.
But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short. Matt 24:21 -22

Scripture declares it and i agree with Scripture.

Tribulation began in the Garden and as the Serpent grew into a Dragon so did the Tribulation grow with it.

 

[DavidTree]

you talking about the great tribs but the word itself is used many times in different situations.People seem to get it confused

For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved.
But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short. Matt 24:21 -22

Scripture declares it and i agree with Scripture.

Tribulation began in the Garden and as the Serpent grew into a Dragon so did the Tribulation grow with it.

 

[cv5]

Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.

“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

The Coming of the Son of Man
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

What i meant by during is this: #1 - Tribulation began in the Garden in Genesis with the serpent and continues throughout world history until the Lord's Return.
#2 - The Lord says to us - In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
Again, satan's wrath continues until His Return.

Abomination of desolation? Spoken of by Daniel the prophet? 70th week of Daniel? Great tribulation?

Certainly is not connected in any way to your theory.....

 

[rayzor]

For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved.
But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short. Matt 24:21 -22

Scripture declares it and i agree with Scripture.

yea began in the garden
[Rev 12:9 KJV] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[Rev 20:2 KJV] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

 

[ewq1938]

Satan is gods and one of gods tools..You know this. The Devil can't do those things if it's not god will.

Everyone already understands that. Does not change the fact that the great Trib is Satan's wrath against Christians, not God's wrath at all. God's wrath comes after that period has ended.

 

[DavidTree]

Abomination of desolation? Spoken of by Daniel the prophet? 70th week of Daniel? Great tribulation?

Certainly is not connected in any way to your theory.....

i do not have a theory - i obey His commandment "do not add to God's word or take away".
i seek to be sanctified by the Lord, just as He prayed to the Father for us.

"I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth." John 17

God wants to sanctify you as well but He will not force it upon you - you must desire His desire for you.

 

[GaryA]

70th week of Daniel buddy 70th week of Daniel. If you fail to FIRST understand that prophecy and all that it entails...

Then - well - you end up with 'pre-trib'...

(I could not resist.)

 

[rayzor]

Everyone already understands that. Does not change the fact that the great Trib is Satan's wrath against Christians, not God's wrath at all. God's wrath comes after that period has ended.

k

 

[Ahwatukee]

yea began in the garden
[Rev 12:9 KJV] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[Rev 20:2 KJV] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Rev.12:9 is not referring to Satan in the garden, but is a future event, where at the sounding of the 7th trumpet Satan his angels will be cast out of heaven to the earth, which is also the 3rd woe.

"Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them!

But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you!

He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”

Every seal, trumpet and bowl judgment has a resulting plague. The 7th Trumpet is no different. It starts off with a pre-celebration, then chapter 12 reveals the woman as Israel, the dragon and the stars which represent Satan and his angels and the Male Child, which is not Jesus. The results of the sounding of the 7th trumpet is Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven to the earth.

As further proof that the war in heaven is future, In Rev.19 Jesus told John to write "what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later." The what must take place later begins at Revelation 4:1 where the Lord says, "come up here and I will show you what must take place after this, i.e. after the what is now, which we are currently living in. Therefore, since the war in heaven takes place within the "what must take place later" portion of what John was told to write, then it is still a future event, which will take place at the sounding of the 7th trumpet.

 

[rayzor]

Rev.12:9 is not referring to Satan in the garden, but is a future event, where at the sounding of the 7th trumpet Satan his angels will be cast out of heaven to the earth, which is also the 3rd woe.

"Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them!

But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you!

He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”

Every seal, trumpet and bowl judgment has a resulting plague. The 7th Trumpet is no different. It starts off with a pre-celebration, then chapter 12 reveals the woman as Israel, the dragon and the stars which represent Satan and his angels and the Male Child, which is not Jesus. The results of the sounding of the 7th trumpet is Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven to the earth.

As further proof that the war in heaven is future, In Rev.19 Jesus told John to write "what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later." The what must take place later begins at Revelation 4:1 where the Lord says, "come up here and I will show you what must take place after this, i.e. after the what is now, which we are currently living in. Therefore, since the war in heaven takes place within the "what must take place later" portion of what John was told to write, then it is still a future event, which will take place at the sounding of the 7th trumpet.

Ahwatukee: Hate to burst your Buble but Jesus saw the devil get thrown to the ground in Lk
Luk 10:18
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.





























Luk 10
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Everyone already understands that. Does not change the fact that the great Trib is Satan's wrath against Christians, not God's wrath at all. God's wrath comes after that period has ended.

Satan's persecution of the great tribulation saints takes place within the period of God's wrath, the Day of the Lord. Everything that takes place during that time period is God's wrath. The events of Satan, the beast and false prophet are all a part of God's wrath and testing of the tribulation saints.

In addition, those last seven years are a part of the decree of seventy sevens prophesied through Daniel, which makes that last seven years part of God's decree, not Satan's. God's wrath will fill that entire seven year period. Why don't you try listening for once, instead of continuing to contend for these false teachings.

"Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish d transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

7 sevens = Restore and rebuild Jerusalem (past)

62 sevens = At the end of which Christ was crucified (past)

One seven = Antichrist makes a covenant with Israel for one seven, with the Lord returning to the earth to end the age at the end of the seven. (Future)

The last seven years completes the seventieth seven, which belongs to God's decree, not Satan's. To be clear, Satan gets angry within the time of God's wrath, but that does not make it Satan's time of wrath. All you're doing is repeating a known false teaching.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Ahwatukee: Hate to burst your Buble but Jesus saw the devil get thrown to the ground in Lk
Luk 10:18
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.


Luk 10
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

You're not bursting my bubble. If I didn't already know about that, do you think that I would be commenting on these issues? I'm not speaking from the cuff of my sleeve on these matters, as many assume I am.

When Jesus said that He beheld Satan fall from heaven like lightening, He was referring to Satan's original fall, which has nothing to do with Satan and his angels finally being cast out of heaven to the earth for good revealed in Rev.12. Surprise! Satan and his angels still currently have access to heaven. In Job we see the son's of God (holy angels) appearing before God to present themselves to Him and Satan appeared with them to present himself. That happened well after the event with Satan in the garden. Now here in Rev.12, it states that Satan accuses the saints day and night before God.

In the middle of the seven years, the 7th trumpet will be sounded and that war will take place with Satan and his angels finally being cast out of heaven and never to be allowed back in. That is why it says, "woe to the earth and the sea" because he will be able to concentrate all of his evil upon the inhabitants of the earth.