How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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That's false.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Candlesticks are churches.
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Candlesticks are churches.
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
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2 Thess and Revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ both declare that the man of sin will come BEFORE the Lord Returns for the First Resurrection.
The First Resurrection occurs BEFORE the rapture - 1 Thess ch 4
The man of sin comes BEFORE the rapture 2 Thess ch 2
The First Resurrection does not occur until AFTER the Fifth Seal is completed Revelation ch 6 and ch 20
This is why you refuse to see and bow the knee to the word of the Lord = the First Resurrection.
Tear down the idol of pre-trib and burn her with fire - before it's too late.
The First Resurrection occurs BEFORE the rapture - 1 Thess ch 4
The man of sin comes BEFORE the rapture 2 Thess ch 2
The First Resurrection does not occur until AFTER the Fifth Seal is completed Revelation ch 6 and ch 20
This is why you refuse to see and bow the knee to the word of the Lord = the First Resurrection.
Tear down the idol of pre-trib and burn her with fire - before it's too late.
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Tribulation is not God's wrath = John 16:33 "In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!”
1 Thess 4 - For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
Revelation 3:10 - Because you have kept My command to persevere, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
These are the Saints who remain and are alive unto His Coming.
1 Thess 4 - For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
Revelation 3:10 - Because you have kept My command to persevere, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
These are the Saints who remain and are alive unto His Coming.
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Why not?
Is it not just a term to indicate that one believes the rapture timing to be before a 7-year tribulation period?
Where I grew up, everyone was taught pre-trib. And, best I remember, the term 'pretribber' did not bother them a bit - presumedly because they believed it to be the truth and did not mind being associated with it.
I personally don't think of the term itself as being derogatory.
Do you see it as derogatory?
If so - do you know why?
Do you feel the same way about the term 'premillenialist'?
If not - why is it any different?
No pressure. No criticism. No judgment.
Just wondering why you thought that way about it.
Is it not just a term to indicate that one believes the rapture timing to be before a 7-year tribulation period?
Where I grew up, everyone was taught pre-trib. And, best I remember, the term 'pretribber' did not bother them a bit - presumedly because they believed it to be the truth and did not mind being associated with it.
I personally don't think of the term itself as being derogatory.
Do you see it as derogatory?
If so - do you know why?
Do you feel the same way about the term 'premillenialist'?
If not - why is it any different?
No pressure. No criticism. No judgment.
Just wondering why you thought that way about it.
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Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Was the 'Wrath of God' being poured out on the earth at the time the book of Romans was being written?
Had the Great Tribulation already started by the time the book of Romans was being written?
context context context
And, even where indicated in Revelation...
context context context
You cannot successfully prove that:
'tribulation' = 'Wrath of God'
by arbitrarily assuming that:
'Wrath of God' = 'tribulation'
- you are assigning definition where it does not exist.
tribulation is tribulation
wrath is wrath
Neither in terms of definition - nor in terms of event - do they mix or match.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Was the 'Wrath of God' being poured out on the earth at the time the book of Romans was being written?
Had the Great Tribulation already started by the time the book of Romans was being written?
context context context
And, even where indicated in Revelation...
context context context
You cannot successfully prove that:
'tribulation' = 'Wrath of God'
by arbitrarily assuming that:
'Wrath of God' = 'tribulation'
- you are assigning definition where it does not exist.
tribulation is tribulation
wrath is wrath
Neither in terms of definition - nor in terms of event - do they mix or match.
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You are dreaming. I said no such thing. Retract that accusation immediately.
I said Christians enduring tribulation in this Church age DOES NOT equate as Gods wrath.
Gods wrath is stated 10 TIMES.....in the book of Revelation.....WHILE THE WRATH IS HAPPENING!
And to be clear....the Church has ALREADY been raptured to the heavens and will never ever suffer one stroke of God's wrath OR the wrath of the Lamb.
I said Christians enduring tribulation in this Church age DOES NOT equate as Gods wrath.
Gods wrath is stated 10 TIMES.....in the book of Revelation.....WHILE THE WRATH IS HAPPENING!
And to be clear....the Church has ALREADY been raptured to the heavens and will never ever suffer one stroke of God's wrath OR the wrath of the Lamb.
No wrath for the Bride, the Church, His Body, those justified by His blood. Wrath is reserved for the hard and impenitent, the children of wrath, the sons of disobedience. The Church does not suffer the tribulation judgment WRATH upon the earth (see Rev excerpts below). Or judgement of eternal wrath at the GWT.
You see, one needs to compare Scripture with Scripture, out of which sound doctrine is developed.
Rom 2:5
But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Rom 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
Eph 2:3
among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Eph 5:6
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Col 3:6
Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience,
1Th 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
1Th 5:9
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Heb 4:3
For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,' ”[fn]
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
2 Pet 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
============================================================================================================
============================================================================================================
Here is the aforementioned wrath of the Lamb and God. This particular wrath is upon the EARTH DWELLERS.
10 X wrath of God and 1X wrath of the Lamb. 1X the wrath of the devil.
Rev 6:16
and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
Rev 6:17
“For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
Rev 11:18
The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”
Rev 12:12
“Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Rev 14:10
“he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:19
So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 15:1
Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete.
Rev 15:7
Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever.
Rev 16:1
Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the bowls[fn] of the wrath of God on the earth.”
Rev 16:19
Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
Rev 18:3
“For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”
Rev 19:15
Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[fn] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
You see, one needs to compare Scripture with Scripture, out of which sound doctrine is developed.
Rom 2:5
But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Rom 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
Eph 2:3
among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Eph 5:6
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Col 3:6
Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience,
1Th 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
1Th 5:9
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Heb 4:3
For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,' ”[fn]
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
2 Pet 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
============================================================================================================
============================================================================================================
Here is the aforementioned wrath of the Lamb and God. This particular wrath is upon the EARTH DWELLERS.
10 X wrath of God and 1X wrath of the Lamb. 1X the wrath of the devil.
Rev 6:16
and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
“For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”
“Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
“he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete.
Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever.
Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the bowls[fn] of the wrath of God on the earth.”
Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
“For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”
Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[fn] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
It could just as easily be seven seconds or seven minutes before rather than seven years before.
And, based on all of scripture, I suggest that 7 seconds/minutes is a whole lot closer to the truth.
One thing you may notice in scripture, however - Jesus Himself [personally] "dishes out" [all of] the 'Wrath of God' upon the wicked.
(What does the [very] last sentence in the quote above say?)
So - there is no such thing (biblically speaking) as the 'Wrath of God' being experienced by anyone before Jesus actually appears at His Second Coming.
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