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1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31
- Thread starter Ahwatukee
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remember i said four contestants, meaning we allow Scripture to decide....
i mentioned John because of this: John 21:23
Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple(John) should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
i mentioned John because of this: John 21:23
Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple(John) should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
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I'm wondering if you're saying that the "we which are ALIVE and remain" must BECOME "the DEAD in Christ" (meaning, we are required to physically DIE prior to the time we are raptured) in order for this verse to be true according to your viewpoint?
Or, are there some of us who will experience "our Rapture" without ever having to experience DYING first? as I see it. [see 2Cor5:3-4]
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[how do you see what Jesus said about the (ones who will experience death) "...though he may DIE, yet shall he live" AND (of the still-alive ones) "he that LIVETH and believeth in Me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26]
Or, are there some of us who will experience "our Rapture" without ever having to experience DYING first? as I see it. [see 2Cor5:3-4]
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[how do you see what Jesus said about the (ones who will experience death) "...though he may DIE, yet shall he live" AND (of the still-alive ones) "he that LIVETH and believeth in Me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26]
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[ @Pilgrimshope 's Post #211] "I'm not following your question I'm sorry ."--PH
The question was meant to be directed to DavidTree's comment (I only placed your comment within his post, to which he was replying, so he could recall what it was his comment pertained to)... my apologies for any confusion = )
[P.S. I had added to my post, to clarify further... jfyi]
The question was meant to be directed to DavidTree's comment (I only placed your comment within his post, to which he was replying, so he could recall what it was his comment pertained to)... my apologies for any confusion = )
[P.S. I had added to my post, to clarify further... jfyi]
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[ @DavidTree 's Post #212 ] I'm asking if you are saying Scripture tells us "we which are ALIVE and remain" must DIE first, before we're raptured? Does it?
[re: my Post #209]
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[to the readers: 2Cor5:3-4 (reflective of 1Cor15:51-54 about "this MORTAL" component) says NO to that question ^ (whereas "this CORRUPTIBLE" refers to "the DEAD in Christ" who of course DO DIE prior to "our Rapture" point in time)]
[re: my Post #209]
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[to the readers: 2Cor5:3-4 (reflective of 1Cor15:51-54 about "this MORTAL" component) says NO to that question ^ (whereas "this CORRUPTIBLE" refers to "the DEAD in Christ" who of course DO DIE prior to "our Rapture" point in time)]
The Scripture does say that Moses died
Then Moses went up from the plains of Moab to Mount Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, which faces Jericho. And the LORD showed him the whole land—from Gilead as far as Dan, all of Naphtali, the land of Ephraim and Manasseh, all the land of Judah as far as the Western Sea, the Negev, and the region from the Valley of Jericho (the City of Palms) all the way to Zoar.
And the LORD said to him, “This is the land that I swore to give Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob when I said, ‘I will give it to your descendants.’ I have let you see it with your own eyes, but you will not cross into it.”
So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, as the LORD had said. And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab facing Beth-peor, and no one to this day knows the location of his grave.
Deut 34
Then Moses went up from the plains of Moab to Mount Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, which faces Jericho. And the LORD showed him the whole land—from Gilead as far as Dan, all of Naphtali, the land of Ephraim and Manasseh, all the land of Judah as far as the Western Sea, the Negev, and the region from the Valley of Jericho (the City of Palms) all the way to Zoar.
And the LORD said to him, “This is the land that I swore to give Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob when I said, ‘I will give it to your descendants.’ I have let you see it with your own eyes, but you will not cross into it.”
So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, as the LORD had said. And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab facing Beth-peor, and no one to this day knows the location of his grave.
Deut 34
Perhaps it will be an entirely new set of 2 people (as I'm leaning toward thinking), but will be LIKE what was said regarding "John the Baptist" in Luke 1:17, "And he will go forth before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous--to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
IOW, he wasn't Elijah "literally"... perhaps it could be the same for the two witnesses (future)... two people born in proximity to that general "future" time-frame.
IOW, he wasn't Elijah "literally"... perhaps it could be the same for the two witnesses (future)... two people born in proximity to that general "future" time-frame.
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