Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?
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Would you say they're...zealous?
Titus 2:14 [brackets mine]
who gave Himself for us [crucifixion], that He might redeem us [Justification] from all lawlessness and might purify [sanctification] to Himself a people specially chosen, zealous of good works [effort; fruit].
^^^Spoken by Paul
Hebrews 10:26-27 [brackets mine]
26 For if we [us believers] sin wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
^^^These are believers who know the truth but willfully sin (different from mistakes of weaknesses). No sacrifice remains for their sins. They are no longer saved. - Writer of Hebrews, presumed to be Paul.
2 Thessalonians 2:3,9-12
3 Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed.
9 The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10 and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them.
11 For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie, in order that judgment may come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in unrighteousness.
^^^A falling away of believers is prophesied by Paul. Those who fall away from the faith will not be saved.
Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
^^^Messiah said this.
John 14:15
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
^^^Messiah.
Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
^^^From God through Messiah to servants.
Matthew 7:18-20
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruit you will recognize them.…
Matthew 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
John 3:19-21
19 And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.”
^^^^All Messiah.
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Do you agree with these passages?
Thanks for clarifying
What I say is not from me it is from 1 for 6:9-11 and Galatians 5
Galatians 5
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
What I say is not from me it is from 1 for 6:9-11 and Galatians 5
Galatians 5
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
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We freely comes as we are...but we're not supposed to stay as we are.
All are freely invited to the wedding (no restriction)...but once there, one had better have a wedding garment on else they'll be escorted out (Matthew 22:1-10).
All are freely given talent of gold...but those who bury their gift and do nothing with it fearing they'd lose it will have it taken from them then the Master returns (Matthew 25:18)
All are freely invited to the wedding (no restriction)...but once there, one had better have a wedding garment on else they'll be escorted out (Matthew 22:1-10).
All are freely given talent of gold...but those who bury their gift and do nothing with it fearing they'd lose it will have it taken from them then the Master returns (Matthew 25:18)
E
The way I see it.
If I think I must maintain my salvation because it can be lost. I am a legalist
Sadly Legalism can creep into the church also. Even among believers. Thinking God must not love me r how can I be saved if I commit these sins etc etc. I was deep in this, Its why I left Gd as a prodigal sin fr 5 years.. I do nt think these peopel are lost. Just being oppressed by Satan.
If I think I must maintain my salvation because it can be lost. I am a legalist
Sadly Legalism can creep into the church also. Even among believers. Thinking God must not love me r how can I be saved if I commit these sins etc etc. I was deep in this, Its why I left Gd as a prodigal sin fr 5 years.. I do nt think these peopel are lost. Just being oppressed by Satan.
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In your interpretation what is this verse mean
Galatians 5
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
To you is that verse mean murder inherit the kingdom of God?
Galatians 5
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
To you is that verse mean murder inherit the kingdom of God?
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S
a good number of months ago now, I had a go round with him
the problem seems to be he does not understand English all that well and misinterprets...well part of the problem anyway
by the time no conclusion was reached (not a surprising outcome which is observable as we post), I was on my way to hell, according to him, and happily leading others there too
he twisted what I said so badly (with gusto) there was no hope in explaining over and over and over. he is still doing it with y'all
I just moved on.....probably will again
the problem seems to be he does not understand English all that well and misinterprets...well part of the problem anyway
by the time no conclusion was reached (not a surprising outcome which is observable as we post), I was on my way to hell, according to him, and happily leading others there too
he twisted what I said so badly (with gusto) there was no hope in explaining over and over and over. he is still doing it with y'all
I just moved on.....probably will again
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This is a matter of two theological systems of thought: Calvinism vs Arminianism. Holding to a more Arminian position does not make one a legalist in my view. Generally speaking, Arminians just don't believe in the same doctrines that Calvinists do.
Calvinism includes the belief that God’s grace is irresistible, while Arminianism says that an individual can resist the grace of God. Irresistible grace argues that when God calls a person to salvation, that person will inevitably come to salvation. Resistible grace states that God calls all to salvation, but that many people resist and reject this call.
Calvinism holds to perseverance of the saints while Arminianism holds to conditional salvation. Perseverance of the saints refers to the concept that a person who is elected by God will persevere in faith and will not permanently deny Christ or turn away from Him. Conditional salvation is the view that a believer in Christ can, of his/her own free will, turn away from Christ and thereby lose salvation. Note - many Arminians deny "conditional salvation" and instead hold to "eternal security."
There are those who believe in "once saved always saved" or the false Calvinist doctrine of "perseverance of the saints." If one knows that salvation can be lost they simply don't hold to the Calvinist doctrines of "total depravity" of "irresistible grace." In my view it does not make them legalistic. They just think that a person walking in the Spirit of God can out of his/her own free will choose willful sin and ultimately be overcome by this sin and lose salvation.
We are depraved, not totally depraved as the Calvinists teach. Calvinists teach that there is nothing a Christian can do to eternally separate themselves from God.
Here is a good resource for examining the arguments that oppose Calvinism:
https://www.simplybible.com/f172-tulip-p-perseverance-of-the-saints.htm
I will highlight two examples below of Calvinist and Arminian arguments that illustrate how these theological systems disagree over the Calvinist doctrine of "once saved always saved" or "perseverance of the saints."
1. Those who hold to the Calvinist doctrine of once saved always saved point out that the saved are "sealed by the Holy Spirit" (Ephesians 1:13). They that nobody could break the seal of Almighty God.
The seal is "the guarantee of our inheritance" (Ephesians 1:14). Three things are assured...
Firstly, the God of the elect knows them as his own (2Timothy 2:19).
Secondly, no enemy of the elect can snatch them from Christ's hand (John 10:28).
Thirdly, the elect themselves can remain faithful to God (Revelation 2:10).
This third guarantee is the scriptural version of the perseverance of the saints. The Arminians say it is one thing to guarantee people that they can be faithful till the end, and nobody can force them to lose their salvation. It is quite another thing to say they cannot fall regardless of what they do.
2. Another argument for once saved always saved out that salvation is the free gift of God (Ephesians 2:8). It is reasoned that God would not be so fickle as to give a gift, and then later demand that it be returned to him.
The Arminians would say that God never changes his mind and retracts his promise, nor does God ever demand his gift back. By grace, he has given us the promise and hope of eternal life on the condition that we continue in the faith (Colossians 1:23).
Eternal life is a free gift in the sense that it is unmerited, not in the sense that it is unconditional. If I gave you a holiday as a free gift, it would be conditional upon you actually making the journey to the retreat. If you decided not to go, or got half way and decided to quit, that would not mean I had changed my mind or demanded my gift back. It would be all your doing.
Ultimately, it's a matter of what doctrines you believe in. This debate has been going on for a long time and each follower of the Lord should look at the doctrines to come to their own conclusions.
Here is a good resource for refuting the false doctrines of Calvin:
https://www.simplybible.com/f172-tulip-p-perseverance-of-the-saints.htm
Another good site for refuting the false doctrine of total depravity can be found here:
http://lhim.org/blog/2014/02/06/three-arguments-against-total-depravity/
Paul says SOME of the Corinthian congregation were the wrongdoers he describes in verses 9 and 10. obviously Paul is not describing believers
honest to pete
honest to pete
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
did this verse say only non believer who did this not inherit?
to me who ever did that not inherit kg
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E
a good number of months ago now, I had a go round with him
the problem seems to be he does not understand English all that well and misinterprets...well part of the problem anyway
by the time no conclusion was reached (not a surprising outcome which is observable as we post), I was on my way to hell, according to him, and happily leading others there too
he twisted what I said so badly (with gusto) there was no hope in explaining over and over and over. he is still doing it with y'all
I just moved on.....probably will again
the problem seems to be he does not understand English all that well and misinterprets...well part of the problem anyway
by the time no conclusion was reached (not a surprising outcome which is observable as we post), I was on my way to hell, according to him, and happily leading others there too
he twisted what I said so badly (with gusto) there was no hope in explaining over and over and over. he is still doing it with y'all
I just moved on.....probably will again
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1
- Show all