Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

[JerryInBoston]

All religions are man-made. The CC just happens to be the largest cult in existence. And, the Mary they worship has no relation to the mother of Jesus. They worship Osiris. When you get right down to bitter truth, they worship Lucifer. The entire vatican is a cauldron of wickedness. I believe the pope will be the false prophet in the end.. the right hand man to the anti-christ. No other person fits the role.
I am so thankful the Lord saved me out of that religion. It is truly evil.

The Greek word for religion (thrēskeia) as used in Acts, Colossians, and James refers to worship.

According to Etymology Online, the Word religion is an early 13th century word of Latin or French origin.

religion (n.)
c. 1200, religioun, "state of life bound by monastic vows," also "action or conduct indicating a belief in a divine power and reverence for and desire to please it," from Anglo-French religiun (11c.), Old French religion, relegion "piety, devotion; religious community," and directly from Latin religionem (nominative religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods; conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation; fear of the gods; divine service, religious observance; a religion, a faith, a mode of worship, cult; sanctity, holiness," in Late Latin "monastic life" (5c.).

 

[Jackson123]

The born again, are already in the Kingdom of God.
We are not waiting for it.....We are IN IT.

"translated from Darkness..............>TO LIGHT". Colossians 1 13,14

See that?
Thats all the born again, become a part of the KOG, as........>"children of the Light", and Jesus is "the Light of the World", and God exists, 'IN LIGHT".

What is your definition of Kingdom of God

You still live on earth who is prince of the air

"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"
Ephesians 2:2, KJV

If we already in the King of God than God will be the King that rule us. Yes God the King but we not obey all His will yet. Till we die same time we still serve the will of the prince it the sir

 

[Jackson123]

Its 2nd Timothy

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

What is the correlation between those verse and my question?

 

[BillG]

There's two sides to that ugly little coin.

Those who are relying on themselves to be saved, and just doing good works thinking that will save them... are lost Then on the other side the ones who say they are saved and don't trust in the power of Jesus Christ to set them free and save them from the power of sin and death...are lost, as well.

On one side you got the self righteous on the other side you got the hypocrite. Neither one is truly saved. Both have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.

Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. That is all about faith in Jesus and over coming through Him.

I think we need to be careful here.

If one feels they have to rely on themselves to be saved by doing good works why is that?

There must be a reason.
The reason being that they have been taught that or as a result of the upbringing.
Like do well work well and I will accept you.

Been there seen it experienced it and have the t-shirt.
Still struggle with it.

Then on the other side as you say those who say they are saved and don't trust in the power of Jesus to see them free from the power of sin and death are lost as well.

Both of your points for me can be circular.

Do works to be saved but struggle to trust Jesus to set them free from sin.

So don't do then you are damned.

You also say "lost as well"
As you did not add a ? to that comment I assume you are saying they are not saved?

Anyway I think the issue is correct biblical teaching that some have been taught.

Truth for me is that works do not save, people need to taught this.
Then people need to be taught that it's the grace of God in us that sets us free from sin.

Sanctification is a process

 

[Kidron]

There are two sides to the coin. Those who believe they keep themselves saved through their own power... are lost. Just as those who don't believe and trust in Jesus to help them to overcome and/so they just continue to walk in darkness...they are lost, as well.

Both of those types have a form or godliness but deny the power thereof.

Both are lost.

I would not always conclude that someone who is "fallen from Grace" is lost.
As once you are born again, you are always born again, Spiritually.
But because faith exists as how we BELIEVE, then this is a mind situation and its in the mind where the devil deceives.

So, he can cause a believer to fall from Grace, in their FAITH, which is to lose the Truth of right understanding, but he can't by causing that cause them to lose their salvation, as that is God caused and God kept.
The born again, can never stop being..... "One with God, in Christ", as that is our Spiritual Eternal reality, but, a born again person can become deceived, mentally, within a subverted faith, and that is to "fall from Grace". and exit "in the Flesh".. (Carnal mind).

We find these people when we ask them........>"do you believe you can lose your salvation".
If they say "yes", then they are faith subverted.
See, its impossible to have Faith in Christ, and yet, a person does not believe that Christ keeps them saved.

What is hard to discern on a forum, because you can't see the person, you can't look into their eyes......is..........were they really saved , born again at some point, or were they only taught that Christianity is ....>>"i do this, i go to heaven", and "if i dont do this, i dont go to heaven".
= Legalsim, or what Jude describes as....>"the Error of Cain".

I try to listen for.........>"do they ever talk about the blood of Jesus, and the Cross of Christ, or the Grace of God".
When i talk about this to them, is there some kind of understanding at all?, or is it.........They are staring at me like a Tree full of Owls, .........just, .....totally foreign to the idea of the Blood of Jesus and the Cross of Christ.
As if that is not a part of their understanding at ALL, then they probably never had it to begin with, and in that case, im probably dealing with not just a heretic, but a "religious but lost" person, who knows some things, but has not been KNOWN by God, as born again yet.

 

[Kidron]

What is the correlation between those verse and my question?

Your idea is........."to inherit the KOG< you can't be a ...............and you post your list of sin".

The issue you are not seeing, is that you are only talking about unbelievers, as the BORN AGAIN, are already IN the Kingdom of God.

 

[Jackson123]

For goodness sake stop using murder to try and prove your futile point.

What about gossip, slander.

What about what James addressed

James 2:15-17
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Yes as followers of Jesus we are called to represent him.
It's a no brainer.
We are made holy set apart to be like him.

But please you and others like you always pull out the big guns yet neglect the small bullets that are just as sinful in the eyes of God.

Even Jesus addressed this when he separates the sheep and the goats.

When I was hungry you did not feed me. That's a sin.
You did not visit me when in prison. That's a sin.
The list goes on and on.

Not helping poor also not inherit the kingdom Matt 25 but murder too, I am not make my own verse it is in the bible

 

[BillG]

Not helping poor also not inherit the kingdom Matt 25 but murder too, I am not make my own verse it is in the bible

You had to add murder again?
Why?

If you not help poor people twice but someone murders twice then you are not saved either?

 

[Jackson123]

Your idea is........."to inherit the KOG< you can't be a ...............and you post your list of sin".

The issue you are not seeing, is that you are only talking about unbelievers, as the BORN AGAIN, are already IN the Kingdom of God.

That is why I ask you about your definition of Kingdom of zgod
Seem to me there is other god in the air that rule us if we allow

Ep 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Seem to me when we lie we are serve prince of the air or devil so Christian still back and forth some time serve God some time serve devil

 

[Kidron]

Been there seen it experienced it and have the t-shirt.
Still struggle with it.

That struggle you are describing..... is the world, the flesh, and the devil, trying to put you up on the Cross.
All real believers, who understand that we were ungodly sinners who were MADE RIGHTEOUS, by "the gift of righteousness", have that pull and that fleshy thing that is the "world", the devil, and our own self righteousness, that is always trying to become a part of redemption, as SELF. (flesh)

2nd Corinthians 13:5. Paul tells us to "examine ourselves" and test ourselves to make sure we are IN THE FAITH.

JUDE tells us .....Jude 1:3 to "contend for the REAL FAITH".

As there are many false faiths, ....they sound "christian"< they feel GOOD, but they are false.
Most denominations are built on a version of the Truth.
We are to keep them out of ourselves, and we are to hammer them into oblivion when we find these false faiths being taught on forums.
And if you are a minister, you are to keep these people out of your Church who would bring in Legalism, and similar..... as once that gets started, your assembly is going to crash and burn.
You can't pray it out. You have to get it out......by not letting it start.

Did you ever wonder why, the God of Love, the God of Grace, The God of Mercy, burned Gays, in Sodom and Gomorrah?
Its because Homosexuality is a learned behavior.....ITs a seducing spirit. It infects , and you become it.
Notice this bumper sticker.....>"Gays do not reproduce......they RECRUIT.
Thats a FACT.
So, you can't play with it, and that is Why God ended it........as If he didnt, it takes over the world again.
Like its doing now.
Like it did in Noah's Day, just before God drowned it out.

So, Legalism, and false faith, infect you mentally.......that is DECEPTION. That's what it does. That's what its designed to do.
So, you can't allow it, you have to end it.
That is an endless pursuit on a forum, as its the biggest infection of all.

 

[Jackson123]

You had to add murder again?
Why?

If you not help poor people twice but someone murders twice then you are not saved either?

I am not anything it is in 1 for 6;9-11

 

[BillG]

I am not anything it is in 1 for 6;9-11

Just answer my questions

 

[Kidron]

Seem to me when we lie we are serve prince of the air or devil so Christian still back and forth some time serve God some time serve devil

James teaches that you can have "dead faith".
A heretic, will teach this as.......Dead faith, = Dead Salvation.
However, James does not say that those with dead faith are "lost".
He says they have dead faith.
When a person has dead faith, they are deceived, and they are no longer in their right spiritual mind, having left it, when they became deceived.

Salvation can't be lost, but faith can become broken., as James teaches.

 

[BillG]

That struggle you are describing..... is the world, the flesh, and the devil, trying to put you up on the Cross.
All real believers, who understand that we were ungodly sinners who were MADE RIGHTEOUS, by "the gift of righteousness", have that pull and that fleshy thing that is the "world", the devil, and our own self righteousness, that is always trying to become a part of redemption, as SELF. (flesh)

2nd Corinthians 13:5. Paul tells us to "examine ourselves" and test ourselves to make sure we are IN THE FAITH.

JUDE tells us .....Jude 1:3 to "contend for the REAL FAITH".

As there are many false faiths, ....they sound "christian"< they feel GOOD, but they are false.
Most denominations are built on a version of the Truth.
We are to keep them out of ourselves, and we are to hammer them into oblivion when we find these false faiths being taught on forums.
And if you are a minister, you are to keep these people out of your Church who would bring in Legalism, and similar..... as once that gets started, your assembly is going to crash and burn.
You can't pray it out. You have to get it out......by not letting it start.

Did you ever wonder why, the God of Love, the God of Grace, The God of Mercy, burned Gays, in Sodom and Gomorrah?
Its because Homosexuality is a learned behavior.....ITs a seducing spirit. It infects , and you become it.
Notice this bumper sticker.....>"Gays do not reproduce......they RECRUIT.
Thats a FACT.
So, you can't play with it, and that is Why God ended it........as If he didnt, it takes over the world again.
Like its doing now.
Like it did in Noah's Day, just before God drowned it out.

So, Legalism, and false faith, infect you mentally.......that is DECEPTION. That's what it does. That's what its designed to do.
So, you can't allow it, you have to end it.
That is an endless pursuit on a forum, as its the biggest infection of all.

What's your point?

Simple answer please.

 

[Jackson123]

I think we need to be careful here.

If one feels they have to rely on themselves to be saved by doing good works why is that?

There must be a reason.
The reason being that they have been taught that or as a result of the upbringing.
Like do well work well and I will accept you.

Been there seen it experienced it and have the t-shirt.
Still struggle with it.

Then on the other side as you say those who say they are saved and don't trust in the power of Jesus to see them free from the power of sin and death are lost as well.

Both of your points for me can be circular.

Do works to be saved but struggle to trust Jesus to set them free from sin.

So don't do then you are damned.

You also say "lost as well"
As you did not add a ? to that comment I assume you are saying they are not saved?

Anyway I think the issue is correct biblical teaching that some have been taught.

Truth for me is that works do not save, people need to taught this.
Then people need to be taught that it's the grace of God in us that sets us free from sin.

Sanctification is a process

Depend on what is your definition of good work. Trust Jesus is a good work.

And people who abide on Him will bear fruit and the fruit is love loving work

Love mean helping the needy, kindness arc in 1 for 13 Paul defined what love look like
Loving work is not save you but if you save you will bear fruit of loving work
In other work if your fruit is bad like murder, mean you are not born again exactly like Paul say in 1 for 6:9-11

 

[Jackson123]

James teaches that you can have "dead faith".
A heretic, will teach this as.......Dead faith, = Dead Salvation.
However, James does not say that those with dead faith are "lost".
He says they have dead faith.
When a person has dead faith, they are deceived, and they are no longer in their right spiritual mind, having left it, when they became deceived.

Salvation can't be lost, but faith can become broken., as James teaches.

What verse say dead faith save you?

 

[BillG]

Depend on what is your definition of good work. Trust Jesus is a good work.

And people who abide on Him will bear fruit and the fruit is love loving work

Love mean helping the needy, kindness arc in 1 for 13 Paul defined what love look like
Loving work is not save you but if you save you will bear fruit of loving work
In other work if your fruit is bad like murder, mean you are not born again exactly like Paul say in 1 for 6:9-11

Answer my questions

You had to add murder again?
Why?

If you not help poor people twice but someone murders twice then you are not saved either?

 

[Jackson123]

Answer my questions

What question I don't answer you
I am not make my own verse like you do murder not inherit is on the Bible 1 cor 6:9-11

 

[BillG]

What question I don't answer you
I am not make my own verse like you do murder not inherit is on the Bible 1 cor 6:9-11

Rubbish.

Are you afraid to answer my questions?

 

[Jackson123]

Rubbish.

Are you afraid to answer my questions?

Don't you read 1 cor 6:9-11 read it and tell me what it say are you call Paul rubbish He not me who tsar murder not inherit the kingdom of God

Why you say rubbish is the that the fruit of Holy Spirit
You quote what Jesus teach to love and help the poor yet you call me rubbish I am poor in knowledge and you yell at me, is this love look like?