Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

Chester · Aug 5, 2021

Salvation is not equal to/ equivalent of being born again.

Salvation means to be saved from . . . what? the power and control of sin in life . . . and being saved to eternal life.

Discipleship is not separate from or follows salvation. Discipleship is part of what salvation is: for in discipleship is when the power and control of sin in daily life is defeated.

If the power and control of sin in daily life has not happened, then salvation is questionable at best.

(Obviously, when dealing with definitions of words, it depends what each person means by each term. And yet it is important to define terms Biblically, or you wind up with false doctrine.)

Jackson123 · Aug 5, 2021

Chester said:

Yep, manipulating biblical doctrine is easy by manipulating word definition
Devil manipulate Adam and Eve by manipulating definition

God say if you eat that fruit you will die
Devil redefined the word die into you will became like God know more

Now Devil use same strategy with different version

Kidron · Aug 5, 2021

Yahshua said:

First, it wasn't the "law" that was given in "Stone".
It was the 10 commandments.

Also, in Real Christianity, you have the Apostle Paul who wrote most of the New Testament.
So, he is the one who, along with Jude, who defined how we are to spot a legalist.

Legalist, are those who want to continually talk about the Old Testament, the Law, and commandments.
Now, to be a legalist, you can be an unbeliever or you can be a believer.
If a believer, then you will have an obsession with being on Forums, and talking about law, commandments, and works. (self effort).
You'll try to prove that a person can lose their salvation.
All legalist do this.......
Paul says that if this is you, then you are "fallen from Grace'....."Bewitched".........and "in the flesh".

See, its the FLESH that wants to worry about commandment keeping and law.
Its the flesh that wants to endlessly talk about the old covenant, that has been replaced by the New Covenant.

Legalism is to try to do by law and commandments what can't be done.
And that is to have a relationship with God, by law and commandments.

We are in the "time of the gentiles" and so, the way God has provided us to be accepted by him, and for eternity, is only based on the Blood of Jesus, the Death of Jesus, and the Gift of Righteousness, the Gift of Salvation..................to be born again.

Kidron · Aug 5, 2021

Chester said:

You can't be "saved" , unless you are born again.
So, to be born again, is to possess this...>"The GIFT of Salvation".
If you have that, then its because you are born again, and if you are born again, you have Salvation.

Salvation is the righteousness of God becoming the born again Spirit.

Kidron · Aug 5, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

And legalism has replaced faith in Christ when a person believes and teaches that "if you dont walk the walk, you lose your salvation".
See that?
So, in that person's broken faith, they are trying to keep themselves saved, by "walking the walk", because they have lost their faith in Christ to KEEP THEM SAVED.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 5, 2021

Kidron said:

I think it is pretty obvious these people have faith in self to live up to Gods standard. Not in Christ to save them.

BillG · Aug 5, 2021

Jackson123 said:

For goodness sake stop using murder to try and prove your futile point.

What about gossip, slander.

What about what James addressed

James 2:15-17
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Yes as followers of Jesus we are called to represent him.
It's a no brainer.
We are made holy set apart to be like him.

But please you and others like you always pull out the big guns yet neglect the small bullets that are just as sinful in the eyes of God.

Even Jesus addressed this when he separates the sheep and the goats.

When I was hungry you did not feed me. That's a sin.
You did not visit me when in prison. That's a sin.
The list goes on and on.

Jackson123 · Aug 5, 2021

Kidron said:

First, it wasn't the "law" that was given in "Stone".
It was the 10 commandments.

Also, in Real Christianity, you have the Apostle Paul who wrote most of the New Testament.
So, he is the one who, along with Jude, who defined how we are to spot a legalist.

Legalist, are those who want to continually talk about the Old Testament, the Law, and commandments.
Now, to be a legalist, you can be an unbeliever or you can be a believer.
If a believer, then you will have an obsession with being on Forums, and talking about law, commandments, and works. (self effort).
You'll try to prove that a person can lose their salvation.
All legalist do this.......
Paul says that if this is you, then you are "fallen from Grace'....."Bewitched".........and "in the flesh".

See, its the FLESH that wants to worry about commandment keeping and law.
Its the flesh that wants to endlessly talk about the old covenant, that has been replaced by the New Covenant.

Legalism is to try to do by law and commandments what can't be done.
And that is to have a relationship with God, by law and commandments.

We are in the "time of the gentiles" and so, the way God has provided us to be accepted by him, and for eternity, is only based on the Blood of Jesus, the Death of Jesus, and the Gift of Righteousness, the Gift of Salvation..................to be born again.

What is the definition of legaism

You say Paul spot legalism an Paul wrote to Corinthians that murder not inherit kg
Is Paul legalistic by wrote that verse?

BillG · Aug 5, 2021

If you know of a person in your church who cannot put food on the table and you have spare cash and don't offer to buy food for them is that as any other sin for those who will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Or they cannot buy a school uniform?

What about if you someone tells you something about someone else?
Do you rebuke them for gossip?
Or do you tell someone else?
If not and if so it's a sin?

What if you have anger in your heart towards somone?
Is that not murder?

What if you call someone a fool

Matthew 5:22-23
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,

That is a sin.

Kidron · Aug 5, 2021

eternally-gratefull said:

Exactly.

All of us who are born again.........we came to the Cross as "sinners, ungodly"......and we know it.
We didnt come trying to pretend we were clean and worth saving.....We came to God on our knees saying...."please save me a sinner, o God."..........and then it was........"thank you Jesus, thank you Jesus, thank you Jesus"....because GOD DID save us.
We went from darkness to Light.
We stopped being hell bound and became a part of GOD's Heaven, as a SON of God and a Daughter of Christ.
This happened to us in an instant., and remains for as long as God lives.

But, there are those, who had this, but later they were LED TO BELIEVE that they had to keep themselves saved.
Paul says..."WHO HAS BEWITCHED YOU, that you no longer obey the TRUTH".

And the "bewitching" is shown because these people BELIEVE what they are telling you.
They BELIEVE that Christ's Blood cannot keep you saved.

Ive had people yelling at me.........>"NO THE BLOOD OF JESUS DOES NOT KEEP YOU SAVED" !!!!

YELLING.
Yelling at me, in their deception because it has become their FAITH.

Jesus explains this as the light in you having become DARKNESS.

Everyone who is "fallen from Grace" has become FAITH corrupted, and Jesus warns against this.
And Paul tells us to make sure we are in the Faith, as you can fall from it and become this...

New International Version
See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness.

New Living Translation
Make sure that the light you think you have is not actually darkness.

English Standard Version
Therefore be careful lest the light in you be darkness.

Berean Study Bible
Be careful, then, that the light within you is not darkness.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore take heed, lest the light that is in you be darkness.

King James Bible
Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.

1ofthem · Aug 5, 2021

There's two sides to that ugly little coin.

Those who are relying on themselves to be saved, and just doing good works thinking that will save them... are lost Then on the other side the ones who say they are saved and don't trust in the power of Jesus Christ to set them free and save them from the power of sin and death...are lost, as well.

On one side you got the self righteous on the other side you got the hypocrite. Neither one is truly saved. Both have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.

Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. That is all about faith in Jesus and overcoming through Him.

1 John 1
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

2 Timothy 3
3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Kidron · Aug 5, 2021

Jackson123 said:

Here is how to know if you have become a Legalist.

its very simple to know.

Do you believe you can lose your salvation.
If you believe this, then you are becoming a legalist or you have become a legalist.

Legalism, the best way to understand it, is ........."i no longer trust that Christ keeps me saved".

See, a legalist can't honestly say ...>I believe that Christ keeps me saved".

They do not believe this.....They believe in commandments, and self effort, and the Torah, and the Law, and enduring to the end, and all the SELF EFFORT that has REPLACED faith in Christ to Keep them saved.

Jackson123 · Aug 5, 2021

Kidron said:

And this is what Paul tell us

1 Cor 6
9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Kidron · Aug 5, 2021

1ofthem said:

'"'Having a form of godliness""", is to talk about Christ but believe that you have to keep yourself saved.

"Having a form of godliness" is to talk about Jesus but teach that you can lose your salvation".

"walking in darkness" is shown when a person teaches salvation like this....

Those who are "In Darkness"......sound like this...

"i know that Jesus saves, ......but ..........but..........but.........let me show you over here in the Old Testament.......Let me show you over here these Laws and commandments".

"yes, Jesus saves.......however, you have to do this......and you have to do that.........and you have to make sure you dont do that".........

Jackson123 · Aug 5, 2021

1ofthem said:

And how do I know if I walk in the darkness

Paul tell us what is walk in the darkness look like and will not inherit kg

9'Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Kidron · Aug 5, 2021

Jackson123 said:

The born again, are already in the Kingdom of God.
We are not waiting for it.....We are IN IT.

"translated from Darkness..............>TO LIGHT". Colossians 1 13,14

See that?
Thats all the born again, become a part of the KOG, as........>"children of the Light", and Jesus is "the Light of the World", and God exists, 'IN LIGHT".

Jackson123 · Aug 5, 2021

Kidron said:

Is that verse from the Bible or your own verse?

1ofthem · Aug 5, 2021

Kidron said:

There are two sides to the coin. Those who believe they keep themselves saved through their own power... are lost. Just as those who don't believe and trust in Jesus to help them to overcome and/so they just continue to walk in darkness...they are lost, as well.

Both of those types have a form or godliness but deny the power thereof.

Both are lost.

Kidron · Aug 5, 2021

Jackson123 said:

You can be IN Darkness and you can WALK IN Darkness.

If you are IN It, you are an unbeliever.

If you are walking in it, then you are a deceived believer.

Jesus is in the Light, because Jesus is the Light.
When we are born again, we become a part of the Light, as "Children of the Light"< because we are IN CHRIST who is "the Light of the Word".

Kidron · Aug 5, 2021

Jackson123 said:

Its 2nd Timothy

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

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