Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

[CS1]

First of all, I want everyone to know that I forgive them. I always knew that standing up and waving my hand in such a contentious subject was going to draw a lot of fire.

I am more than prepared to share and educate if people are prepared to put the bible down and stop smacking me over the head with it for a moment. Sexuality is a taboo subject at the best of times and homosexuality is not only forbidden biblically, it is also completely misunderstood. Believe me, Atheists can be just as hostile toward us. And that is sad truth number one. We are universally despised by all.

Truth number two comes in the form of this testimony

Becket Cook is an interesting case. He is highly regarded and considered to be redeemed and the poster boy for Christian victory over homosexuality by some. However listen, just listen to him admit that he is still attracted to men. Yes he's chosen to become chaste and he's given himself to Christ. But his basic sexuality and his attraction to men remain. He just spends his life being guilty for it now.

And I have read and heard the same story over and over and over. People who claim they are no longer gay, but then admit they are still attracted to the same sex. I begged God for years to take my own sexuality away. But just like Becket Cook and every other testimony I've read, God doesn't do that for us and every singlr person carries the heaviest burden of guilt over their attraction.

So why are we put on this earth if we have no hope? Is God that cruel that he allows us to become something we don't want to be, abandon during this life and then casts us into the lake of fire with disgust at the end of it?

waving your victim banner is a false narrative. Christ has set me free from sexual perversion HE did not allow me to be tormented by this sin once I surrender to him. The fleshly desires are always pulling at us, yet I am victorious because Christ is Victorious.

For those who say they are no longer gay yet attracted to the same sex is no different than the married man who see a woman other than his wife as attractive yet

WE Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

You embrace sin and then look to justify the sin because those of the LGBTQ have been cuddled and victimized by a demonic worldview. You are gay because you choose to be gay because you seek pleasure out of sin. We sin because we like it.

 

[CS1]

Agreed to a point.

The heterosexual adulterer is allowed to choose a life of monogamy to a husband or wife. The homosexual adulterer is told that they cannot have a sex life at all. Sex when done properly comes from deep and loving affection toward the person you love. But we're told we are not allowed to love because our love leads to sex. The one thing a married Christian cannot possibly understand is the crushing loneliness we feel. Rejected by not only the church, but by all of society we are fooled into believing that we are inadequate in every way.

Plus for those of us raised in the faith (there are plenty of us) biblical teaching means gay people are forced into being denied love and affection. We don't get a say in who we are and then we get told, 'well now you gotta be alone or God gets mad at you.' I'm not asking for sympathy or understanding on this point, I'm just shedding light on the plain, bare naked truth. And for many of us, that cross is too great to bear. We're marginalised in our own congregation, given an impossible list of 'must do's' in order to stay right with God and the minute we fall under the weight of our burden we are cast out like demons and left to wander the earth alone.

And all of this propagates the hedonistic free sex lifestyle that Becket Cook renounced - that is what he actually turned his back on. He chose to become chaste, because like me he has zero sexual attraction to women, his baseline sexual attraction to men still remains. And myself personally, I was never really into promiscuity either. I turned my back on the 'gay lifestyle' many years ago. I found sex in the absence of love to be little more than a bodily function and the feeling of deep loneliness would come straight back afterward, with a new friend shame. Shame from knowing that I had been weak and fallen yet again.

*Please be aware that I am not seeking attention or sympathy in any response I give. I am sharing personal stories and viewpoints from the gay community so that you all may learn. It's not as black and white as you all think. And I would also add that my own personal viewpoint on gay marriage is that it is wrong. Like you, I believe in the scriptural definition of it. *

This is the perversion you are speaking in red

The relationship of homosexuality is not loved. it is a perversion of love. First off the deception is sex done properly is in the context of marriage between one man and one woman as GOD intended it. It is foolish to think Christians do not understand loneliness?

LOL, you are deceived it is because of loneliness many Christians have weakened to sinful acts because they thought it would end their loneliness. once a stronghold is established in sin like homosexuality the person desires to be free because the homosexual acts do not bring lasting joy or satisfaction. They have been taken captive by sexual addiction and idolatry in the very love of homosexuality. They will never have peace only torment, anger, and self-abuse which leads mostly to suicide.

You know this so you spend a great time trying to convince others of your own delusion. When that doesn't work you result in false narratives and say things like " biblical teaching means gay people are forced into being denied love and affection."

What a lie from the pit of hell. The bible doesn't teach no such thing. Your need to surrender to Jesus and ask him to set you free from your sexual addiction. He wants to do it and can. He did it for me.

 

[Gideon300]

I think that we’re all sinners homosexuals also liars also adulterers ect we all have sins that Gods willing to forgive , the condition is repentance

a liar has to stop lying because they don’t want to serve thier flesh will and desire

The same for homosexuals they have to repent of thier sin also rather than trying to use Jesus to condone and accept thier sin with the person

now , the worldly argument is “ that’s just how they were born not thier fault”

the biblical argument is “ Satan is the root of our sinful desires that oppose Gods will and desire for us that’s good and right

we shouldn’t think a homosexual is worse than even a liar , but we have to acknowledge the truth and come to repentance either way no matter what our particular sins and struggles are we don’t get to change what God said is an abomination and will send them to hell and condone it based on the worlds sympathy and decision that it’s normal and acceptable

no Christian should try to judge and forbid a homosexual from coming to Jesus , but we also oils never explain that what hey are doing is approved by God in fact we are told to tell the truth about sin so they know to repent

the problem is that the world has all these ideas about right and wrong , and then God the creator has all these other ideas that he says ok give eternal
Life and the worlds ways will lead to eternal damnation

every man is free to choose Thier own lists and desires and live a good life on earth depending on what they do

then the Bible explains that we all have to be judged according to what God said after we die, for the way we lived our life. Did we lie and cheat and steal our way through ? Did we consider ourselves high and look down on other sinners we didn’t approve of ? Did we love Tom please our own desires that God tells us will lead to damnation ? Or did we ever acknowledge the truth and repent and escape the devils deception in the world that tells us Gods word doesn’t apply anymore

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s okay to acknowledge we’re sinners , it’s not okay to condone and continue in those sins were made aware of is the thing it’s asensetive thing to the world but not even a question about this to God it’s another thing man needs to come to repentance for like Dodson and Gomorrah never did

I wish you would proofread what you write before you post. "but we also oils never explain"? What does that mean?

Havinf said all that, I agree with the general idea of what you are saying. People should also know that God is not arbitrary. He hates sin because He is holy, but also because He knows how destructive it is. I lost a Christian friend to AIDS. He backslid and went back to his old lifestyle. He repented but he died anyway, leaving behind a wife and two children. He was one of the most gifted people I've ever met. But messing with God is never a good idea. He is in heaven, but he has missed fulfilling God's purpose for his life. Such a waste.

 

[Mark47Oz]

This is the perversion you are speaking in red

The relationship of homosexuality is not loved. it is a perversion of love. First off the deception is sex done properly is in the context of marriage between one man and one woman as GOD intended it. It is foolish to think Christians do not understand loneliness?

LOL, you are deceived it is because of loneliness many Christians have weakened to sinful acts because they thought it would end their loneliness. once a stronghold is established in sin like homosexuality the person desires to be free because the homosexual acts do not bring lasting joy or satisfaction. They have been taken captive by sexual addiction and idolatry in the very love of homosexuality. They will never have peace only torment, anger, and self-abuse which leads mostly to suicide.

You know this so you spend a great time trying to convince others of your own delusion. When that doesn't work you result in false narratives and say things like " biblical teaching means gay people are forced into being denied love and affection."

What a lie from the pit of hell. The bible doesn't teach no such thing. Your need to surrender to Jesus and ask him to set you free from your sexual addiction. He wants to do it and can. He did it for me.

Unless you're actually gay, yourself you are speaking with no experience and therefore no authority.

I am not here to argue scriptural correctness because we all know what the Bible says. I'm giving human insight gained from being gay myself and talking to a great many gay people.

 

[justahumanbeing]

I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.

The first half of this passage appeals to me more as I have felt this personally. How people are all nice to you when you visit the church for the first time. But it's actually conditional. It's going to be there as long as you follow with "their" program. If any church works like that, it makes the church no different than a corporate setup. The Church is a physical representation of Christ and is first and foremost for the people who have lost their way.

The Church is there to lead lost souls back to Jesus, not in it's pace or desired speed, but when God decides that for His people. Unfortunately, that is not the case sadly. If there was such Christlike acceptance in every Church in the world, then people would not lose faith in God I think. For me, personally, I went looking for God, out of my way. I would say I made the efforts necessary to know Him as I know Him now. And I had help along the way, without which people actually have a good chance of losing their faith in Christ.

I'll be honest here. I don't think the Church is a loving place anymore. It could be for some. Not for me it isn't. It's a very biased place is what it is. People may not always get the acceptance or be given the chances they think they deserve to come back to God in churches. Churches can be very judgemental of individuals even when what they would be looking for is just fellowship. Churches can make people feel alienated and not wanted. These are all hard hitting truths felt by people who go to Church.

There are requirements for a follower of Christ to go to heaven. You cannot be gay till the end of your life and say that God is going to let you in heaven. You have to come out of your sins and live in the new life God has given you to live. A Christ centered life requires sacrifice. I feel that a relationship with Jesus should be the ultimate goal for any church goer. I go to church not for camaraderie anymore. I go to hear the word of God and stay among a group of people who call on God's name. That's where God is. But I would not trust those people with my life or my soul. God alone has my back, not people.

The Church can be a place where a believer can search for God and find Him. But I have not had that unconditional love from the Church. I would not expect it from the church or people or anyone for that matter. Unconditional love comes from God. Sometimes our parents. Mother maybe. Definitely not from any Church. The Bible is full of God's unconditional love and goodness. People will stab you in the back when it suits them. If they don't, don't let go of such a person. Because that is rare.

No i don't think most churches market offering unconditional love. Churches offer a way to Jesus. Fellowship in His name. A place for believers to gather and call on God's name. It is not a place for you to go looking for acceptance from people. If you go looking for that, get ready to be thoroughly disappointed.

 

[DeanM]

"It is not a place for you to go looking for acceptance from people."

Those who demand to be allowed to continue living in sin without repentance? The church wont accept them? Try an Episcopal church. Its my understanding perversion is no longer a problem for them.

 

[kaylagrl]

"It is not a place for you to go looking for acceptance from people."

Those who demand to be allowed to continue living in sin without repentance? The church wont accept them? Try an Episcopal church. Its my understanding perversion is no longer a problem for them.

Maybe some people have been churched so long that they forget their first steps as a Christian. The church is a hospital, where people come to heal from the ravages of the world. Jesus is the healer. Not everyone is healed instantly. Some struggle, some may struggle till the day they die. I had a friend who was a born again Christian yet he struggled with alcohol till the day he died.Some people just can't get past that struggle and I don't believe everyone who struggles will end up in hell. I believe God knows the heart of that person. I'm not justifying sin, but God has more mercy than I believe we can even understand. When we repent our past is forgotten, completely, and we get up and try again. I have a hard time believing a Christian that tells me they either have no struggle or have never struggle with a weakness in their lives. Some of us take baby steps, we fall, we fail and try again. And other Christians ought to be empathtic and understanding and come along beside people struggling and encourage them, pray for them and help them when they are down. At one point we were all sinners, saved by grace.

 

[SigP226]

It's a simple seperation. Hate the sin, not the sinner.

 

[kaylagrl]

It's a simple seperation. Hate the sin, not the sinner.

Yes, you are right, it is that simple. But I don't know any churches that have an outreach to the gay community without telling them there is nothing wrong with being gay.

 

[SigP226]

Yes, you are right, it is that simple. But I don't know any churches that have an outreach to the gay community without telling them there is nothing wrong with being gay.

I have zero problem with the outreach. We SHOULD reach out to all as Jesus was the ultimate example of reaching out to those that the church of the time shunned. (Ie... prostitutes, tax collectors etc)

However, the church does need to hold firm to the truths of the Bible. You HAVE to let them know that you do NOT agree with the lifestyle that they are living. The same as a church would speak up against adultry, a theif, liar, or even murderer.

All SIN is SIN and looked at equally by God. It ALL seperates us from Him. You can speak to them in love, but calling out their sin is important as well.

 

[DeanM]

When a sinner refuses to leave sin behind, then what? Paul had the answer that some dont want to accept.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I wish you would proofread what you write before you post. "but we also oils never explain"? What does that mean?

Havinf said all that, I agree with the general idea of what you are saying. People should also know that God is not arbitrary. He hates sin because He is holy, but also because He knows how destructive it is. I lost a Christian friend to AIDS. He backslid and went back to his old lifestyle. He repented but he died anyway, leaving behind a wife and two children. He was one of the most gifted people I've ever met. But messing with God is never a good idea. He is in heaven, but he has missed fulfilling God's purpose for his life. Such a waste.

I’m sorry I found this funny

Click to expand...
“I wish you would proofread what you write before you post. "but we also oils never explain"? What does that mean?

Havinf said all that,”

😇

sorry lol I just got tickled there .

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When a sinner refuses to leave sin behind, then what? Paul had the answer that some dont want to accept.

Yes and if they would only soak that part in about accountability and repentance , it would induce repentance because they believe , but they aren’t hearing the word to believe

 

[kaylagrl]

When a sinner refuses to leave sin behind, then what? Paul had the answer that some dont want to accept.

While I believe now is the time for salvation, you never let go of a person that isn't saved. My mother prayed for her brother for years and years. He took cancer and there came a time there was nothing that could be done for him. My mother couldn't be with him yet she continued to pray.

One day she was talking with her brother over the phone. She said that if she never saw him again on this earth, she hoped she'd see him in heaven. He said that she would. She was surprised at his response and asked if he was sure, and he said "yes, it's all right now, you will see me there". What my mother didn't know was that her brothers best friend was a born again Christian and was witnessing to him. He led him to the Lord before he died. And this is my point in this thread. There are are families that are praying for their loved ones to come home. We are to reach out and keep reaching out because we don't know who God will use for His purpose to lead someone to Christ. Now, if this poster has blocked me, which I don't doubt. the point remains. No one is outside the reach of God. I can tell many stories like this. People need to have a burden for souls and never give up, even when it appears the person is not listening. God is still at work.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

While I believe now is the time for salvation, you never let go of a person that isn't saved. My mother prayed for her brother for years and years. He took cancer and there came a time there was nothing that could be done for him. My mother couldn't be with him yet she continued to pray.

One day she was talking with her brother over the phone. She said that if she never saw him again on this earth, she hoped she'd see him in heaven. He said that she would. She was surprised at his response and asked if he was sure, and he said "yes, it's all right now, you will see me there". What my mother didn't know was that her brothers best friend was a born again Christian and was witnessing to him. He led him to the Lord before he died. And this is my point in this thread. There are are families that are praying for their loved ones to come home. We are to reach out and keep reaching out because we don't know who God will use for His purpose to lead someone to Christ. Now, if this poster has blocked me, which I don't doubt. the point remains. No one is outside the reach of God. I can tell many stories like this. People need to have a burden for souls and never give up, even when it appears the person is not listening. God is still at work.

Amen several times to what you wrote

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭

Gods will is that none should perish but all should come to that point of breaking like the prodigal and coming to themself again in repentance

 

[DeanM]

As i said. There are churches where gays can live in sin, have a ceremony so they can claim to be married, even get married by a gay preacher quoting from a gay bible. Not good enough. They demand to be accepted by bible believing churches as well as the catholic church.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

As i said. There are churches where gays can live in sin, have a ceremony so they can claim to be married, even get married by a gay preacher quoting from a gay bible. Not good enough. They demand to be accepted by bible believing churches as well as the catholic church.

yes I’m aware of that I saw it on the news a long time ago , there are churches where sinners of all types demand to be accepted. It’s all a defilement and not ordained of God .

gotta repent if we have homosexual urges and gotta repent if we gossip and lie about others I’ve often heard this argument “ homosexuals are worse God calls it an abomination” but

“These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

A proud look,

a lying tongue, and

hands that shed innocent blood,

An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,

feet that be swift in running to mischief,

A false witness that speaketh lies,

and he that soweth discord among brethren.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭6:16-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So I agree there shouldn’t be gay churches where any part of the doctrine says it’s acceptable by Gods word.

but there shouldn’t be doctrine explaining it’s any different or worse than lying and being an arguer creating division , gossiping slander ect being quick to get into mischief being prideful it’s all sin should be the doctrine and among the crowd should be sinners of every kind hearing the truth and repenting and working out thier own salvation.

 

[DeanM]

yes I’m aware of that I saw it on the news a long time ago , there are churches where sinners of all types demand to be accepted. It’s all a defilement and not ordained of God .

gotta repent if we have homosexual urges and gotta repent if we gossip and lie about others I’ve often heard this argument “ homosexuals are worse God calls it an abomination” but

“These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

A proud look,

a lying tongue, and

hands that shed innocent blood,

An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,

feet that be swift in running to mischief,

A false witness that speaketh lies,

and he that soweth discord among brethren.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭6:16-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So I agree there shouldn’t be gay churches where any part of the doctrine says it’s acceptable by Gods word.

but there shouldn’t be doctrine explaining it’s any different or worse than lying and being an arguer creating division , gossiping slander ect being quick to get into mischief being prideful it’s all sin should be the doctrine and among the crowd should be sinners of every kind hearing the truth and repenting and working out thier own salvation.

Agreed. We all have out favorite sin to deal with. This guy here wanting to be allowed communion in, I think he said a catholic church, has stated he knows what scripture says as well as the church and has had it explained here time and again. I think he said he is 47 years old and its not fair that straight people can get married and be accepted and he cant. Well like I told my kids, life aint fair so this Mark fellow needs to decide what he wants because I dont see the catholic church caving on this and the churches that have are taking their congregation to hell.

 

[CS1]

Unless you're actually gay, yourself you are speaking with no experience and therefore no authority.

I am not here to argue scriptural correctness because we all know what the Bible says. I'm giving human insight gained from being gay myself and talking to a great many gay people.

it is not enough to know what the word of God says it is if one is obeying it or not. One doesn't have to be gay to see the deception of it.
I don't have to be a crack addict to know thw demoralizing effects of the addiction. I don't have to contract HIV to see the suffering of those who have from the sin of Homosexuality.

I am not gay but I have suffered from abuse by those who are homosexual. I don't have to go into great details to receive your endorsement of what is a perversion. You are living with a sinful addiction that will destroy you and take you to hell. You are no authority either you are just bound and addicted to sexual idolatry. The Lord Jesus wants to set you free but you have chosen to justify the act of sin and have convinced yourself
1. you are a victim
2. chose to live with the sin and seek those who will pacify you with agreement.
3. you know the word of God but do not reverence it as such. Therefore you will do what is right in your own eyes.


It is sad. You will ultimately lose everything. You don't know what love is.

 

[Mark47Oz]

Maybe some people have been churched so long that they forget their first steps as a Christian. The church is a hospital, where people come to heal from the ravages of the world. Jesus is the healer. Not everyone is healed instantly. Some struggle, some may struggle till the day they die. I had a friend who was a born again Christian yet he struggled with alcohol till the day he died.Some people just can't get past that struggle and I don't believe everyone who struggles will end up in hell. I believe God knows the heart of that person. I'm not justifying sin, but God has more mercy than I believe we can even understand. When we repent our past is forgotten, completely, and we get up and try again. I have a hard time believing a Christian that tells me they either have no struggle or have never struggle with a weakness in their lives. Some of us take baby steps, we fall, we fail and try again. And other Christians ought to be empathtic and understanding and come along beside people struggling and encourage them, pray for them and help them when they are down. At one point we were all sinners, saved by grace.

You don't know what love is.

Actually, I do.

Love is patient
Love is kind
Love does not judge
Love allows you to see past all the bad and into the good of a person
Love compels you to keep on trying, even when you fall short
Love wills you you to never let go and never give up
Love changes you so slowly and gently it is painless and joyful
Love takes away the pain of the scorn of others.
Love is the very presence of God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit

And the greatest act of love of all is forgiveness.