Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

[Grandpa]

Can someone explain how reaching out to someone who is struggling with sins of a sexual nature, any different than reaching out to a bully, a habitual liar, thief, career criminal, professional hitman, or gossiper?

A bully isn't necessarily sinning.

Not sure why you even put that one in there.

 

[kaylagrl]

Can someone explain how reaching out to someone who is struggling with sins of a sexual nature, any different than reaching out to a bully, a habitual liar, thief, career criminal, professional hitman, or gossiper?

A great point!! Some may know the name Ravi Zacharias. He was an apologist. He was well known around the world. I had watched some of his videos and he seemed like a very intelligent and Godly man. He passed away not long ago and it was revealed that he was having sex with the workers at several spas that he owned. The women came forward after his death and said he had abused them. Of course he was married and founded a ministry. They were left trying to answer for his sins. Is he in heaven or hell today? Only God knows.

 

[peldom10]

Thank you for engaging me in this question!! I appreciate it. Ok, I'm going to tell you a quick story to compare and show what I mean.

A young couple has just moved beside my parents. Nice couple. My mother informed me the other day that they are not married, but that they are Christian. A former pastor friend is their pastor now. Now I can't judge him, I don't know what he may have told them about their situation. But they are living together and taking part fully in church. Now, here's the kicker, her father is a pastor.

Now, is this sin, correct? If yes, then do we accept it? Do you see what I mean? It seems there are things we the church are tolerating and other things that we don't. I'm just saying if Jesus was walking the streets today how would He reach out to the gay community? How would He show love?

No...it is not acceptable and they must be admonished for not keeping God's commandments. That's called judging righteously.
God's word has no space or place for PC. Those who do it are the ones referred in scriptures as the ones Christ will...spew the out of His mouth.....

Jesus is Jesus..He does not change...He would approach such as He did while on this earth...straight forward with determination to get their attention. We as ambassadors for Christ must do as we witness for Him while on this earth..

 

[peldom10]

Can someone explain how reaching out to someone who is struggling with sins of a sexual nature, any different than reaching out to a bully, a habitual liar, thief, career criminal, professional hitman, or gossiper?

So...you are saying God's is a ......bully .....for having commandments? You are applying earthly norms to God's spiritual world of standards. Suggest you study scriptures.

 

[kaylagrl]

No...it is not acceptable and they must be admonished for not keeping God's commandments. That's called judging righteously.
God's word has no space or place for PC. Those who do it are the ones referred in scriptures as the ones Christ will...spew the out of His mouth.....

Jesus is Jesus..He does not change...He would approach such as He did while on this earth...straight forward with determination to get their attention. We as ambassadors for Christ must do as we witness for Him while on this earth..

Ok. But they unmarried, living together and not feeling convicted enough to change. Are we being hypocritical as a church being more accepting of one sin over another?

 

[kaylagrl]

So...you are saying God's is a ......bully .....for having commandments? You are applying earthly norms to God's spiritual world of standards. Suggest you study scriptures.

I don't think that is what the poster meant, but I will let them explain that themselves.

 

[peldom10]

A great point!! Some may know the name Ravi Zacharias. He was an apologist. He was well known around the world. I had watched some of his videos and he seemed like a very intelligent and Godly man. He passed away not long ago and it was revealed that he was having sex with the workers at several spas that he owned. The women came forward after his death and said he had abused them. Of course he was married and founded a ministry. They were left trying to answer for his sins. Is he in heaven or hell today? Only God knows.

Remember...God forgives sin. Did the subject seek and receive forgiveness before passing? Judgement of Him would not be appropriate...because we do not know.

 

[peldom10]

Ok. But they unmarried, living together and not feeling convicted enough to change. Are we being hypocritical as a church being more accepting of one sin over another?

Not a church which keeps God's commandments.
Admittedly, a challenge to find ...today.

We just left a church which adopted new standards of acceptance...in violation of God's word. We are reminded the Bible has no word on man's denominations....come out of her God warns.

 

[49]

First of all, I want everyone to know that I forgive them. I always knew that standing up and waving my hand in such a contentious subject was going to draw a lot of fire.

I am more than prepared to share and educate if people are prepared to put the bible down and stop smacking me over the head with it for a moment. Sexuality is a taboo subject at the best of times and homosexuality is not only forbidden biblically, it is also completely misunderstood. Believe me, Atheists can be just as hostile toward us. And that is sad truth number one. We are universally despised by all.

Truth number two comes in the form of this testimony

Becket Cook is an interesting case. He is highly regarded and considered to be redeemed and the poster boy for Christian victory over homosexuality by some. However listen, just listen to him admit that he is still attracted to men. Yes he's chosen to become chaste and he's given himself to Christ. But his basic sexuality and his attraction to men remains. He just spends his life being guilty for it now.

And I have read and heard the same story over and over and over. People who claim they are no longer gay, but then admit they are still attracted to the same sex. I begged God for years to take my own sexuality away. But just like Becket Cook and every other testimony I've read, God doesn't do that for us and every singlr person carries the heaviest burden of guilt over their attraction.

So why are we put on this earth if we have no hope? Is God that cruel that he allows us to become something we don't want to be, abandons during this life and then casts us into the lake of fire with disgust at the end of it?

And I have read and heard the same story over and over and over. People who claim they are no longer gay, but then admit they are still attracted to the same sex. I begged God for years to take my own sexuality away. But just like Becket Cook and every other testimony I've read, God doesn't do that for us and every singlr person carries the heaviest burden of guilt over their attraction.

So why are we put on this earth if we have no hope? Is God that cruel that he allows us to become something we don't want to be, abandons during this life and then casts us into the lake of fire with disgust at the end of it?

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

 

[kaylagrl]

Remember...God forgives sin. Did the subject seek and receive forgiveness before passing? Judgement of Him would not be appropriate...because we do not know.

That's true, we don't know. My point there was that people struggle with sin sometimes and they don't always win the battle. Clearly he was sinning in secret. @Mark has been very open and honest with his struggles. I think we too need too be honest that there are times in our own Christian lives we have struggled with a temptation or sin. We need to be a little more empathetic in reaching out to others.

 

[peldom10]

Humm we were so close... I thought we had a moment of understanding here. You wanna shake hands and move on? How do we reach out to the gay community in love, as Christ would, without compromise? I'm willing to move on, you?

Remember you are the one who cast the ...stupid stone...not me.

I automatically forgive when trespassed, as occurred here.

 

[Sipsey]

A bully isn't necessarily sinning.

Not sure why you even put that one in there.

I included it to try and cover someone who physically or emotionally abuses others. It might not be the perfect word to use, but Scripture speaks about prayer not being answered due to treating others wrongly.

 

[Sipsey]

So...you are saying God's is a ......bully .....for having commandments? You are applying earthly norms to God's spiritual world of standards. Suggest you study scriptures.

What? I’m afraid you missed the context of who can sin. Please read it again, slowly.

 

[peldom10]

That's true, we don't know. My point there was that people struggle with sin sometimes and they don't always win the battle. Clearly he was sinning in secret. @Mark has been very open and honest with his struggles. I think we too need too be honest that there are times in our own Christian lives we have struggled with a temptation or sin. We need to be a little more empathetic in reaching out to others.

em·pa·thy
/ˈempəTHē/
noun

• 1.the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

Really? No I do not share those feelings and will not understand sinfulness ( acceptance is inferred here).

You wish to apply PC where the Bible does not allow it. That is new age religion stuff and must be rejected.

 

[kaylagrl]

em·pa·thy
/ˈempəTHē/
noun

• 1.the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

Really? No I do not share those feelings and will not understand sinfulness ( acceptance is inferred here).

You wish to apply PC where the Bible does not allow it. That is new age religion stuff and must be rejected.

No, I don't accept it. You must read back to what people are saying. I have said marriage is between a man and a woman and that I do not agree with homosexuality. Read back and you will see.

 

[ResidentAlien]

First of all, I want everyone to know that I forgive them. I always knew that standing up and waving my hand in such a contentious subject was going to draw a lot of fire.

I am more than prepared to share and educate if people are prepared to put the bible down and stop smacking me over the head with it for a moment. Sexuality is a taboo subject at the best of times and homosexuality is not only forbidden biblically, it is also completely misunderstood. Believe me, Atheists can be just as hostile toward us. And that is sad truth number one. We are universally despised by all.

Truth number two comes in the form of this testimony

Becket Cook is an interesting case. He is highly regarded and considered to be redeemed and the poster boy for Christian victory over homosexuality by some. However listen, just listen to him admit that he is still attracted to men. Yes he's chosen to become chaste and he's given himself to Christ. But his basic sexuality and his attraction to men remains. He just spends his life being guilty for it now.

And I have read and heard the same story over and over and over. People who claim they are no longer gay, but then admit they are still attracted to the same sex. I begged God for years to take my own sexuality away. But just like Becket Cook and every other testimony I've read, God doesn't do that for us and every singlr person carries the heaviest burden of guilt over their attraction.

So why are we put on this earth if we have no hope? Is God that cruel that he allows us to become something we don't want to be, abandons during this life and then casts us into the lake of fire with disgust at the end of it?

Not really interested in understanding homosexuality but the gospel of Jesus Christ. I understand you may be struggling; we all struggle. The way to overcome is by His blood and His word. If you decide you want to talk God's word, bro, look me up.

"Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret."—Ephesians 5:11-12.

 

[Unearthed]

So...you are saying God's is a ......bully .....for having commandments? You are applying earthly norms to God's spiritual world of standards. Suggest you study scriptures.

That is quite clearly not what he was asking.

 

[Jocund]

I can go along with what you're saying, but you need you understand this.

Sin starts from a conscious decision normally. And yes, of course we make a conscious decision if we become sexually active, but the decision to who we are attracted to is not something we get a say in. In fact, many people who are gay are shocked and abhorred at first when they discover they've got the 'affliction' themselves. I was myself, to the point of suicide. Which again is not that uncommon among us. (Yes, I attempted suicide by overdose and died when I was 16. I had a near death experience and got frightened and came back)

This is deeper than temptation. It's not like drug it alcohol addiction where we make a bad decision that leads us down a dark path. Many of us literally grow up only knowing this way.

A great number of us, including myself, have never ever felt sexual attraction to the opposite sex. Yep, in 47 years of life I've never been attracted to a single woman. I love females dearly and often become very close to them emotionally but there is never even the slightest hint of romantic spark. In fact women are dearly loved by all gay men. We see them as the most fabulous of creatures who are intelligent, caring and full of grace and class.

There are three levels to this:

1) sinful temptation that is completely resisted
2) temptation + action + repentance
3) temptation + action + endorsing and justifying sinful behaviour

There is no place in the kingdom of heaven for 3).

 

[Mark47Oz]

As long as you live this life the lust of the flesh remains.

Being in Christ and Saved means we have hope to overcome this sin

Being Saved doesn't mean you are sinless. It doesn't mean you will stop wanting your favorite sins.

What it does mean is that they become less attractive to you and you wont act on your impulses when you know it is wrong.

Agreed to a point.

The heterosexual adulterer is allowed to choose a life of monogamy to a husband or wife. The homosexual adulterer is told that they cannot have a sex life at all. Sex when done properly comes from deep and loving affection toward the person you love. But we're told we are not allowed to love because our love leads to sex. The one thing a married Christian cannot possibly understand is the crushing loneliness we feel. Rejected by not only the church, but by all of society we are fooled into believing that we are inadequate in every way.

Plus for those of us raised in the faith (there are plenty of us) biblical teaching means gay people are forced into being denied love and affection. We don't get a say in who we are and then we get told, 'well now you gotta be alone or God gets mad at you.' I'm not asking for sympathy or understanding on this point, I'm just shedding light on the plain, bare naked truth. And for many of us, that cross is too great to bear. We're marginalised in our own congregation, given an impossible list of 'must do's' in order to stay right with God and the minute we fall under the weight of our burden we are cast out like demons and left to wander the earth alone.

And all of this propagates the hedonistic free sex lifestyle that Becket Cook renounced - that is what he actually turned his back on. He chose to become chaste, because like me he has zero sexual attraction to women, his baseline sexual attraction to men still remains. And myself personally, I was never really into promiscuity either. I turned my back on the 'gay lifestyle' many years ago. I found sex in the absence of love to be little more than a bodily function and the feeling of deep loneliness would come straight back afterward, with a new friend shame. Shame from knowing that I had been weak and fallen yet again.

*Please be aware that I am not seeking attention or sympathy in any response I give. I am sharing personal stories and viewpoints from the gay community so that you all may learn. It's not as black and white as you all think. And I would also add that my own personal viewpoint on gay marriage is that it is wrong. Like you, I believe in the scriptural definition of it. *

 

[Mark47Oz]

There are three levels to this:

1) sinful temptation that is completely resisted
2) temptation + action + repentance
3) temptation + action + endorsing and justifying sinful behaviour

There is no place in the kingdom of heaven for 3).

My brother in law is an unrepentant alcoholic and definitely level three. He drinks, he gets into fights, he abuses my sister and he never even says sorry. Ever.

Gay marriage is also level three. I get that. Most gay people would disagree with me, but I believe that marriage is a special vow and should be reserved for heterosexual couples as is prescribed in scripture.

Level 1 one for Gay people is pretty much impossible. I'm not going to incriminate Becket Cook personally, because I don't know him, but I have met many like him and they all fall eventually. Then they become level 2 and then either fall to level three or reach to attain level 1 again.