To what extent does the OT apply to Christians?

[Jocund]

Good post, I just had two comments:

Now in the New Testament in the book of ACTS, Chapter 10, Peter sees a vision three times where there are unclean animals and God tells him in the dream to get up, kill and eat those animals. While the real meaning of this dream was that God intended the Gospel to be preached to all in the world whether they be Jew or Gentile, a lot of Christians take it that it meant that God deemed all foods worthy to be eaten. While some would say that Peter himself didn't interpret this vision that way and he in fact didn't.

In Romans Paul states that all foods are worthy to be eaten, but if someone considers something unclean, it is unclean to them.

"I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean." - Romans 14:14 KJV

If you really had Christ in you, you would treat everyone with respect and would accept that everyone has the basic right to life and to feel secure.

Respect was certainly not Jesus' response to the money changers / Pharisees. Jesus says to love our enemies (Matthew 5:44) but this is different than loving our neighbours (Luke 10:29). It's complicated.

 

[Blik]

The bible says that no man can keep the law so then anyone who feels they can’t sin or they lost their salvation because they still sin Is trying to Maintain their salvation by works.

I think that is a ridiculous thought. It is also a thought that opposes what Jesus taught. What of the many many people who love the Lord and want to follow Him, do you actually think they should not do that because there is some people who work for salvation?

We are also not to look too man to guide us, but to look to God for our guidance. You suggest looking a men who think their works can save to guide them to not work!

 

[ResidentAlien]

You may ask. And I will answer you. I am a Christian.

Thank you very much.

It can get a little confusing. I take take my directives from the New Testament. I look there to make sense of what's right or wrong.

We can learn from the Old Testament. Jesus said: "And he said to them, 'Therefore every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house, who brings out of his treasure what is new and what is old.' "—Matthew 13:52 We should study the Old Testament but no longer consider it our guardian. Paul said in Galatians 3:24-26—"So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith."

I can't tell you what to believe, my only advice would be to rely mainly on the New Testament.

 

[justahumanbeing]

In Romans Paul states that all foods are worthy to be eaten, but if someone considers something unclean, it is unclean to them.

"I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean." - Romans 14:14 KJV



Respect was certainly not Jesus' response to the money changers / Pharisees. Jesus says to love our enemies (Matthew 5:44) but this is different than loving our neighbours (Luke 10:29). It's complicated.[/QUOTE]

The verse where Paul talks about clean and unclean foods is one of the best that can be said in support of how the New Testament redefines what is acceptable to be eaten and what is not in God's eyes. Thank you for sharing 🙂

 

[Blik]

The bible says that no man can keep the law so then anyone who feels they can’t sin or they lost their salvation because they still sin Is trying to Maintain their salvation by works.

You say there are people who think they lose their salvation because they are so human they still sin without wanting to, but you don't name these people. I haven't met one, have you?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Which OT commandments do you feel apply which don't also appear in the NT?

That don't also appear In the new covenant?none of them,not even remember to keep Saturday holy.

If JESUS were to come walking around the corner,some would run up and hug his shadow.

 

[Jocund]

That don't also appear In the new covenant?none of them,not even remember to keep Saturday holy.

If JESUS were to come walking around the corner,some would run up and hug his shadow.

Then you agree that in order to find all of the relevant commandments you need only look in the NT?

 

[Gideon300]

Hello.

I have recieved many mixed messages from Christians regarding the OT. One on hand, many argue that the dietary laws, practises such as circumcision and obeying the Sabbath do not need to be observed. Many other Christians argue homosexuality should not be practised on the basis that it is forbidden in the OT.

Would anyone like to offer some clarity?

Thank you

The New Testament clarifies and explains the Old. So, for example, it is clear from the New that we are no longer subject to the law of Moses, dietary restrictions and Sabbath observation. Christians do not follow the feasts that were required of Israel. Temple worship cannot happen for obvious reasons.

God has not changed His ways. Lord Jesus made it clear that outward observation of a set of rules is not enough (sermon on the mount). What is clear is two things:

First, the heart of fallen man has no inclination whatever to obey God. Second, God always intended to replace the fallen nature of man with the new nature that is of Him and a consequence of being born again.

Those who endeavor to follow the Old Testament rules and regulations are destined to fail. Only those who live by the Spirit know the victorious life that Christ came to give us. God is looking for fruit - love, joy, peace etc. Some of the most heartless people I've met were "strong" Christians, full of condemnation and judgement on those who struggled with life's challenges. They placed burdens on believers yet did not teach them how to overcome the problems they faced.

Some Christians wonder why they and others go through hard times and much failure. One of the reasons is to break down the judgemental attitude that so many possess. If we experience failure in an area, we will some compassion for others who struggle.

 

[Gideon300]

The moral laws still apply, as they are a reflection of God's nature. The Levitical laws don't, as they were instituted under a different covenant and priesthood (that of Levi), whereas now we have a new priesthood, that of Judah. Read Hebrews 7 and 8...

Hebrews 7:12-14 (NASB) For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.

Not quite. Hebrews tells us that Lord Jesus is the eternal High Priest, of the order of Melchizedek. That's why Lord Jesus is High Priest to all believers, not just those Jews who accept Him.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Luke 7:26-29
King James Version

26 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet.

27 This is [he], of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

29 And all the people that heard [him], and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

 

[crossnote]

Not quite. Hebrews tells us that Lord Jesus is the eternal High Priest, of the order of Melchizedek. That's why Lord Jesus is High Priest to all believers, not just those Jews who accept Him.

Read carefully Hebrews 7-10, it is more than a new Priesthood...

Hebrews 7:12 (KJV) For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 8:8 (KJV) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

 

[Blik]

Then you agree that in order to find all of the relevant commandments you need only look in the NT?

If I can butt in, boy do I not agree! It is like reading the last chapter of a book because it is what happened at the end. The old testament and its commands tells the complete story of the spirit, it tells what heaven is like as the camp in the wilderness tells of it. It tells what Christ does for us as Christ fulfilled the sacrificial system. The first five books is an outline of what God is like. The command to cut foreskin tells us what is expected of us when we circumcise of the heart. The dietary laws tell us what sort of information to feed our minds as it cuts out anything fed from garbage. On and on.

Even to think of living without knowing the 23rd Psalm as a command to let God lead us.

 

[crossnote]

The old testament and its commands tells the complete story of the spirit, it tells what heaven is like as the camp in the wilderness tells of it.

A shadow is NOT a complete story...

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

 

[Jocund]

If I can butt in, boy do I not agree! It is like reading the last chapter of a book because it is what happened at the end. The old testament and its commands tells the complete story of the spirit, it tells what heaven is like as the camp in the wilderness tells of it. It tells what Christ does for us as Christ fulfilled the sacrificial system. The first five books is an outline of what God is like. The command to cut foreskin tells us what is expected of us when we circumcise of the heart. The dietary laws tell us what sort of information to feed our minds as it cuts out anything fed from garbage. On and on.

Even to think of living without knowing the 23rd Psalm as a command to let God lead us.

The NT covers this same thought with Christ. Psalm 23 is a beautiful section. And I personally cherish the book of Proverbs. But I don't see those sections as explicit commandments (I'm not sure how to best describe it).

I am curious what you mean by "feed our minds"? Is there a passage that this points to?

 

[CS1]

Hello.

I have recieved many mixed messages from Christians regarding the OT. One on hand, many argue that the dietary laws, practises such as circumcision and obeying the Sabbath do not need to be observed. Many other Christians argue homosexuality should not be practised on the basis that it is forbidden in the OT.

Would anyone like to offer some clarity?

Thank you

There have already been given many good responses. The Old and New are One. 66 books are all the inspired word of God. Fully and completely without error. All is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

When this was said by Paul recorded in 2 Tim 3:16-17 there was not yet a New Testament written the gospel message was just starting to reach the whole world in that day. God is the authority in all. Jesus is the Supreme authority whenever HE is Speaking because He is God. " Before Abraham was I AM". Jesus said the law would not go away until all was fulfilled Jesus then said NOW HE is the ONLY way, the Only Truth, and the Only WAY TO ETERNAL LIFE.

 

[Blik]

A shadow is NOT a complete story...

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

A shadow is an accurate outline. God gave us these outlines, you are telling God you want nothing to do with what God gave you. That is being very presumptuous.

 

[crossnote]

A shadow is an accurate outline. God gave us these outlines, you are telling God you want nothing to do with what God gave you. That is being very presumptuous.

Will you forever chase shadows or one day come to embrace the Substance?

Colossians 2:17 NKJV
[17] which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Do you kiss the photo of your spouse or do you kiss him?

The shadow only points to the substance but is a poor substitute for the actual substance.

 

[Blik]

Will you forever chase shadows or one day come to embrace the Substance?

Colossians 2:17 NKJV
[17] which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Do you kiss the photo of your spouse or do you kiss him?

The shadow only points to the substance but is a poor substitute for the actual substance.

I know the substance because I have learned how it began. You only know the exterior, as you believe it is right to turn a blind eye to the foundations.

It is like building a house on sand. The Lord tells us scripture is for our learning, you scorn the learning of scripture, saying you want only the small part of it, not any of the foundation.

 

[crossnote]

I know the substance because I have learned how it began. You only know the exterior, as you believe it is right to turn a blind eye to the foundations.

It is like building a house on sand. The Lord tells us scripture is for our learning, you scorn the learning of scripture, saying you want only the small part of it, not any of the foundation.

Just to reveal your silliness, show me one place where I told others to avoid the OT. Your false accusatory assumptions has blinded your thinking. Actually I find Genesis 1-3 the most foundational of all the other 1186 chapters of the Bible.
Sorry if I don’t fit your preconceived mold.

 

[Dino246]

Just to reveal your silliness, show me one place where I told others to avoid the OT.

Good luck. She NEVER supports her ridiculous accusations with actual evidence.