To what extent does the OT apply to Christians?
- Thread starter Shlomit
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Hello wonderful @Blik,
How are you? So nice of you to respond to my post.
I agree that, God is well pleased when our works are according to His Will and done because of love for Him.
Here is a question for you.... Where should our FOCUS be? On Works or Loving God?
In the letter to Ephesus in Revelation 2, Jesus reprimands the church for losing their First Love and focusing only on works. It appears to me that God is more interested in our genuine love for Him than our works for Him.
Revelation 2:1-5 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, ‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:
2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;
3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary.
4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.
5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.
In my own walk with the Lord, I have found that by keeping my focus on loving God….the good works simply follow…. It becomes easy to do good works if I keep God as my First Love.
Trying to get people to focus on the Written Law is just to show them that they need Jesus’ Blood and Body because no one is justified by the law.
After Salvation, our focus needs to be on loving God FIRST then, loving others as we love ourselves. The Spiritual Laws are written on our hearts now… and with the power of the Holy Spirit we can walk in love and obey the Spiritual Laws.
Here is an example of the difference between the Written Law and the Spiritual Law:
Matthew 5:38-42 New King James Version (NKJV)
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.
41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
The eye for an eye is the Written Law. The offering of the other cheek is the Spiritual Law.
It is time for our focus to be on Loving God FIRST and loving others as we love ourselves. There’s no reason for any of us to put ourselves or others under the Law of Works.
As a new Christian, it can be confusing and worrisome when they find themselves STILL sinning....
However, even Paul faced this dilemma and wrote about it in Romans 7 and 8. Never once does Paul say he lost his salvation but rather who shall deliver him from his wretchedness.....he found that the answer is the same as salvation....Christ shall deliver him because Paul cannot deliver himself from sinning even after being saved and born again.
So, HOW do we STOP sinning?!!! Answer: By the restoring of our soul which consists of our mind, will and emotions.
Jesus Christ's work is to save our soul; and
The Holy Spirit's work is to restore our soul.
The restoring of our soul is accomplished by the renewing of our mind with the Word and Spirit of God so that we can know the perfect Will of God. It's a life long process but, Jesus Christ has promised that we will be like Him.
When we sin, we simply repent and stay in the Word of God and ask to be filled with the power of the Holy Spirit so that you can walk by the Spirit and not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
As a new Christian, it can be confusing and worrisome when they find themselves STILL sinning....
However, even Paul faced this dilemma and wrote about it in Romans 7 and 8. Never once does Paul say he lost his salvation but rather who shall deliver him from his wretchedness.....he found that the answer is the same as salvation....Christ shall deliver him because Paul cannot deliver himself from sinning even after being saved and born again.
So, HOW do we STOP sinning?!!! Answer: By the restoring of our soul which consists of our mind, will and emotions.
Jesus Christ's work is to save our soul; and
The Holy Spirit's work is to restore our soul.
The restoring of our soul is accomplished by the renewing of our mind with the Word and Spirit of God so that we can know the perfect Will of God. It's a life long process but, Jesus Christ has promised that we will be like Him.
When we sin, we simply repent and stay in the Word of God and ask to be filled with the power of the Holy Spirit so that you can walk by the Spirit and not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
The only thing I could add to make this post perfect answer would be "By the restoring of our soul [to the trust, i.e., confidence in, God's love for us] which consists of [thus loving God, as we love Him because (were given to come to believe) He first loved us] [with all] our mind, will, and emotions.
After all, the lack of trust in God is the impetus of sin, i.e., we sin, the same as Adam and Eve did, because of a lack of faith in God's love and faithfulness that would never lie to us.
Now!!! it is silliness!! God in the old testament is silliness? And to think to you it is not scripture I speak of but a "conceived mold"! I agree, what I say is only a fleshly interpretation, it must accurately reflect what God says or it is nothing. You are not reflecting the Lord.
Romans 15: 4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
This is from the new testament. I am so glad you I am SO grad you agree to those first three verses. Do you know why God gave light at first, but the sun and moon not until later? Gen. 1:14-18.
I think our focus should be on the Lord and His kingdom. We can choose to live in the secular world, completely absorbed with the ways of the flesh, or we can live knowing the spiritual world operated by the Lord is the true world that will last forever as the secular world disappears. If we do this the entire fleshly ideas surrounding "works" disappears. We live with the Lord and our lives reflect Him, so the world asks us if we are working for salvation but that is the fleshly world asking that. It is not part of our thoughts or living.Hello wonderful @Blik,
How are you? So nice of you to respond to my post.
I agree that, God is well pleased when our works are according to His Will and done because of love for Him.
Here is a question for you.... Where should our FOCUS be? On Works or Loving God?
In the letter to Ephesus in Revelation 2, Jesus reprimands the church for losing their First Love and focusing only on works. It appears to me that God is more interested in our genuine love for Him than our works for Him.
Revelation 2:1-5 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, ‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:
2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;
3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary.
4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.
5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.
In my own walk with the Lord, I have found that by keeping my focus on loving God….the good works simply follow…. It becomes easy to do good works if I keep God as my First Love.
Trying to get people to focus on the Written Law is just to show them that they need Jesus’ Blood and Body because no one is justified by the law.
After Salvation, our focus needs to be on loving God FIRST then, loving others as we love ourselves. The Spiritual Laws are written on our hearts now… and with the power of the Holy Spirit we can walk in love and obey the Spiritual Laws.
Here is an example of the difference between the Written Law and the Spiritual Law:
Matthew 5:38-42 New King James Version (NKJV)
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.
41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
The eye for an eye is the Written Law. The offering of the other cheek is the Spiritual Law.
It is time for our focus to be on Loving God FIRST and loving others as we love ourselves. There’s no reason for any of us to put ourselves or others under the Law of Works.
I think our focus should be on the Lord and His kingdom. We can choose to live in the secular world, completely absorbed with the ways of the flesh, or we can live knowing the spiritual world operated by the Lord is the true world that will last forever as the secular world disappears. If we do this the entire fleshly ideas surrounding "works" disappears. We live with the Lord and our lives reflect Him, so the world asks us if we are working for salvation but that is the fleshly world asking that. It is not part of our thoughts or living.Hello wonderful @Blik,
How are you? So nice of you to respond to my post.
I agree that, God is well pleased when our works are according to His Will and done because of love for Him.
Here is a question for you.... Where should our FOCUS be? On Works or Loving God?
In the letter to Ephesus in Revelation 2, Jesus reprimands the church for losing their First Love and focusing only on works. It appears to me that God is more interested in our genuine love for Him than our works for Him.
Revelation 2:1-5 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, ‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:
2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;
3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary.
4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.
5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.
In my own walk with the Lord, I have found that by keeping my focus on loving God….the good works simply follow…. It becomes easy to do good works if I keep God as my First Love.
Trying to get people to focus on the Written Law is just to show them that they need Jesus’ Blood and Body because no one is justified by the law.
After Salvation, our focus needs to be on loving God FIRST then, loving others as we love ourselves. The Spiritual Laws are written on our hearts now… and with the power of the Holy Spirit we can walk in love and obey the Spiritual Laws.
Here is an example of the difference between the Written Law and the Spiritual Law:
Matthew 5:38-42 New King James Version (NKJV)
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.
41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
The eye for an eye is the Written Law. The offering of the other cheek is the Spiritual Law.
It is time for our focus to be on Loving God FIRST and loving others as we love ourselves. There’s no reason for any of us to put ourselves or others under the Law of Works.
When we live for the Lord, belonging completely to Him, all this controversy about the law disappears. The spirit of the law and the spirit of the Lord becomes one, so we live in the best obedience to this spirit as we can muster while in our fleshly bodies.
I'm sorry Blik, I cannot go on conversing with a person who manages to twist everything I say into an untruth. You have done this in previous posts, and now here. Have a nice day.
God in the old testament is silliness?...never said that.
And to think to you it is not scripture!... never said or inferred that
Wow, Blik…
Do you actually read the posts to which you respond, or do you just go ballistic the moment you see a word you don’t like?
Then I am truly not understand this "silliness" that seems to be connected to the old testament telling of what the new testament fulfilled. I did not mean to twist your posts, but I am so pleased if I am objecting to something that isn't there.
I would so like to shout about words of the Lord as the Lord tells us of Himself in the old testament, I would like everyone to know, love, and worship God, never misunderstand Him.
Hello Shlomit, I hope your day went as your name suggests.
i doubt you'll see this, but i may have a little unorthodox opinion regarding your post.
So it's hard to narrow down where to start when i'm typing, this is much easier in a verbal conversation but here goes:
Mattityahu5'17-20 - i think this is the crux of what you're getting at? the rest of these wonderful folk in here i think are getting more at Yirmeyahu31'31-34. I'm thinking more Romiyiym14. Read the last few verses there in rom14 and i think that holds it together nicely.
Sha'ul wrote that there was a resurrection like the sun, the moon, and the stars. christ says those who keep the teachings, and teach accordingly are call great in heaven, and those who do not and teach accordingly will be called least in heaven.
but look, honestly least in heaven is incredibly rich. if i am given 10 million dollars, i would not then compare myself to Jeff Besos. i would just be freaking out about not being poor, or worrying about food anymore. heaven is more valuable and christ shows there that those that kept the teachings, and those who did not, both of them had faith that surpassed that of the Parushim.
Christians eat all things. some people eat only vegetables. in D'varim Mosheh states that the Teaching was given so that we would be fortunate and well and have an easy time when entering the promised land. i don't think thats little lol after all the first sin ever committed directly was violating a food law.
Anyway i'm rambling. Christians reject Following what Yahh taught Mosheh because they don't have to as Goyyim. i think the conversation is a lot deeper than things coming out of ones mouths making the person unclean. i'll give someone air to respond to make it a discussion before i think to continue.
Boker Tov.
Anyway i'm rambling. Christians reject Following what Yahh taught Mosheh because they don't have to as Goyyim. i think the conversation is a lot deeper than things coming out of ones mouths making the person unclean. i'll give someone air to respond to make it a discussion before i think to continue.
Boker Tov.
Under law ancient Israel was purifying the outward man or the flesh but they could'nt see each others heart and other men could not know If they were sincere but GOD looks at the heart and wanted TRUTH magnified hence JESUS who spoke to the people about the truth In the sermon on the mount.
John was born under law but he Introduced JESUS and JESUS brought grace through faith and a person has to be sincere and not just saying(repenting) they believe but saying they believe because they are believing from the heart.
People who live without considering God part of their lives think of food as only for the stomach. Christians, seeped in the word, know that in God's world food is for feeding what is everlasting and eternal about them. Heathens read scripture as it applies to the diet, Christians read scripture as it applies to the soul.
In the old testament, before all God's people were given the holy spirit, those people were told to keep their diet clean as a symbol of keeping all things around them of cleanliness., Now, through the holy spirit we know that applies to the mind and soul, and what goes in the stomach is eliminated, what goes in the mind is not.
The old covenant says "do not eat this because it is unclean to you". These foods are not unclean to Christians (unless one esteems it to be so). There are Jewish Christians that follow the OT dietary laws, meaning that those foods deemed unclean in the OT are unclean to them in the NT.
What you say is not true in all cases.
Please, please as you read scripture that says to you that Jesus brought grace, giving us grace through the blood , know it was the first thing God did when Adam and Eve brought death to us. i Jesus fulfilled grace and made it perfect.
It was over 4,000 years after the world was created, if i wasn't for grace then every human---David, Daniel, Solomon, Moses, and all the saints would be dead in their sins.
Please, please as you read scripture that says to you that Jesus brought grace, giving us grace through the blood , know it was the first thing God did when Adam and Eve brought death to us. i Jesus fulfilled grace and made it perfect. Some Christians know Christ was the word and that word was from the beginning, but some think Christ was only after God created Christ as a man.
It was over 4,000 years after the world was created, if i wasn't for grace then every human---David, Daniel, Solomon, Moses, and all the saints would be dead in their sins.