Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

[OldSage]

I don't basically disagree with that.

I don't know what they really want to achieve. A lot of Christians egg Israel on - saying it's their right to the land.....well obviously the land constitutes large parts of Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon, so it seems to me that these Christians are egging Jews on to their own destruction.

The land comes under the Abrahamic Covenant, which comes under the caveat of circumcision,
which means, in short, that the Covenant only has force if the nation is Christian. Sorry. Fact.

Personally I think Christians should follow the Biblical mandate - to show mercy to the Jews.
For me this is easiest expressed by Christians in their own lands.

 

[kaylagrl]

No, Hamas are religious--their religion includes the right to commit acts of terrorism, in the name of their religion. It's a bad religion, but it's a religion.

No, I can't take religion out of this subject. Israel belongs to Jews, and a substantial number of Jews are still religious Jews. Support for Israel from Christians comes from their religious beliefs, that God is restoring the land to the Jews out of His promises given to Abraham.

God is restoring the land, it belongs to the Jews historically and Biblically. Hamas are terrorists attacking the Jews. They don't even recognize Israel's right to exist. So what's the issue of who to support?

Since you don't quote what you're responding to, you make it difficult to comment. Yes, the US was founded on Judeo/Christian values. But it was also founded on a compromise with Deism, the philosophy of the government establishing equality between Deistic values and conservative Christian values. The result has been a gradual erosion of the strong voice of Christina conservatism. A rise in support for atheistic Communism, for foreign religions, and for Islam is the result. There is now less compassion for the Jews, because it seems pragmatic to non-Christians to pacify the large majority of Muslims in the Middle East at the expense of a tiny Jewish State. Equality among religions and protecting religious minorities, like Judaism, in the Middle East now takes 2nd place to the necessity of calming down the vast majority of Muslims.

So America should give in to terrorism? Or support these countries by giving them money? There are still conservative Christians in this country, enough to influence elections and policy. We aren't about to give in to terrorist countries. Nor are we about to sit down while Democrats support BDS and other anti- Semitic ideals.

 

[soberxp]

Why can't Jews live in peace with others in promise land ?
New Testament and Old Testament
When New Testament come,In that special period
Jews think Christians are ignorant, Christians think Jews are ignorant
So God sent a third party,As we know, today's Muslims
According to the Koran,
Koran says Jews think Christians are ignorant, Christians think Jews are ignorant, we both Jews and Christians read the Bible
You are all ignorant........blablablablablablabla
But in fact, Muslims also commit the same ignorance as Jews and Christians
Muslims refused to recognize the Bible, though Koran says Jews think Christians are ignorant, Christians think Jews are ignorant, we both Jews and Christians read the Bible,You are all ignorant........blablablablablablabla

Human make mistakes. If Human don't make mistakes, there will be no Bible

Don't tell me what you know. I don't want to hear it, and I'm not interested in it, because I know what you're going to say

 

[kaylagrl]

I don't know what they really want to achieve. A lot of Christians egg Israel on - saying it's their right to the land.....well obviously the land constitutes large parts of Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon, so it seems to me that these Christians are egging Jews on to their own destruction.

The land comes under the Abrahamic Covenant, which comes under the caveat of circumcision,
which means, in short, that the Covenant only has force if the nation is Christian. Sorry. Fact.

Personally I think Christians should follow the Biblical mandate - to show mercy to the Jews.
For me this is easiest expressed by Christians in their own lands.

Abrahamic Covenant is still in effect today. It is their land, but Israel has also given up land for peace. Israel sits on 1% of the land in the ME and the Arabs can't even allow them that. They were offered land three times and refused. Whether Biblically or historically, either way you slice it, Christians should stand with it's ally and the only democracy in the ME.

 

[randyk]

God is restoring the land, it belongs to the Jews historically and Biblically. Hamas are terrorists attacking the Jews. They don't even recognize Israel's right to exist. So what's the issue of who to support?

The world has been largely allied with the Muslims in the Middle East, but have tolerated and accepted Israel's right to exist. How Israel came to be accepted, as a nation, by the U.N. is in itself a miracle. The UN tends to be very hostile to Israel.

Muslim terrorists in the regions around Israel are treated not as terrorists, but as "freedom fighters," fighting for a "homeland." I personally believe that any viable country needs reasonable territory to defend itself, and to provide resources. In a region like the Middle East, that for Israel requires possession of the West Bank, complete domination over the Gaza Strip, possession of the Golan Hts. and superior fire power over its immediate neighbors. It is also necessary that Israel have nukes, to defend against Iran.

So America should give in to terrorism? Or support these countries by giving them money? There are still conservative Christians in this country, enough to influence elections and policy. We aren't about to give in to terrorist countries. Nor are we about to sit down while Democrats support BDS and other anti- Semitic ideals.

I hope you're right. Since Obama things have been going "south" for Israel. Bernie Sanders is a joke. Biden is spineless, but gives weak support for Israel, at least. Trump was bold and strong, but the US kicked him out under questionable circumstances. I do think he continues to enjoy solid support in places. The Republicans are hopelessly conflicted. Let's hope we do continue to support Israel. That's my view anyway.

 

[kaylagrl]

Why can't Jews live in peace with others in promise land ?

That's the entire point. Even though God says the land belongs to Israel, much more land than they have now, they have given up land for piece. Israel is willing to live in peace, they have signed agreements for peace with other countries. Arabs were given three chances at land and turned them all down. So you need to turn that question around, why can't the Palistinians live in peace?!

 

[OldSage]

Abrahamic Covenant is still in effect today. It is their land, but Israel has also given up land for peace. Israel sits on 1% of the land in the ME and the Arabs can't even allow them that. They were offered land three times and refused. Whether Biblically or historically, either way you slice it, Christians should stand with it's ally and the only democracy in the ME.

It is not properly 'in effect' other than in the Church. The Covenant still has a clause for the Jews, but
as they refused the circumcision of the heart, which is the whole point of the covenant, they are still in the proverbial waiting lounge.
14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.
Of course an Old covenant Jew understands the Covenant in the physical sense, and Christians also seem to do the same. But I think this is a gross error. As Christians we are not able to teach a corporate Old Covenant salvation anyhow. We are under the Covenant of individual salvation. Every man dies for his own sins. I don't really understand why we should be promoting a corporate salvation. God can and I think will do that - but that is not really the new covenant message.

The Israelites I see are on Mt Zion with pure doctrine. That is really the only place in Revelation where I see physical Jerusalem. So perhaps we should also just focus on pure doctrine, which after all, if the Church is anything, should be something we have as a gift.

 

[kaylagrl]

The world has been largely allied with the Muslims in the Middle East, but have tolerated and accepted Israel's right to exist. How Israel came to be accepted, as a nation, by the U.N. is in itself a miracle. The UN tends to be very hostile to Israel.

Actually it was the League of Nations that recognized Israels right to exist, the UN is merely the upholder of that agreement. The UN is utterly corrupt and useless. I agree, it's a miracle. But America has always stood with their ally Israel.

Muslim terrorists in the regions around Israel are treated not as terrorists, but as "freedom fighters," fighting for a "homeland." I personally believe that any viable country needs reasonable territory to defend itself, and to provide resources. In a region like the Middle East, that for Israel requires possession of the West Bank, complete domination over the Gaza Strip, possession of the Golan Hts. and superior fire power over its immediate neighbors. It is also necessary that Israel have nukes, to defend against Iran.
,

I hope you're right. Since Obama things have been going "south" for Israel. Bernie Sanders is a joke. Biden is spineless, but gives weak support for Israel, at least. Trump was bold and strong, but the US kicked him out under questionable circumstances. I do think he continues to enjoy solid support in places. The Republicans are hopelessly conflicted. Let's hope we do continue to support Israel. That's my view anyway.

Yes, I agree. No way to tell who will win out with Biden. Will it be the anti- Semitic radicals or the moderates? So far it's the radicals that have been winning. Time will tell.

 

[kaylagrl]

It is not properly 'in effect' other than in the Church. The Covenant still has a clause for the Jews, but
as they refused the circumcision of the heart, which is the whole point of the covenant, they are still in the proverbial waiting lounge.
14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.
Of course an Old covenant Jew understands the Covenant in the physical sense, and Christians also seem to do the same. But I think this is a gross error. As Christians we are not able to teach a corporate Old Covenant salvation anyhow. We are under the Covenant of individual salvation. Every man dies for his own sins. I don't really understand why we should be promoting a corporate salvation. God can and I think will do that - but that is not really the new covenant message.

Yes, I realize that, that is why I say I don't need to use the Bible to prove the land belongs to Israel.

 

[soberxp]

That's the entire point. Even though God says the land belongs to Israel, much more land than they have now, they have given up land for piece. Israel is willing to live in peace, they have signed agreements for peace with other countries. Arabs were given three chances at land and turned them all down. So you need to turn that question around, why can't the Palistinians live in peace?!

cuz both of them no longer under the kindom of God.
One doesn't think Jesus is our Savior
One denies the Bible, but thinks that Jesus is the messenger of a certain God
There is a big problem with both of them.
BLIND
Deaf

 

[soberxp]

AND funny

 

[Oseas3]

The unbelieving Jews was broken off because of unbelief, and the remnant elect Jew will be grafted back into the Olive Tree Jesus Christ

Yes, Its true. Romans 9:v.21-22 and 27 to 29

21 Hath not the potter (the Potterclay-GOD) power over the clay (Israel is the clay-Isaiah 64:v.8) , of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction?


27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

Isaiah 64:v.8 - But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.


A Remnant will be saved

Revelation 7:v.1 to 4

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


The Remnant before GOD's Throne - Revelation 14:v.1 to 3

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having His Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four living beings, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth---> earth here is Israel - the clay , an old or former dry land <----.

Its it.

 

[Oseas3]

All Persons after the cross of Calvary are grafted into the Jewish Olive Tree Jesus Christ

Only those who believe in His name: John 1:v.12-13

12 As many as received JESUS, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: <--> check it out in Acts 4:v.12<--
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:v.36
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[Oseas3]

Yes the gospel was preached in Jerusalem to the Jew first

Yes, the Gospel was preached to the Jews first . Matt.10:v.5 to 8 and 14-15 and 22-23

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.


14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the Day of Judgment than for that city. (the Lord's Day, and this Day arrived),

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.



JESUS said: John 10:v.14 to 21

14 I am the good Shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: (the Gentile peoples) them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one Shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.

20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.



John 1:v.11-13
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him (Jews or Gentiles), to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[kaylagrl]

cuz both of them no longer under the kindom of God.
One doesn't think Jesus is our Savior
One denies the Bible, but thinks that Jesus is the messenger of a certain God
There is a big problem with both of them.
BLIND
Deaf

We've been through all of this already. Jews, blinded for a time. Yes, they are still under God's protection. Abrahamic Covenant with Israel, still has promises to be filled. Read Romans 11.

 

[randyk]

Actually it was the League of Nations that recognized Israels right to exist, the UN is merely the upholder of that agreement. The UN is utterly corrupt and useless. I agree, it's a miracle. But America has always stood with their ally Israel.

The UN was the organization in place at the time of Israel's creation in 1948. The League of Nations failed to follow through with finding a solution to the problem of Jews and Muslims in Palestine.

 

[pottersclay]

Your comment bears no relation to my comment

What I meant saint is that Israel is Gods real estate given to the jews. He owns the land and the deed.

 

[kaylagrl]

The UN was the organization in place at the time of Israel's creation in 1948. The League of Nations failed to follow through with finding a solution to the problem of Jews and Muslims in Palestine.

But the League of Nations, precursor to the United Nations, officially recognized the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine, and agreed to the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people. This paved the way for a sovereign Jewish nation to be realized in 1948. To this day, no one has found a solution between Jews and Muslims. But Palestinians have been offered land three times and turned it down.

 

[Oseas3]

We've been through all of this already. Jews, blinded for a time. Yes, they are still under God's protection. Abrahamic Covenant with Israel, still has promises to be filled. Read Romans 11.

Romans 11:v.3 to 5

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.



A remnant is saved

Revelation 14:v.1-3

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four living beings, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were REDEEMED from the earth. (earth here is Israel)


In the Elijah's time there were only seven thousand true Israelite (Romans 11:v.3 to 5) and now, in the end of Dispensation of Grace, only 144k will be sealed and saved because believe in JESUS and love Him, in LITERAL fulfillment of Isaiah 1:v.8-9, among others.

Revelation 7:v.1-4

1 And after these things (things written in Rev.6:v.14 to 17) I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel

 

[OldSage]

Yes, I realize that, that is why I say I don't need to use the Bible to prove the land belongs to Israel.

Well I think if it comes down purely to international law... Ho hum.... No further comment required. I am sticking to my Christian mandate