Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Feb 26, 2021
389
59
28
Feb 26, 2021
389
59
28
Israel should be supported politically because they are the only nation in that region that promotes human rights, religious freedom, and a Democratic system of government
Actually..., you would not reach that conclusion if you followed the correct news platform.
  1. If the government of Israel promoted human rights,
    • it would not treat "Palestinians" like trash.
    • it would not allow "rabbis" who promote Kabbalah and treat the gentiles like lesser animals.
  2. If the government of Israel promoted religious freedom,
    • it would not put Christians to jail for proclaiming the name of Jesus Christ.
  3. If the government of Israel promotes a democratic system of government,
    • ...Well, it's not supposed to have a king / prime minister over Israel except God in the first place.
Supporting a nation "politically" also makes no sense at all. Politics has no place in Christianity as it's a work of evil.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
This is the reason why I posted my question.



Do you really think the modern state of Israel has the holy city in it?
No, it's called the "Holy City" because of historical reasons

Jerusalem is spiritually likened to Sodom & Egypt during the tribulation period, and it's no different today

Revelation 11:8KJV

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
Jesus Christ fulfilled the promises and covenant made to Abraham, the Church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed, it's that simple :)

The promises made to Abraham have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ, read it again and again :)

Jesus Christ is the promised seed, and his children are the Church

Galatians 3:16-29KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

(Two Israel's Are Seen Below)

(1) Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed

(2) National Ethnic Israel

The Church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed :)

They which are the children of the flesh (Jews) these are not the children of God

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all (1)Israel, which are of (2)Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
I agree with you,here is the evidence.

仔细理解生理常识,结合神拣选以色列,你会明白神为什么这样安排。
我们是一个整体,缺了任何一部分,都不是正常的生理运行机制。
If you understand the common sense of physiology and God's choice of Israel, you will understand why God arranged this.
We are a whole, without any part, it is not a normal physiological mechanism.


e-2.jpg

e-3.jpg


e-4.jpg e-5.jpg
src=http_%2F%2Fdpic.tiankong.com%2F91%2Fhm%2FQJ6883222996.jpg&refer=http_%2F%2Fdpic.tiankong.jpg
e-1.jpg
John
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have itmore abundantly.


11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
 
Feb 26, 2021
389
59
28
the antichrist will literally sit within a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.
I agree that is biblical amen.
How do you, two, agree that the place the Anti-Christ will sit is a physical singular temple (like the 2nd one)?

They will be "cast out" and they "shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman"
You know, this same people were cast out already back in 70 A.D. as Romans invaded and destroyed this Earthly Jerusalem. The temple, likewise, was already destroyed and rebuilt as Christ was killed and then resurrected.

Something that many don't realize still to this day.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
Actually..., you would not reach that conclusion if you followed the correct news platform.
  1. If the government of Israel promoted human rights,
    • it would not treat "Palestinians" like trash.
    • it would not allow "rabbis" who promote Kabbalah and treat the gentiles like lesser animals.
  2. If the government of Israel promoted religious freedom,
    • it would not put Christians to jail for proclaiming the name of Jesus Christ.
  3. If the government of Israel promotes a democratic system of government,
    • ...Well, it's not supposed to have a king / prime minister over Israel except God in the first place.
Supporting a nation "politically" also makes no sense at all. Politics has no place in Christianity as it's a work of evil.
Your explanation is true, yes the rabbis and followers do follow the (Talmud) that speaks and teaches evil of Goyim/Gentiles, it's ok to steal from and kill gentiles, gentile children are filth etc

Yes many withing Judaism follow the Kabbalah, the Jewish book of the occult, yes Christian's are jailed for preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ

If one was to examine their holy book the (Talmud) they would be shocked at the filth contained in it, this all being kept secret and silent from the masses knowledge
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
Do you really think the modern state of Israel has the holy city in it?
No. Jerusalem at the present time is not the holy city. It may even be resembling Sodom and Egypt at the moment (as described in Revelation). But that is NOT the future of Jerusalem, after it is redeemed and restored, following the Second Coming of Christ. Christ Himself will transform Jerusalem and its inhabitants.

There are numerous passages in Scripture which tell us how glorious Jerusalem on earth will be in the future. It will also be in constant communication with the heavenly city New Jerusalem.
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
Deuteronomy
4 So now, Israel, give heed to the statutes and ordinances that I am teaching you to observe, so that you may live to enter and occupy the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, is giving you. 2 You must neither add anything to what I command you nor take away anything from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord your God with which I am charging you
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
How do you, two, agree that the place the Anti-Christ will sit is a physical singular temple (like the 2nd one)?


You know, this same people were cast out already back in 70 A.D. as Romans invaded and destroyed this Earthly Jerusalem. The temple, likewise, was already destroyed and rebuilt as Christ was killed and then resurrected.

Something that many don't realize still to this day.
I believe scripture strongly suggest a future temple built, and renewed animal sacrifice as Isaiah 66:1-4 explains, a complete abomination to the finished work on Calvary

You will closely note Isaiah 6:4 & 2 Thessalonians 2:11 God sends a (Delusion) this word used only2 times in the KJV, and appears to be the same event, as Thessalonians 2:3-4 clearly show the future Antichrist being revealed in a temple?

Isaiah 66:1-4KJV

1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions,
and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-11KJV
1 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
.There are numerous passages in Scripture which tell us how glorious Jerusalem on earth will be in the future. It will also be in constant communication with the heavenly city New Jerusalem.
False, there is not one scripture in God's Holy words that teach of a Jerusalem in a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as you suggest, let alone having telephone or internet service in communication to a New Jerusalem floating in the heavens, a man made fairy tale, Real Big Smiles, Beam Me Up Scotty :giggle:

I must admit, this fairy tale teaching has the Mormons beat, as they believe New Jerusalem will be in Independence Missouri :giggle:
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
My take on the situation is that both is wrong. It doesn't matter who is right. You can be right but then the way you treat others are wrong. It is not more important to reflect the character of Jesus Christ, then to be right.
You mean reflect the character that Jesus showed the false teachers, in the scribes and Pharisees seen below? :)

Matthew 23:13-39KJV
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
Bottom line - Israel will one day be under the Mercy of God, not the wrath

Zephaniah 3: 11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: (Talmud/rejection of Jesus?) for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain (Talmudic exceptionalism?).
12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord.(Palestinians?)
13 The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.14 Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.15 The Lord hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy (Levitical/Rabbinic lies):

(End of cursed time - Israel now turns to Christ Jesus)

the king of Israel, even the Lord, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.16 In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack.17 The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.18 I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, who are of thee, to whom the reproach of it was a burden.
19 Behold, at that time I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame.20 At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the Lord.
 
Feb 26, 2021
389
59
28
after it is redeemed
Was it not already redeemed when Christ was crucified for the payment?

which tell us how glorious Jerusalem on earth will be in the future. It will also be in constant communication with the heavenly city New Jerusalem.
It seems as if you were ignoring the fact that the new one will descend out of heaven, and not that the old one will be transformed. I don't see any mention of the old Jerusalem transformed.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
Bottom line - Israel will one day be under the Mercy of God, not the wrath

Zephaniah 3: 11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: (Talmud/rejection of Jesus?) for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain (Talmudic exceptionalism?).
12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord.(Palestinians?)
13 The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.14 Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.15 The Lord hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy (Levitical/Rabbinic lies):

(End of cursed time - Israel now turns to Christ Jesus)

the king of Israel, even the Lord, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.16 In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack.17 The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.18 I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, who are of thee, to whom the reproach of it was a burden.
19 Behold, at that time I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame.20 At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the Lord.
Bottom Line, Only The Remnant Elect Jew, Those Whom God Foreknew, Will Be Saved And Added To "Israel The Church" On Earth :)

"Israel Is The Church", Children Of The Promised Seed

All Israel Will Be Saved, When The Last Soul Is Added To "Israel The Church" On Earth

Romans 11:2KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Romans 11:5-7KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Romans 11:28KJV
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

1 Peter 1:2KJV
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
 
Feb 26, 2021
389
59
28
the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
No, it's called the "Holy City" because of historical reasons
It was my initial view as well that "the great city" meant Jerusalem, but... Do you think about the fact that Jesus was not killed actually within the city but outside the city walls in the place called Golgotha (place of the skull). It would have to be a contradiction to its own book for the "great city" to be Jerusalem.

And since it doesn't say "holy" but "great" city, I'm wondering if it's about a prophecy of a future fulfillment in which Christ is crucified afresh.
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
Abrahamic is still in effect for the Jews, God's chosen people. As you say, right now they are blinded for a time. But God is not done with Israel/Jews yet, not by a long shot.
I guess that's right actually. There is the Abrahamic Covenant, and then all the other Covenants are additional clauses to the Abrahamic Covenant. So we are all under the Abrahamic Covenant, pure and simple.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
I don't see any mention of the old Jerusalem transformed.
Because you have already made up your mind that it will not happen. That is called self-delusion. Furthermore, you are unable to distinguish between Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem (two totally different entities).

As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it. (Isa 31:5)

Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken. (Isa 33:20)

Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean. (Isa 52:1)

Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem. The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. (Isa 52:9,10)

I could post many more Scriptures regarding future Jerusalem, but it it high time that you did some serious Bible study for yourself.
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
It was my initial view as well that "the great city" meant Jerusalem, but... Do you think about the fact that Jesus was not killed actually within the city but outside the city walls in the place called Golgotha (place of the skull). It would have to be a contradiction to its own book for the "great city" to be Jerusalem.

And since it doesn't say "holy" but "great" city, I'm wondering if it's about a prophecy of a future fulfillment in which Christ is crucified afresh.
If jerusalem is considered as 7 hills, and Jesus was crucified on the Mt of Olives, then we can say he was crucified in Jerusalem.
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
Ya. Jerusalem is a plural noun in Hebrew, like Elohim I think.

So there are at least 2 Jerusalems. Maybe even 3, as Benjamin and Judah share the city somehow.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
False, there is not one scripture in God's Holy words that teach of a Jerusalem in a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as you suggest, let alone having telephone or internet service in communication to a New Jerusalem floating in the heavens, a man made fairy tale,
Read what I have quoted above and weep for your own ignorance. No one said anything about telephones and internet. That is your own carnal thinking.