Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

[presidente]

Where is the Jew needed to be present to see the sign of wonder that the time has come for the church age and not just teaching of the word in hebrew, that is what the signs and wonders are all about.

Not very clear again. Show scripture that says Jews need to be present. I pointed to scriptures in Acts 13-15 that signs can be for Gentiles also. Why should I believe your theories about the Bible if the Bible does not teach your theories. You have a theory that would render parts of the word of God without effect. Why should I believe teachings of I Corinthians 12 are no longer valid because of some theory you promote?

Even when Paul quotes Isaiah 28 about tongues, he applies it to unbelievers. His application is not limited to Jews. Gentiles can respond to to speaking in tongues without hearing God as well.

 

[notuptome]

It is a faith issue. It is a shame cessationists come up with weak doctrinal excuses not to believe God to give the same sort of gifts He gave in scripture.

It is a faith issue. Faith comes from hearing the word of God. Believe the bible and tongues, prophecy and knowledge change with the completion of the canon of scripture.

The evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign and denies the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

This is so true. Pentecostals are running the evangelism scene. Most of the cessationist churches are dusty and their conversions in the past took place through government means. (All state churches like lutheran, catholics, church of england etc. were like this)

According to pew research Baptist Church account for 14 percent of the protestant population while.pentecostal is near 2 percent.
While right now Pentecostal is the fastest growing denomination world wide. It is morons and jehovah witnesses that are growing the fastest in the US and islam in the world scene. Even in Europe

 

[Lookupnotback]

Not very clear again. Show scripture that says Jews need to be present. I pointed to scriptures in Acts 13-15 that signs can be for Gentiles also. Why should I believe your theories about the Bible if the Bible does not teach your theories. You have a theory that would render parts of the word of God without effect. Why should I believe teachings of I Corinthians 12 are no longer valid because of some theory you promote?

Even when Paul quotes Isaiah 28 about tongues, he applies it to unbelievers. His application is not limited to Jews. Gentiles can respond to to speaking in tongues without hearing God as well.

See this is where you are blinded or choosing to be so to justify your deviant behaviour vs what scripture actually says. The signs were against the jews who had twisted God’s word as you are to suit their own means. So the jess saw the gentiles preaching on God’s word in tongues other than the hebrew and were amazed that the Holy Spirit had come to the pagans as it were and not just the chosen race. You and your ilk always have to try and twist these facts into some great wonder that makes you something more than the next guy and or use it in deceiving the simple of mind into giving you their cash.

 

[ronair]

That's strange. I have never met any Charismatics during my 50 years of associating with them, who have or are chasing emotional highs as you describe. Most, if not all I have met or seen have been ordinary godly people who enjoy going to church to worship God, hear Scriptural-based inspiring messages, and have enjoyable fellowship with fellow believers. Not much different from any non-Charismatic believer.

They appear to me to be people who go to church to have fun and enjoyment, rather than the many who look as if they are going to the dentist when they go into the church and look as though they had been to the dentist when they come out again.

Having fun and enjoying church does not necessarily mean that they are chasing emotional highs. Church for them is not a dry, boring place where liturgies are muttered with the mouth while the mind is thinking of Saturday's football results. Many dead church people yell like Commanche Indians at the football match on Saturday but sit like wooden Indians in church on Sunday.

I think your description of Charismatics is stuff that you've dreamed up out of your head than what the true nature of Charismatic believers really is.

I've seen more dead, black eyes in boring, ritual-based, wooden indian religious people than I have ever seen in a Charismatic church.

"That's strange. I have never met any Charismatics during my 50 years of associating with them, who have or are chasing emotional highs as you describe. "-------Really??? In 50 years of associating with the Charismatic church you have never seen this???? I suggest your understanding of "emotional high" is not aligned to the vast majority of people. If charismatics are not seeking an emotional high then no one is and the term is meaningless.

 

[Lookupnotback]

Not very clear again. Show scripture that says Jews need to be present. I pointed to scriptures in Acts 13-15 that signs can be for Gentiles also. Why should I believe your theories about the Bible if the Bible does not teach your theories. You have a theory that would render parts of the word of God without effect. Why should I believe teachings of I Corinthians 12 are no longer valid because of some theory you promote?

Even when Paul quotes Isaiah 28 about tongues, he applies it to unbelievers. His application is not limited to Jews. Gentiles can respond to to speaking in tongues without hearing God as well.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...92FE6A5731E696B4443692FE&&FORM=VDRVSR&PC=APPL

 

[Lookupnotback]

"That's strange. I have never met any Charismatics during my 50 years of associating with them, who have or are chasing emotional highs as you describe. "-------Really??? In 50 years of associating with the Charismatic church you have never seen this???? I suggest your understanding of "emotional high" is not aligned to the vast majority of people. If charismatics are not seeking an emotional high then no one is and the term is meaningless.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...92FE6A5731E696B4443692FE&&FORM=VDRVSR&PC=APPL

 

[SophieT]

Youre jumping in late to a conversation that has been going on.
I explained to him my experiences, I used to be non-denominational/ Pentecostal and have been to more than just a few churches across several states. He said his church was different and that there are some different than my experience, I asked him to post a link to some of them or even one of them being different to which he said see Paul in acts.
So thanks for jumping in d not flowing a conversation and making assumptions.

LOL. I am well aware of your stance and not just in this particular thread. You know, it's your loss.

I asked him to give am example of one doing different than the mainstream ken copeland type but he refused. So we'll there ya go. If he would simply post a video from his church or a similar one there would be something to go on beside what I have witnessed and experienced and seen.

Is it worthwhile pointing out that your experience is not the gold standard? I have most likely seen more than you have but understand that people are wrong in their behavior but certainly far from all people and all congregations

You are still rude and calling names so whatever. Really, I hardly ever reply to you as this is so so typical of how you handle things.

tootles

 

[SophieT]

I fully believe in the Gifts Of The Holy Spirit For Today, However The Pentecostal Movement Is Way Out In Left Field Concerning Using The Gifts

Rolling On The Floor, Crawling Around Like A Dog, Mass Hysteria In Chaos (Fact) And This Applies To A Large Portion That Are Named (Pentecostals)

I've seen plenty and I am not Pentecostal. Pentecostals do NOT have the market cornered on the gifts..whether in order or out of order.

Frankly, I would not, nor do I, go to a Pentecostal church for the reason they seem to major in tongues with misinterpretation. So now that I have all the Pentecostals angry at me (), my opposition is to those who say the gifts have ceased...or in particular 3. I am sure you know which scripture is referred to when the number 3 comes up.

 

[SophieT]

....but your faith system is not based on accepted christian doctrine but makes it’s own and new rules that can only be seen elsewhere in pagan emotional rituals. How do you possibly justify using that or any name associated with pentecostal emotional mayhem and charismatic chaos.’if you are a stable christian not blown about by these shifting winds of pentecostalism? How can you possibly have anything to do with the group that all falls under pentecostal? They are all based on lies, why would you stand by under the name used by a movement that twists God’s word?

Perhaps you could enlighten us all and tell me which faith system I adhere to?

It seems you respond via the 'assumption' system

 

[SophieT]

....who is worked up? Or maybe me yes, at the blatant lies held onto by pentecostals in search for meaning through emotionalism’s lies about there being any practical use for a christian to use pagan babble and such? The real question is, if ne needs emotionalism's lies? Me questions their being saved in the 1st place and so that angers me too at satan fooling so many in their service to self and thinking disrespecting the Holy Spirit is looked kindly upon by God? Shows a total lack of understanding of what our Creator’s personality and desires for us is/are.

Who is worked up?

You are along with several others here. Faith is not based on emotion. Emotions should follow the facts.

Sorry, you are barking up the wrong tree....er...at the wrong person.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

LOL. I am well aware of your stance and not just in this particular thread. You know, it's your loss.



Is it worthwhile pointing out that your experience is not the gold standard? I have most likely seen more than you have but understand that people are wrong in their behavior but certainly far from all people and all congregations

You are still rude and calling names so whatever. Really, I hardly ever reply to you as this is so so typical of how you handle things.

tootles

Of course not all. All and never are generally not the case however generally, is usually.
Anyway thanks for not responding to me; as you notice I don't bother with you either. For the same reasons.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

. Faith is not based on emotion. Emotions should follow the facts.

on this I do agree with you though.

 

[CS1]

This is a non sequitur. Westboro is clearly an outlier, and examples of the mainstream norm have been provided. Mohler , Young they are along with many other very public ministries do exemplify the mainstream baptist church.
You on the other hand have not provided any examples of the Pentecostal church that are not what the public ministries have exemplified. It's not hard to show us something different than what we have seen and experienced for ourselves. You say there is something different than copeland, roberts, duplantis, I myself have asked you to show us, but you have refused.

I do not have to provide you an example, You and others, have not provided from the word of God where it states the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today. You have not asked me what is different from those above ministries you have named, I would like to see where you have.

What I have said in context to those you listed, I do not follow them. I also said IF you have an issue with them YOU do what the word of God says and address them. Moreover, those listed are rebels who will not follow or come under a denomination. Your bias prevents you from seeing what is true.

AS an example: the SB's Southern Baptist have

1. bylaws
2. regulations
3. Ministerial standards and certification
4. Governing oversight or committee
5. Statement of faith what we Believe
6. process for discipline and removal and restoration

Those above you have listed will not come under such things.

Those of Trinitarian Pentecostal Denominations all have the very same thing. in fact, it is only the Gifts of the Holy Spirit that the SB differences on and the Baptist now accept many of those who are AOG and other pentecostal denominations. I have personally preached and a few of them and we have come together in their church and ours to pray and worship the Lord.

AOG, and Four Square, and others have the same thing. It is not that I have the need to show what you say, you asked of me, it is you are too hateful and many like you to look it up yourself.

The COGIC openly rebuked Carlton Pearson on his Unitarian position on salvation and declared him a heretic by his peers in 2004.
The Assemblies of God removed Jimmy Swaggart after he refused to submit to a two-year pulpit removal.

Many Pentecostal mainline denominations have many point Memo's submitted on the foolishness of those you have listed above, although they may not be mentioned in this sue happy day, the error has been identified and a position has been taken as from the word of God.

I have answered your questions fully as I have done in many other threads when those like you speak about what you have no clue on.

 

[CS1]

It is a faith issue. Faith comes from hearing the word of God. Believe the bible and tongues, prophecy and knowledge change with the completion of the canon of scripture.

The evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign and denies the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You know that statement has nothing to do with Christians who have signs and wonders that follow them confirming the word of God that still God does today.

 

[Lookupnotback]

Who is worked up?

You are along with several others here. Faith is not based on emotion. Emotions should follow the facts.

Sorry, you are barking up the wrong tree....er...at the wrong person.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...form=VDSHOT&shth=OSH.%2F5eYdIdGPg9GuB5lib07VA

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

I do not have to provide you an example, You and others, have not provided from the word of God where it states the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today. You have not asked me what is different from those above ministries you have named, I would like to see where you have.

What I have said in context to those you listed, I do not follow them. I also said IF you have an issue with them YOU do what the word of God says and address them. Moreover, those listed are rebels who will not follow or come under a denomination. Your bias prevents you from seeing what is true.

AS an example: the SB's Southern Baptist have

1. bylaws
2. regulations
3. Ministerial standards and certification
4. Governing oversight or committee
5. Statement of faith what we Believe
6. process for discipline and removal and restoration

Those above you have listed will not come under such things.

Those of Trinitarian Pentecostal Denominations all have the very same thing. in fact, it is only the Gifts of the Holy Spirit that the SB differences on and the Baptist now accept many of those who are AOG and other pentecostal denominations. I have personally preached and a few of them and we have come together in their church and ours to pray and worship the Lord.

AOG, and Four Square, and others have the same thing. It is not that I have the need to show what you say, you asked of me, it is you are too hateful and many like you to look it up yourself.

The COGIC openly rebuked Carlton Pearson on his Unitarian position on salvation and declared him a heretic by his peers in 2004.
The Assemblies of God removed Jimmy Swaggart after he refused to submit to a two-year pulpit removal.

Many Pentecostal mainline denominations have many point Memo's submitted on the foolishness of those you have listed above, although they may not be mentioned in this sue happy day, the error has been identified and a position has been taken as from the word of God.

I have answered your questions fully as I have done in many other threads when those like you speak about what you have no clue on.

I never said the gifts aren't for today. I said pentecostalism has the twisted.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all
the Spiritual gifts are still available today, Evidence #1. Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

question, is God still calling people unto himself today? yes, so the Gifts are in effect today.

Evidence #2. the Gifts of the Holy Ghost, are a "WORK" of God, either in us or for us. example the Preaching of the Gospel, and the teaching of that Gospel, which is the very first Gift on the List in 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:9 "To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"
1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."

well the very first GIFT on the List is the Ministry Gifts. apostolic, prophetic , and the Teaching Gifts, (which include, Pastoral, preaching, and the evangelical Gifts of spreading and teaching the Gospel. Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"
Ephesians 4:12 "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:"
Ephesians 4:13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"

and this "GIFT", which is a work, is the very FIRST "GIFT", "WORK", on the List.

so if the Gifts stopped with the apostles, then it is clear evidence that this is in ERROR, for the Gospel is being preached and taught daily, even as we speak.

so the Promise is unto all to as 1 Corinthians 12:7 states, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."

so I reject the Idea of Cessationist.

PICJAG,
101G.


..

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

GINOLJC, to all
the Spiritual gifts are still available today, Evidence #1. Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

question, is God still calling people unto himself today? yes, so the Gifts are in effect today.

Evidence #2. the Gifts of the Holy Ghost, are a "WORK" of God, either in us or for us. example the Preaching of the Gospel, and the teaching of that Gospel, which is the very first Gift on the List in 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:9 "To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"
1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."

well the very first GIFT on the List is the Ministry Gifts. apostolic, prophetic , and the Teaching Gifts, (which include, Pastoral, preaching, and the evangelical Gifts of spreading and teaching the Gospel. Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"
Ephesians 4:12 "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:"
Ephesians 4:13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"

and this "GIFT", which is a work, is the very FIRST "GIFT", "WORK", on the List.

so if the Gifts stopped with the apostles, then it is clear evidence that this is in ERROR, for the Gospel is being preached and taught daily, even as we speak.

so the Promise is unto all to as 1 Corinthians 12:7 states, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."

so I reject the Idea of Cessationist.

PICJAG,
101G.


..

I agree with this. I think it is the Pentecostal twisting of the gifts into the weird stuff we see from them that has both redefined them and caused others to believe they have ended. Because great mountains of false prophecy that has spewed from the likes of Oral Roberts, and Jessi Duplantis, and Kenneth Copeland, and the nonsense they get up to like laughing and falling on the floor, and phoney garbage that Benny Hinn has been doing bringing shame on the Holy Spirit. From blowing away covid to commanding hurricanes, and the constant money swindling, To the just plain garbage many of is have experienced on our own sojourn through working out our salvation. It has caused a bunch of chaos and condemnation, and people to believe the gifts are gone.
But they aren't, from the pastors who preach expounding upon the word to the street evangelist reaching souls in the world to the mother and father raising and teaching their children applying the wisdom of God to daily life to healing of sickness and injury in accordance with the instructions to James, to missionaries speaking and preaching to people in foreign lands. The gifts operate in the ministry.

 

[CS1]

I never said the gifts aren't for today. I said pentecostalism has the twisted.

and I am addressing you and those who have. And no they have not.