Does anyone understand

1ofthem · Apr 3, 2021

Where is this backed up by scripture? God don't need us...we need him.

He is not absolutely refusing to live without any one of us. If that were the case then he wouldn't.... simple as that .He would just go ahead and save everyone. That would be universalism which is not supported by scripture in the least. Far as I can tell, he gives us a choice whether to turn to him or not.

I think sometimes people forget who God is...He is the Lord almighty. He is not some pitiful lonely being begging us to come to him because he needs us to fill a void in his existence.

tribesman · Apr 3, 2021

1ofthem said:

But He also do not beg to sinners to "come to Him", indeed they cannot do so before they are new creatures in Christ.

And you're wrong about this free choice. Maybe that's as far as you can tell, but it's not in scripture (read in context).

1ofthem · Apr 3, 2021

tribesman said:

Not even going to go in to Calvinism. Scripture is clear all the way through it. So deal with it without trying to change the meaning of words such as all men, the whole world, any, whosever etc. etc.

God set the plan of salvation. He sent his only Son that whosever believes in him shall not perish. Whoever believes, comes to him, and heeds his call will not perish, but anyone that doesn't will perish...Now that is pretty plain and simple.

We all have the opportunity and chance, but he ain't begging anyone, and he don't force anyone either. He is God he made the plan so I suggest if you don't like it then take it to him.

tribesman · Apr 3, 2021

1ofthem said:

Got scripture for that?

You say I should take it to Him, but what you have presented here is your own (or somebody else's) ideas, not from scripture, so I can only take it to you.

I know the truth already, thank you.

Lucy-Pevensie · Apr 3, 2021

1ofthem said:

Without freewill, 6000 years of human history could have been avoided.
"God created the heavens and the earth" Then - ROBOTS!

But his plan is for sons rather than slaves.

Magenta · Apr 3, 2021

Lafftur said:

I do not see that in Scripture. God wants all to be saved and to come to the knowledge
of the truth, but if He needed all to it would be so, and we know it ain't so, so...

Loneliness suggests lack. God is not lacking in anything in terms of need.

1ofthem · Apr 3, 2021

tribesman said:

Yeah, there's plenty of scriptures on it...Open up your eyes and read through the scriptures and you'll see it plainly.

Anyways, you should take this to one of the many Calvinist threads. Sorry but I won't be following, I'm pretty well finished with the topic. This has been discussed to no avail. As far as I am concerned, the whole thing is unfruitful and divisive. Let's not put a stumbling block in others way and try to limit Jesus' atonement. The free gift has come upon all and whosoever believes shall be saved.

But like I said, this is for a Calvinist thread and whoever wants to get mixed up in it...then have at it....I don't want any part of it at the moment, though.

Magenta · Apr 3, 2021

1ofthem said:

So true! The invitation is there for all.

Do all respond positively? We know they do not.

Still we have people pretending no choice exists on our part.

Are we to take it then, that these people believe they had no choice in the matter?

I have seen some say as much.

Others cloud the issue and refuse to answer a simple straightforward question.

John 12:31-32

Magenta · Apr 3, 2021

A choice is put before us to open the door to Him

Isaiah 45:22 + Revelation 3:20

Magenta · Apr 3, 2021

Revelation 22:16-17
I accepted my invitation... finally!

Apparently, some did not, believing they had no choice in the matter

Do they believe salvation was forced upon them against their will???

Pilgrimshope · Apr 3, 2021

oldman said:

As important as the difference in a covenant of life and one of death

“Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God;

lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard entreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,

and to an innumerable company of angels,

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven,

and to God the Judge of all,

and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:12-25, 28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think 25 also fits in being a severe warning and comparison to judgement by Moses word v Christs .

very important business but also a mature subject matter that younger believers may not be able to accept.

Lafftur · Apr 3, 2021

Magenta said:

Hello Magenta,

To some, loneliness might suggest lack but, to God loneliness produces desire to create something new. Look through the eyes of LOVE and find the Heart of God - see how God sees.

God is God Almighty of ALL that is seen and unseen - there is NOTHING that He is not in complete authority over. He has EVERYTHING. However, God is LOVE and the greatest desire of LOVE is to love and be loved. If He has EVERYTHING yet, is not known or loved by His creation, it all means NOTHING to Him.

This is God's dilemma....Love cannot be created. If God creates beings that love Him, it's not love it's manipulation - just robots. Love must have a choice. So God created us with a capacity to love but, we must choose to do so and He had to create evil so we would have a choice. He hates that He created evil but, He had to so we would have a choice.

At the end of time, God is taking ONLY those that love Him and then He is going to destroy all the evil He created. He will have exactly what He wants which is to love and be loved.....

God's desire for YOU and all His creation to know Him and love Him is extremely GREAT! By The Word of God (Jesus Christ) coming to Earth to save us and show us the Love of The Father, He has made Himself known - we need to respond by receiving God's love for us and loving Him back in return.

Those that choose to know God and love Him, will receive the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ and be saved. Those that choose to NOT know God or love Him will perish.

God is going to have a new creation that He can love and be loved back. LOVE will NOT be satisfied until this is accomplished.

Nehemiah6 · Apr 3, 2021

Guojing said:

You should not take verses out of context. The context is the resurrection and ascension of Christ. David has not been resurrected, therefore he has not ascended as Christ did. But David and all the OT saints were TAKEN UP to Heaven from "the lower parts of the earth" (Hades) by Christ after His resurrection, when Christ "led captivity captive". Big Difference.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. (Eph 4:8-10)

Magenta · Apr 3, 2021

Lafftur said:

I just don't see that anywhere in Scripture.

Lafftur said:

I don't see that anywhere in Scripture, either.

Lafftur said:

God did not create evil. He looked upon creation at every stage and proclaimed it "good."

reneweddaybyday · Apr 3, 2021

posthuman said:

Abel's blood cried out to God seeking vengeance. The spilling of Abel's blood resulted in judgment.

Genesis 4:11 tells us that the earth opened her mouth to receive Abel's blood ... according to Numbers 35:33 So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.

Cain defiled the land in the shedding of Abel's blood. As a result, God pronounced judgment against Cain When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth (Gen 4:12).

Cain was a farmer (Gen 4:2) and the earth would no longer yield unto [Cain] her strength (Gen 4:12).

The blood of Messiah does not plead for vengeance. The blood of Messiah sprinkled on the heart of the believer, purifies and cleanses from an evil conscience, bringing us into this kingdom which cannot be moved, where we find grace, and where we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.

Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear

Blackpowderduelist · Apr 3, 2021

Lafftur said:

Hello Magenta,

To some, loneliness might suggest lack but, to God loneliness produces desire to create something new. Look through the eyes of LOVE and find the Heart of God - see how God sees.

God is God Almighty of ALL that is seen and unseen - there is NOTHING that He is not in complete authority over. He has EVERYTHING. However, God is LOVE and the greatest desire of LOVE is to love and be loved. If He has EVERYTHING yet, is not known or loved by His creation, it all means NOTHING to Him.

This is God's dilemma....Love cannot be created. If God creates beings that love Him, it's not love it's manipulation - just robots. Love must have a choice. So God created us with a capacity to love but, we must choose to do so and He had to create evil so we would have a choice. He hates that He created evil but, He had to so we would have a choice.

At the end of time, God is taking ONLY those that love Him and then He is going to destroy all the evil He created. He will have exactly what He wants which is to love and be loved.....

God's desire for YOU and all His creation to know Him and love Him is extremely GREAT! By The Word of God (Jesus Christ) coming to Earth to save us and show us the Love of The Father, He has made Himself known - we need to respond by receiving God's love for us and loving Him back in return.

Those that choose to know God and love Him, will receive the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ and be saved. Those that choose to NOT know God or love Him will perish.

God is going to have a new creation that He can love and be loved back. LOVE will NOT be satisfied until this is accomplished.

Are you on laughing gas?

oldman · Apr 3, 2021

reneweddaybyday said:

The "importance" of the passage is that the verses reveal the contrast between old covenant and new covenant. At the time Hebrews was written, the temple was still standing and there were some who held to the old covenant sacrificial system.

Hebrews 12:18 - 24 shows the contrast between Sinai (old covenant - earthly) and Zion (new covenant - heavenly):

From David Guzik's Commentary at Blue Letter Bible:

· Mount Sinai was marked by fear and terror – Mount Zion is a place of love and forgiveness.

· Mount Sinai is in the desert – Mount Zion is the city of the Living God

· Mount Sinai spoke of earthly things – Mount Zion speaks of heavenly things.

· At Mount Sinai, only Moses was allowed to draw near to God – at Mount Zion, an innumerable company, a general assembly is invited to draw near.

· Mount Sinai was characterized by guilty men in fear – Mount Zion features just men made perfect.

· At Mount Sinai, Moses was the mediator – at Mount Zion, Jesus is the mediator.

· Mount Sinai brings an Old Covenant, which was ratified by the blood of animals – Mount Zion brings a New Covenant, which is ratified by the blood of God’s precious Son.

· Mount Sinai was all about exclusion, keeping people away from the mountain – Mount Zion is all about invitation.

· Mount Sinai is all about Law – Mount Zion is all about grace.

And then once we understand the contrast, we are warned to not refuse the voice of Him Who calls and we are encouraged:

Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear

Spot on. This explaination makes it easier for those younger in Christ to see just how far we can go in this life, in this time, on earth with our praise. We can go in our spirit straight to the throne. While the dead saints can now actually see whom they worship, we in/by faith can join them in spirit. "The Lord inhabits the praises of His people".

There is much more to praise than singing along with a choir. No disrespect intended by that statement.

oldman · Apr 3, 2021

reply to Pilgrimshope

" very important business but also a mature subject matter that younger believers may not be able to accept Very true.

Very true. I hope then those young in the LORD will take time to think on the things posted. If they do not understand please do as Mary did. "She hid these sayings in her heart". Understanding will come.

oldman · Apr 3, 2021

Lafftur said:

Hello again Lafftur,
The word lonely seems to have caused a stir. I want to share a prophesy given to me by a well known man in about 1977. I had skipped church one sunday morn but was hard pressed to go even though I could not be part of the service - pastor met with folks after service as long as anyone needed to talk. I had no car so I hitch hiked some 20 miles to get there. We chatted a while and at the end of our talk he prayed over me a caught a word from the LORD for me. In part the LORD said 'My soul looooongs for fellowship with you..........." God wants us - we need him - not the other way around. Intimate relationships with GOD are just that - intimate and personal. If you feel that GOD gets lonely for your fellowship, your company - fine. Who is there to say that you are wrong. It's part of your relationship with GOD so you and GOD work that out.

oldman · Apr 3, 2021

I should add that the man who gave that word is 1 of 2 men on earth with whom I would trust with my wife, my children, my money and my life.

Does anyone understand

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