on abuse, I don't care who disagree's. discipline is different but kids should not be hit. It doesn't do anything. children are allowed to express themselves it's how they learn. damaging a Child's emotional state while their growing up only make''s them abusive. abuser's disagree.it's why God has kepte from the devil that abusede, because it would be put in a grave if I ever saw it again.
****Justified DIVORCE****
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Would you rather a stranger on the street walk up to you and curse you and call you a bad name, or punch you in the face? 'A curse without cause shall not alight', but a punch in the face does.
Both are terrible things for someone to do, but physical abuse clearly has the potential to be immediately dangerous.
Another issue is what constitutes 'verbal abuse.' Cussing at one's spouse, and that sort of thing is clearly wrong. But what about criticism? What about the husband or wife who says, "You need to lose some weight. Could you do that for me dear?" Is that okay. If that's okay, what about "You are so fat, you disgust me." When confronted about it by a pastor or counselor, he or she says, "I was just being honest. That's really how I feel? Some people would consider that to be abusive. Most people probably would not think the first statement is abuse, but it could wear down a spouse who is reminded over and over again.
If you talk to someone who does not like their husband or wife anymore, is angry, hurt, has been arguing all the time, difficult conversations like that could be reinterpreted as 'abuse.' Then when you have people saying verbal abuse is just as bad, and abuse is grounds for divorce, it's fodder for those looking for an excuse to leave a very salvageable marriage.
I am not saying that verbal abuse is acceptable, but I am pointing out that the definition is quite fuzzy. And Jesus did not say you can divorce your spouse and remarry over it, or even that you may divorce your spouse over it.
Both are terrible things for someone to do, but physical abuse clearly has the potential to be immediately dangerous.
Another issue is what constitutes 'verbal abuse.' Cussing at one's spouse, and that sort of thing is clearly wrong. But what about criticism? What about the husband or wife who says, "You need to lose some weight. Could you do that for me dear?" Is that okay. If that's okay, what about "You are so fat, you disgust me." When confronted about it by a pastor or counselor, he or she says, "I was just being honest. That's really how I feel? Some people would consider that to be abusive. Most people probably would not think the first statement is abuse, but it could wear down a spouse who is reminded over and over again.
If you talk to someone who does not like their husband or wife anymore, is angry, hurt, has been arguing all the time, difficult conversations like that could be reinterpreted as 'abuse.' Then when you have people saying verbal abuse is just as bad, and abuse is grounds for divorce, it's fodder for those looking for an excuse to leave a very salvageable marriage.
I am not saying that verbal abuse is acceptable, but I am pointing out that the definition is quite fuzzy. And Jesus did not say you can divorce your spouse and remarry over it, or even that you may divorce your spouse over it.
Do you think those passages in Proverbs about the rod are inspired?
It is not my area of specialization, but my impression is a lot of the research that presents physical discipline as having a negative effect on children deals with parents who are extreme about it. I came across a paper from Hong Kong researchers that came to different conclusions when they compared more restrained discipline with a more severe approach. (If I remembered the source I would share it.)
It is not my area of specialization, but my impression is a lot of the research that presents physical discipline as having a negative effect on children deals with parents who are extreme about it. I came across a paper from Hong Kong researchers that came to different conclusions when they compared more restrained discipline with a more severe approach. (If I remembered the source I would share it.)
You need to read the Bible so you can see those scriptures showing otherwise.
If you will notice in the Old Testament, a father gave a virgin daughter in marriage. If she fornicated, he still had to give her in marriage for her to be married, and could refuse the brideprice of the man who had fornicated with her (though he was compelled to marry her for taking her virginity if the father-in-law would have her). So there is more to marriage than becoming 'one flesh.' Paul also warns that one can become one in body with a harlot.
Telling a wife she is divorced three times and that constituting a divorce is Islamic teaching. The law of Moses mentions a written certificate. But Christ's comment on that points us back to the original intention of marriage and says, "What God hath joined together, let not man put assunder." The Bible does not endorse the verbal divorce you are talking about.
God, in the book of Malachi, also rebukes men who dealt treacherously with their wives and put them away.
If you will notice in the Old Testament, a father gave a virgin daughter in marriage. If she fornicated, he still had to give her in marriage for her to be married, and could refuse the brideprice of the man who had fornicated with her (though he was compelled to marry her for taking her virginity if the father-in-law would have her). So there is more to marriage than becoming 'one flesh.' Paul also warns that one can become one in body with a harlot.
Telling a wife she is divorced three times and that constituting a divorce is Islamic teaching. The law of Moses mentions a written certificate. But Christ's comment on that points us back to the original intention of marriage and says, "What God hath joined together, let not man put assunder." The Bible does not endorse the verbal divorce you are talking about.
God, in the book of Malachi, also rebukes men who dealt treacherously with their wives and put them away.
Paul's saying that if you have sex with a harlot then you married her.
To prove my point, do you think the woman at the well had 5 public weddings in order to have 5 husbands? More than one marriage would have been impossible to reconcile with her community in her culture and town.
Or did she have 5 non-committal, consequence-free, secret affairs with whoever?
I'm leaning more toward the interpretation that even people who aren't under a covenant with God, such as the woman at the well, can still violate the law of Moses even when it doesn't directly apply to them.
Marriage is "becoming one flesh." which is just a way of saying sex.
To prove my point, do you think the woman at the well had 5 public weddings in order to have 5 husbands? More than one marriage would have been impossible to reconcile with her community in her culture and town.
Or did she have 5 non-committal, consequence-free, secret affairs with whoever?
I'm leaning more toward the interpretation that even people who aren't under a covenant with God, such as the woman at the well, can still violate the law of Moses even when it doesn't directly apply to them.
Marriage is "becoming one flesh." which is just a way of saying sex.
K
Both are abuse and both do horrific damage to the abused. Physical abuse can be seen, mental/verbal abuse cannot be seen. But if you could see it it would look as bad as any physical beating.
I think you, and others know me well enough I avoid being vulgar. Since we are both married let's turn these around. What about a wife criticizing her husband as a horrible lover? What if she says "Dear I'm not being satisfied and I need you to read this book ". Is that abuse? Or "Dear you're such a horrible lover, I need some tools to help me be sexually satisfied" When she says it in front of the pastor she says "Well, that's just how I feel". Is it abuse? I think we know what verbal/ mental abuse is. Anyone that has experienced it, or is close to someone has, knows what it is.
My sister had her clothes thrown out on the front lawn and told by her husband to get the fu%k out of the house. He's told his sons that woman are crazy and that she is crazy. He's beaten holes in the walls, smashed the kids toys, broken phones and computers. Smashed the windshield out of his truck. He has surrounded her, cursing her, telling her she is spoiled and that no one wants her. My sister is scared to open her mouth. His whole family treat her the same way. Her FIL came onto her property and told his son he needed to "handle" his woman. My sister is skin over bones and pretty much starves herself. He's said terrible things to her when they have been intimate. I don't know frankly why she hasn't committed suicide at this point. If you don't consider this abuse, you don't understand what abuse is and need to be silent on the subject.
No the definition is not fuzzy. And no one should stay in an abusive marriage. Advice like that has gotten women murdered. No woman, or man for that matter, should stay in a dangerous and abusive marriage.
I think you, and others know me well enough I avoid being vulgar. Since we are both married let's turn these around. What about a wife criticizing her husband as a horrible lover? What if she says "Dear I'm not being satisfied and I need you to read this book ". Is that abuse? Or "Dear you're such a horrible lover, I need some tools to help me be sexually satisfied" When she says it in front of the pastor she says "Well, that's just how I feel". Is it abuse? I think we know what verbal/ mental abuse is. Anyone that has experienced it, or is close to someone has, knows what it is.
My sister had her clothes thrown out on the front lawn and told by her husband to get the fu%k out of the house. He's told his sons that woman are crazy and that she is crazy. He's beaten holes in the walls, smashed the kids toys, broken phones and computers. Smashed the windshield out of his truck. He has surrounded her, cursing her, telling her she is spoiled and that no one wants her. My sister is scared to open her mouth. His whole family treat her the same way. Her FIL came onto her property and told his son he needed to "handle" his woman. My sister is skin over bones and pretty much starves herself. He's said terrible things to her when they have been intimate. I don't know frankly why she hasn't committed suicide at this point. If you don't consider this abuse, you don't understand what abuse is and need to be silent on the subject.
No the definition is not fuzzy. And no one should stay in an abusive marriage. Advice like that has gotten women murdered. No woman, or man for that matter, should stay in a dangerous and abusive marriage.
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If you had to choose between enduring one and the other, which would you choose? My guess is a physically abusive person might have a greater chance of being verbally abusive than the average person on the street.
I wonder why you threw sex into the mix because wives can complain about their husbands being overweight, too, and the example works when reversed. Your example here omitted expressing disgust with the other partner, here. I wouldn't say those words, in themselves are 'abusive', but in both cases, the one I gave, and the one you gave, if I were asked, I would advise using kinder words. Criticism on these topics can wear someone down, but aren't inherently abusive.
I watched a bit of Reality TV where they married two strangers. One man told his wife when he kissed her, he felt dead inside. A pastor on the show said that was 'abuse' Maybe the man did feel the those things. He did not have to say it. It may have been unkind, but was it 'abusive'? I would not use that word to describe it, and I do not see that as grounds for divorce.
If he is smashing things and throwing her out of the house, there is more than verbal abuse going on. I did not say your in-law, who I have never met or heard, was not abusive. That was not the point of my post. But we can both pray for your sister and her husband. There have been men like this who have repented. I may not 'pray nice' for him. I do not like to hear about a man treating his wife that way.
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You did not answer my questions above about someone saying their spouse is overweight, but said the definition was not fuzzy, then you give a specific example of something most of us would agree is abusive. I do not think you have proven your point about 'abuse' not being fuzzy. Some people are free with the word, and others are saying if you are abused, get a divorce.
I wonder why you threw sex into the mix because wives can complain about their husbands being overweight, too, and the example works when reversed. Your example here omitted expressing disgust with the other partner, here. I wouldn't say those words, in themselves are 'abusive', but in both cases, the one I gave, and the one you gave, if I were asked, I would advise using kinder words. Criticism on these topics can wear someone down, but aren't inherently abusive.
I watched a bit of Reality TV where they married two strangers. One man told his wife when he kissed her, he felt dead inside. A pastor on the show said that was 'abuse' Maybe the man did feel the those things. He did not have to say it. It may have been unkind, but was it 'abusive'? I would not use that word to describe it, and I do not see that as grounds for divorce.
If he is smashing things and throwing her out of the house, there is more than verbal abuse going on. I did not say your in-law, who I have never met or heard, was not abusive. That was not the point of my post. But we can both pray for your sister and her husband. There have been men like this who have repented. I may not 'pray nice' for him. I do not like to hear about a man treating his wife that way.
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You did not answer my questions above about someone saying their spouse is overweight, but said the definition was not fuzzy, then you give a specific example of something most of us would agree is abusive. I do not think you have proven your point about 'abuse' not being fuzzy. Some people are free with the word, and others are saying if you are abused, get a divorce.
T
I think it is fine to ask your spouse to lose weight, but in a gentle way. Some words are offensive (such as fat, obese, ugly, pig, whale, etc.) and thus should not be used. The overweight spouse should also attempt to lose weight. However, spouses should have realistic expectations about weight loss. An older person is not going to look like young model. If the spouse is trying (watching meal potions, exercising, etc.), the other spouse should not keep reminding and reminding. I think the nagging happens when the spouse isn't even trying. Similarly, if one spouse isn't brushing his/her teeth (because he/she is unemployed, stay at home parent, etc., and thus is not out in the public), it is fine to tell that spouse to brush his/her teeth and take a shower. Obviously if the other spouse is not trying, the tone gets harsher and the words get meaner which isn't good. I think if both spouses try and have realistic expectations, there should not be a problem. Hopefully, these topics are only discussed once or twice and the other spouse tries.
Hi Pickles.
Sorry to hear your story.
Hope you're healing comes swiftly.
God is the only one who is able to judge and fortunately, we're all under grace.
Where sin abounds, grace that much more abounds. (whew!)
Not sure about you, but i break rules daily. I am no rebel, just seems that while
the spirit is willing/the flesh is so weak.
I remember Jesus explaining how anyone who even LOOKS at another lustfully,
is guilty of committing adultery in his heart. yikes.
Thank GOD for the precious blood of Jesus!
Blessed is the man whose sins are forgiven.
We'd be doomed if not for HIM!
God is faithful to answer you if you lack wisdom.
And I pray that you both find peace and grace to
forgive each other and walk in love through this
leg of the journey.
Hugs
Sorry to hear your story.
Hope you're healing comes swiftly.
God is the only one who is able to judge and fortunately, we're all under grace.
Where sin abounds, grace that much more abounds. (whew!)
Not sure about you, but i break rules daily. I am no rebel, just seems that while
the spirit is willing/the flesh is so weak.
I remember Jesus explaining how anyone who even LOOKS at another lustfully,
is guilty of committing adultery in his heart. yikes.
Thank GOD for the precious blood of Jesus!
Blessed is the man whose sins are forgiven.
We'd be doomed if not for HIM!
God is faithful to answer you if you lack wisdom.
And I pray that you both find peace and grace to
forgive each other and walk in love through this
leg of the journey.
Hugs
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Definitely, in john 8v4 the woman was caught “in the act” of adultery....
Basically they were caught having sex and one or both of them were married to someone else.
It would have been fornication if they were both single, and they would have been forced to marry according to law, or if the man refused, he had to pay the woman’s father for defiling his daughter. There would have been no requirement to stone them to death.
Also if they (Or one of them) Had been married before and now divorced, the law allowed them to remarry, so living together would not have been classed as the sin of adultery by law. At worst it may have been seen as fornication if they were not recognised as legally married in that culture.
Basically they were caught having sex and one or both of them were married to someone else.
It would have been fornication if they were both single, and they would have been forced to marry according to law, or if the man refused, he had to pay the woman’s father for defiling his daughter. There would have been no requirement to stone them to death.
Also if they (Or one of them) Had been married before and now divorced, the law allowed them to remarry, so living together would not have been classed as the sin of adultery by law. At worst it may have been seen as fornication if they were not recognised as legally married in that culture.
False, (Adultery) is to be married to another person while your spouse lives
(Fornication) is to have sexual relations outside of lawful marriage
If a married or single man has sex outside of lawful marriage, it's (Fornication)
If a married man divorced his lawful wife and married another woman, and they have sex, this is (Adultery) & (Fornication)
The sex act outside of lawful marriage is (Fornication)
(Fornication) is to have sexual relations outside of lawful marriage
If a married or single man has sex outside of lawful marriage, it's (Fornication)
If a married man divorced his lawful wife and married another woman, and they have sex, this is (Adultery) & (Fornication)
The sex act outside of lawful marriage is (Fornication)
B
Mathew 19:9 does not apply here. Jesus is talking to men about divorcing their wives. He does not address the issue of women leaving their husband because of abuse.
According to the OP, the husband here coerced her into divorcing him, (which in affect simply means he left her) and then he married another woman.
1 corinthians 7:15 however does apply, if the unbelieving spouse refuses to stay, let them go you are not bound to them.
It's not hard to understand. That if you are not bound, or enslaved to them. You are free from them.
“You shall not give up to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. He shall dwell with you, in your midst, in the place that he shall choose within one of your towns, wherever it suits him. You shall not wrong him.
Deuteronomy 23:15-16 ESV
This is what you do by forcing a woman to stay with an abusive husband. You return her as a slave to her former master.
I know we are not under the law, but the law teaches is what sin is. Romans 7.
So this woman is free from her bondage to an abusive husband who has abandoned her. And according to Malachi has dealt treacherously with her and according to Timothy is worse than an infidel and has denied the faith. She is free from him and is not in any bondage to him. She may live freely where ever she chooses. She may even remarry.
According to the OP, the husband here coerced her into divorcing him, (which in affect simply means he left her) and then he married another woman.
1 corinthians 7:15 however does apply, if the unbelieving spouse refuses to stay, let them go you are not bound to them.
It's not hard to understand. That if you are not bound, or enslaved to them. You are free from them.
“You shall not give up to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. He shall dwell with you, in your midst, in the place that he shall choose within one of your towns, wherever it suits him. You shall not wrong him.
Deuteronomy 23:15-16 ESV
This is what you do by forcing a woman to stay with an abusive husband. You return her as a slave to her former master.
I know we are not under the law, but the law teaches is what sin is. Romans 7.
So this woman is free from her bondage to an abusive husband who has abandoned her. And according to Malachi has dealt treacherously with her and according to Timothy is worse than an infidel and has denied the faith. She is free from him and is not in any bondage to him. She may live freely where ever she chooses. She may even remarry.
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