Poll: Do "One Taken/Other Left" Verses Refer To Secret Rapture or Second Coming?

[Truth7t7]

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.



The foolish take only their lamps, which have a reservoir of oil but doesnt hold an overly large amount. The wise take extra containers of oil, vessels, so they have a larger supply.


Many believe that the oil is truth, or The Holy Spirit. It doesn't really matter for the purpose of the parable which it represents since all the virgins are intending to meet the bridegroom as verse 1 says, and all have lamps and oil, though some have more oil. However, I believe it represents truth and will allude to that in this work.


So who would have "some" truth and who want to meet Christ but fall short? I would say they are most Christians of today. They have the milk of the word, and they certainly want to go to Christ, but they dont have the whole truth and they believe doctrines like the pre-tribulation rapture.


The wise ones have more of the truth, they carry it on purpose, its more labor but they know its important. These will have enough truth to know about the tribulation and the false Christ and they will stay true to Christ until He returns.



5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.


The darkness at midnight will be the tribulation. The cry being made is by those who are the watchers, who are telling that the true Christ is coming even though the whole world sleeps because of the darkness. The 5 wise virgins are the elect and the ones "calling" that the true Christ is coming are the watchers and the two prophets. When this call is made by them the elect will "wake up" and trim their lamps and use that oil they have. They get all this extra oil before the tribulation, which is now, through the teachings of those God has anointed with truth, that oil. So, even the wise 5 virgins slumber right until Christ was announced!



7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.


The lamps of the foolish are out because they were on all night and they ran out of oil, and they didnt have enough oil to light them up again. At some point in the night the foolish ones were in complete darkness, their "nightlights" went out. The wise had light/truth all night (think of the night as the tribulation). The lamps of the wise did not go out during the early part of the night.


Also, this trimming of lamps has something to do with adjusting the wick. In the days before electricity most people had either candles or oil lamps going through the night. The trimming probably refers to extending the wick so the flame would grow larger and emit more light. Only a modest flame would have been needed while they slept.

G2885
??sµe´?
kosmeo¯
Thayer Definition:
1) to put in order, arrange, make ready, prepare
2) to ornament, adore
3) metaphorically to embellish with honour, gain honour
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G2889
Citing in TDNT: 3:867, 459


9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.


Certainly this is another reference to the tribulation:


Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

"they bought, they sold". If this example was compared to the end times before the destruction came would be like the tribulation period, this buying and selling etc....and the destruction would be Christ's return and the wrath of God 7th trump. Lot would be the elect who are gathered by angels.


10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.


I think the foolish "bought" or bartered their "virginity" for the oil they got. There were no 24 hour stores in this time as there is today. No honest person would be selling after midnight so where they went, who they bought from and what they had to give is seriously questionable. Regardless, the wise ones are TAKEN to the marriage by the bridegroom and the foolish will be LEFT behind.

In my opinion, when it says the 5 foolish go out to buy, they do buy "false oil", false teachings....they take the mark and are therefore allowed to "buy and sell".


The elect in the tribulation won't take the mark and won't be allowed to buy and sell, but if the parable of the ten virgins helps at all then we know that there won't be any need for any wise virgins to buy anything because they prepared ahead of time with extra oil.


11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


One interesting thought is what would have happened had the 5 foolish virgins remained, with unlit lamps, and were there while Christ had returned? It seems a critical element is that they were gone when he arrived. They were late because they hadn't been properly prepared for his return. They were lacking something and realized it too late.


This whole parable applies to His return and symbolically how the world will be divided up, those who are foolish and those who are wise, those with enough oil and those that had some of the oil but ran out of it at the wrong time.


they all were virgins
they all had lamps
they all had some oil for part of the night
They all had lamps that were lit for part of the night
they all waited for the bridegroom
they all slept
they all awoke when the watchman called out
they all trimmed their lamps

the part that is different is that the wise had plenty of oil and the
foolish didnt.

then the differences start:

the wise get ready for the bridegroom
the foolish leave in search for oil

the wise meet the bridegroom
the foolish arent there to meet him

the wise go into the wedding
the foolish do not

the wise are in the wedding
the foolish aren't allowed in

the wise are accepted

Matthew 7:21-23 is exactly the same teaching of the 5 foolish virgins in Matthew 25:11-13 below

Many are (Playing Church) prophecy, cast out devils, many wonderful works in Jesus name?

Those (Playing Church) were never saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit, just as the 55 Foolush Virgins, Its that simple.

End Results The Same:

Matthew 7:23 (I Never Knew You)

Matthew 25:11-13 (I Know You Not)

Matthew 7:21-23KJV
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 25:11-13KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

[[/QUOTE]

yes the ten virgins are all invited to meet the bridegroom they all heard he was coming all wanted desperately to meet him and go into the wedding.

the only difference is one group is prepared when he comes so they are taken in , the other group had the same invite but they weren’t prepared when he actually came .

that was my only point , that all ten heard the call some were ready and they themselves had chose to be prepared for him, others weren’t ready and chose not to bring the oil .

all ten believe the bridegroom is coming but only five are there waiting when he came.

seems like it echoes this type of parable

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Some differences yes but the idea that some are invited but choose not to be ready when they are called they had better things to do than attend his wedding supper , others hear the call and respond with attendance to his supper .

This of course also speaks of Israel’s rejection and the inclusion of all people into the kingdom but the principle of responding to his call is the same

Christ made a call to mankind from God and has offered attendance to eternal life with him , some may say they believe but when it comes to choosing the attendance over the things of their world , the invite doesn’t seem as important as whatever worldly thing they have going on

we truly need to commit our belief to Christ and his teachings if we do that we will know the truth and begin to experience freedom in him

we have to respond to Jesus word that’s our invite to eternal Life he made it really clear and really available for anyone to believe and respond in repentance but he is never going to go against his word for the invite

it’s why we need to accept the invite and conditions he himself put upon salvation rather than looking for random verses to exclude the gospel he preached from salvation we have to attend his way or we will be cast out

“And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

For many are called, but few are chosen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:11-14‬ ‭


We need the righteousness of Christ as a garment and that only comes through believing his word of life

 

[Truth7t7]

[

yes the ten virgins are all invited to meet the bridegroom they all heard he was coming all wanted desperately to meet him and go into the wedding.

the only difference is one group is prepared when he comes so they are taken in , the other group had the same invite but they weren’t prepared when he actually came .

that was my only point , that all ten heard the call some were ready and they themselves had chose to be prepared for him, others weren’t ready and chose not to bring the oil .

all ten believe the bridegroom is coming but only five are there waiting when he came.

seems like it echoes this type of parable

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Some differences yes but the idea that some are invited but choose not to be ready when they are called they had better things to do than attend his wedding supper , others hear the call and respond with attendance to his supper .

This of course also speaks of Israel’s rejection and the inclusion of all people into the kingdom but the principle of responding to his call is the same

Christ made a call to mankind from God and has offered attendance to eternal life with him , some may say they believe but when it comes to choosing the attendance over the things of their world , the invite doesn’t seem as important as whatever worldly thing they have going on

we truly need to commit our belief to Christ and his teachings if we do that we will know the truth and begin to experience freedom in him

we have to respond to Jesus word that’s our invite to eternal Life he made it really clear and really available for anyone to believe and respond in repentance but he is never going to go against his word for the invite

it’s why we need to accept the invite and conditions he himself put upon salvation rather than looking for random verses to exclude the gospel he preached from salvation we have to attend his way or we will be cast out

“And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

For many are called, but few are chosen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:11-14‬ ‭


We need the righteousness of Christ as a garment and that only comes through believing his word of life[/QUOTE]
Matthew 13:1-16KJV
1 The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

 

[Absolutely]

[

yes the ten virgins are all invited to meet the bridegroom they all heard he was coming all wanted desperately to meet him and go into the wedding.

the only difference is one group is prepared when he comes so they are taken in , the other group had the same invite but they weren’t prepared when he actually came .

that was my only point , that all ten heard the call some were ready and they themselves had chose to be prepared for him, others weren’t ready and chose not to bring the oil .

all ten believe the bridegroom is coming but only five are there waiting when he came.

seems like it echoes this type of parable

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Some differences yes but the idea that some are invited but choose not to be ready when they are called they had better things to do than attend his wedding supper , others hear the call and respond with attendance to his supper .

This of course also speaks of Israel’s rejection and the inclusion of all people into the kingdom but the principle of responding to his call is the same

Christ made a call to mankind from God and has offered attendance to eternal life with him , some may say they believe but when it comes to choosing the attendance over the things of their world , the invite doesn’t seem as important as whatever worldly thing they have going on

we truly need to commit our belief to Christ and his teachings if we do that we will know the truth and begin to experience freedom in him

we have to respond to Jesus word that’s our invite to eternal Life he made it really clear and really available for anyone to believe and respond in repentance but he is never going to go against his word for the invite

it’s why we need to accept the invite and conditions he himself put upon salvation rather than looking for random verses to exclude the gospel he preached from salvation we have to attend his way or we will be cast out

“And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

For many are called, but few are chosen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:11-14‬ ‭

We need the righteousness of Christ as a garment and that only comes through believing his word of life

Ok, looks like you are taking an open view.

the bride/groom dynamic is one that needs to not only be brought to the table but kept in its original form in typology.

for example the first group were originally invited but excused themselves. the command to round up others not originally invited fits the gentile bride.

( i think you may agree with that)

 

[Absolutely]

More one liners, no scriptural support, standard response.

100% copied out of the text of Gods word.

stop lying

 

[Absolutely]

We Will Disagree

Once Again (Eternal Security) The 5 Foolish Virgins Were Never Saved And Sealed By The Holy Spirit, With The Lords Words (I Know You Not) "Simple"

If the five below were saved, the Lord Wouldnt Have Said (I Know You Not)

Once A Believer Is Sealed By The Holy Spirit, (Saved) Its Until The Day Of Redemption, Eternal Security.

As the scripture clearly states, the 5 virgins were unsaved, never sealed (I Know You Not)

(The 5 Unsaved Virgins)

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

(Eternal Security)

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

(Sealed Unto The Day Of Redemption, (Eternal Security)

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Again without the entire council of Gods word we will never master any doctrine.

the bible testifies against your theory.:
2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
rev 2.

see that?
GOD WILL REJECT CHURCH MEMBERS.

I know you are trying so hard to force fit your deal
which is ok. slandering me and lying is not ok.

 

[Truth7t7]

Ok, looks like you are taking an open view.

the bride/groom dynamic is one that needs to not only be brought to the table but kept in its original form in typology.

for example the first group were originally invited but excused themselves. the command to round up others not originally invited fits the gentile bride.

( i think you may agree with that)

More one liners, no scripture, the standard.

 

[Truth7t7]

Again without the entire council of Gods word we will never master any doctrine.

the bible testifies against your theory.:
2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
rev 2.

see that?
GOD WILL REJECT CHURCH MEMBERS.

I know you are trying so hard to force fit your deal
which is ok. slandering me and lying is not ok.

Your response doesn't remove the fact, the 5 foolish virgins weren't saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Fact)

Once Again (Eternal Security) The 5 Foolish Virgins Were Never Saved And Sealed By The Holy Spirit, With The Lords Words (I Know You Not) "Simple"

If the five below were saved, the Lord Wouldnt Have Said (I Know You Not)

Once A Believer Is Sealed By The Holy Spirit, (Saved) Its Until The Day Of Redemption, Eternal Security.

As the scripture clearly states, the 5 virgins were unsaved, never sealed (I Know You Not)

(The 5 Unsaved Virgins)

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

(Eternal Security)

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

(Sealed Unto The Day Of Redemption, (Eternal Security)

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[Absolutely]

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.



The foolish take only their lamps, which have a reservoir of oil but doesnt hold an overly large amount. The wise take extra containers of oil, vessels, so they have a larger supply.


Many believe that the oil is truth, or The Holy Spirit. It doesn't really matter for the purpose of the parable which it represents since all the virgins are intending to meet the bridegroom as verse 1 says, and all have lamps and oil, though some have more oil. However, I believe it represents truth and will allude to that in this work.


So who would have "some" truth and who want to meet Christ but fall short? I would say they are most Christians of today. They have the milk of the word, and they certainly want to go to Christ, but they dont have the whole truth and they believe doctrines like the pre-tribulation rapture.


The wise ones have more of the truth, they carry it on purpose, its more labor but they know its important. These will have enough truth to know about the tribulation and the false Christ and they will stay true to Christ until He returns.



5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.


The darkness at midnight will be the tribulation. The cry being made is by those who are the watchers, who are telling that the true Christ is coming even though the whole world sleeps because of the darkness. The 5 wise virgins are the elect and the ones "calling" that the true Christ is coming are the watchers and the two prophets. When this call is made by them the elect will "wake up" and trim their lamps and use that oil they have. They get all this extra oil before the tribulation, which is now, through the teachings of those God has anointed with truth, that oil. So, even the wise 5 virgins slumber right until Christ was announced!



7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.


The lamps of the foolish are out because they were on all night and they ran out of oil, and they didnt have enough oil to light them up again. At some point in the night the foolish ones were in complete darkness, their "nightlights" went out. The wise had light/truth all night (think of the night as the tribulation). The lamps of the wise did not go out during the early part of the night.


Also, this trimming of lamps has something to do with adjusting the wick. In the days before electricity most people had either candles or oil lamps going through the night. The trimming probably refers to extending the wick so the flame would grow larger and emit more light. Only a modest flame would have been needed while they slept.

G2885
??sµe´?
kosmeo¯
Thayer Definition:
1) to put in order, arrange, make ready, prepare
2) to ornament, adore
3) metaphorically to embellish with honour, gain honour
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G2889
Citing in TDNT: 3:867, 459


9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.


Certainly this is another reference to the tribulation:


Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

"they bought, they sold". If this example was compared to the end times before the destruction came would be like the tribulation period, this buying and selling etc....and the destruction would be Christ's return and the wrath of God 7th trump. Lot would be the elect who are gathered by angels.


10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.


I think the foolish "bought" or bartered their "virginity" for the oil they got. There were no 24 hour stores in this time as there is today. No honest person would be selling after midnight so where they went, who they bought from and what they had to give is seriously questionable. Regardless, the wise ones are TAKEN to the marriage by the bridegroom and the foolish will be LEFT behind.

In my opinion, when it says the 5 foolish go out to buy, they do buy "false oil", false teachings....they take the mark and are therefore allowed to "buy and sell".


The elect in the tribulation won't take the mark and won't be allowed to buy and sell, but if the parable of the ten virgins helps at all then we know that there won't be any need for any wise virgins to buy anything because they prepared ahead of time with extra oil.


11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


One interesting thought is what would have happened had the 5 foolish virgins remained, with unlit lamps, and were there while Christ had returned? It seems a critical element is that they were gone when he arrived. They were late because they hadn't been properly prepared for his return. They were lacking something and realized it too late.


This whole parable applies to His return and symbolically how the world will be divided up, those who are foolish and those who are wise, those with enough oil and those that had some of the oil but ran out of it at the wrong time.


they all were virgins
they all had lamps
they all had some oil for part of the night
They all had lamps that were lit for part of the night
they all waited for the bridegroom
they all slept
they all awoke when the watchman called out
they all trimmed their lamps

the part that is different is that the wise had plenty of oil and the
foolish didnt.

then the differences start:

the wise get ready for the bridegroom
the foolish leave in search for oil

the wise meet the bridegroom
the foolish arent there to meet him

the wise go into the wedding
the foolish do not

the wise are in the wedding
the foolish aren't allowed in

the wise are accepted

your explaining is based on the 5 foolish being heathens,correct?

I think the foolish "bought" or bartered their "virginity" for the oil they got. There were no 24 hour stores in this time as there is today. No honest person would be selling after midnight so where they went, who they bought from and what they had to give is seriously questionable. Regardless, the wise ones are TAKEN to the marriage by the bridegroom and the foolish will be LEFT behind.

"buy" is not with money,or selling ones body.

"buy" is how the wise got their oil.(as seen in the upper room, that anointing/power/oil/infilling cost them.)

Then later in acts we see the oil transferred via laying on of hands.

that is the "buy" and the "transfer" (the foolish asking for some of the wise virgins oil)
rev 3
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent

Jesus wasn't suggesting they get an amount of metal.

he was saying they need to get on their faces and get(obtain/"buy" pure ("gold") through the washing of repentance and the fruit of the precious infilling(precious "gold")

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Ok, looks like you are taking an open view.

the bride/groom dynamic is one that needs to not only be brought to the table but kept in its original form in typology.

for example the first group were originally invited but excused themselves. the command to round up others not originally invited fits the gentile bride.

( i think you may agree with that)

yea it’s Jesus explaining th at the kingdom was sent to Israel but they had other more important matters than listening to him and attending his banquet

so he is saying the kingdom would be sent to all people of the earth in order to fulfill the plan of God through christs rejection in Israel , his crucifixion , and his resurrection

because Israel rejected him , Abraham’s promise was brought to pass when the kingdom was sent into all nations for whoever would believe both Jew and gentile the difference is it was no longer exclusive to Israelites the law separated them from gentile nations the gospel then included Gentiles into the kingdom that was formerly not available to them

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the bride are not only Gentiles but any and all who accept the gospel. Jew or gentile to fulfill Abraham’s promise

“And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

osrealitew aren’t excluded any Israelite who believed the gospel is no different from a gentile who believed Christ is the lord of gentile and Jew and found no distinction between the Jews who accused and condemned him to be crucified or the Gentiles who nailed him to the cross both are guilty and both need the same salvation

 

[Absolutely]

yea it’s Jesus explaining th at the kingdom was sent to Israel but they had other more important matters than listening to him and attending his banquet

so he is saying the kingdom would be sent to all people of the earth in order to fulfill the plan of God through christs rejection in Israel , his crucifixion , and his resurrection

because Israel rejected him , Abraham’s promise was brought to pass when the kingdom was sent into all nations for whoever would believe both Jew and gentile the difference is it was no longer exclusive to Israelites the law separated them from gentile nations the gospel then included Gentiles into the kingdom that was formerly not available to them

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the bride are not only Gentiles but any and all who accept the gospel. Jew or gentile to fulfill Abraham’s promise

“And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

osrealitew aren’t excluded any Israelite who believed the gospel is no different from a gentile who believed Christ is the lord of gentile and Jew and found no distinction between the Jews who accused and condemned him to be crucified or the Gentiles who nailed him to the cross both are guilty and both need the same salvation

Yep
many mesianic Jews as well.

but mainly gentile.
Ruth is the gentile bride.

some Jews but not enough to make it anything else.
the bride of christ is considered gentile.

 

[Absolutely]

the bride are not only Gentiles but any and all who accept the gospel. Jew or gentile to fulfill Abraham’s promise

yep

That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

osrealitew aren’t excluded any Israelite who believed the gospel is no different from a gentile who believed Christ is the lord of gentile and Jew and found no distinction between the Jews who accused and condemned him to be crucified or the Gentiles who nailed him to the cross both are guilty and both need the same salvation

yep

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yep
many mesianic Jews as well.

but mainly gentile.
Ruth is the gentile bride.

some Jews but not enough to make it anything else.
the bride of christ is considered gentile.

brother I believe Jews are now considered no different from a gentile we’re all Gentiles to God now until we come to Christ and become the children of the kingdom

indeed this includes the messianic believers who believed in Christ long before he appeared on earth through prophecy which is a witness of him .

I think to my own thinking anyways amen th ate all it is , I think avid created all Mankind and then because we followed sin as a species , he later chose one line of people beginning with Seth .

then the floods came after that and he began again at Noah and his three sons , he set forth a pattern and prophecy of his three sons lines of people

one line would be chosen by God , another line would join with those chosen and one line would always rebel

so you have the choosing of Abraham’s natural line , the inclusion of the Gentiles into that later , and then the non believers of Jew and gentile make up the third group that always rebelled

I believe Jesus parables reach from the beginning to the end and show us a comprehensive understanding of Gods plan for the salvation of men

Abraham’s promise is what the gospel coming to pass is inclusion. Or through flesh and blood but through Christ and faith in him being baptized into his name

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭

that promise to Abraham was two fold one was for his flesh and blood descendants and the other was for the promises God made to him regarding Christ . Both would come together when the gospel was revealed so being born To a Jewish mother no longer has any impact with God it’s a matter of the heart now and what faith resides therin


All Along God was going to include Gentiles because they also needed reconciliation to him as the Jews had been offered , they weren’t chosen from the start but as a result of the worlds sinfulness God chose one line to preserve mankind until the gospel came

 

[Truth7t7]

your explaining is based on the 5 foolish being heathens,correct?




"buy" is not with money,or selling ones body.

"buy" is how the wise got their oil.(as seen in the upper room, that anointing/power/oil/infilling cost them.)

Then later in acts we see the oil transferred via laying on of hands.

that is the "buy" and the "transfer" (the foolish asking for some of the wise virgins oil)
rev 3
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent

Jesus wasn't suggesting they get an amount of metal.

he was saying they need to get on their faces and get(obtain/"buy" pure ("gold") through the washing of repentance and the fruit of the precious infilling(precious "gold")

Please post Book, Chapter, And Verse, to identify scripture posted, common courtesy, thanks.

 

[Absolutely]

brother I believe Jews are now considered no different from a gentile we’re all Gentiles to God now until we come to Christ and become the children of the kingdom

indeed this includes the messianic believers who believed in Christ long before he appeared on earth through prophecy which is a witness of him .

I think to my own thinking anyways amen th ate all it is , I think avid created all Mankind and then because we followed sin as a species , he later chose one line of people beginning with Seth .

then the floods came after that and he began again at Noah and his three sons , he set forth a pattern and prophecy of his three sons lines of people

one line would be chosen by God , another line would join with those chosen and one line would always rebel

so you have the choosing of Abraham’s natural line , the inclusion of the Gentiles into that later , and then the non believers of Jew and gentile make up the third group that always rebelled

I believe Jesus parables reach from the beginning to the end and show us a comprehensive understanding of Gods plan for the salvation of men

Abraham’s promise is what the gospel coming to pass is inclusion. Or through flesh and blood but through Christ and faith in him being baptized into his name

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭

that promise to Abraham was two fold one was for his flesh and blood descendants and the other was for the promises God made to him regarding Christ . Both would come together when the gospel was revealed so being born To a Jewish mother no longer has any impact with God it’s a matter of the heart now and what faith resides therin


All Along God was going to include Gentiles because they also needed reconciliation to him as the Jews had been offered , they weren’t chosen from the start but as a result of the worlds sinfulness God chose one line to preserve mankind until the gospel came

Jesus said " Jerusalem will be trodden down by the gentiles till the time of the gentiles is complete."

Romans also makes the Jewish covenant people distinction.

Says they were cut off but will be grafted back in.

Solid words of the bible

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Ok, looks like you are taking an open view.

the bride/groom dynamic is one that needs to not only be brought to the table but kept in its original form in typology.

for example the first group were originally invited but excused themselves. the command to round up others not originally invited fits the gentile bride.

( i think you may agree with that)

yea it’s Jesus explaining th at the kingdom was sent to Israel but they had other more important matters than listening to him and attending his banquet

so he is saying the kingdom would be sent to all people of the earth in order to fulfill the plan of God through christs rejection in Israel , his crucifixion , and his resurrection

because Israel rejected him , Abraham’s promise was brought to pass when the kingdom was sent into all nations for whoever would believe both Jew and gentile the difference is it was no longer exclusive to Israelites the law separated them from gentile nations the gospel then included Gentiles into the kingdom that was formerly not available to them

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the bride are not only Gentiles but any and all who accept the gospel. Jew or gentile to fulfill Abraham’s promise

Yep
many mesianic Jews as well.

but mainly gentile.
Ruth is the gentile bride.

some Jews but not enough to make it anything else.
the bride of christ is considered gentile.

Please post Book, Chapter, And Verse, to identify scripture posted, common courtesy, thanks.

Jesus said " Jerusalem will be trodden down by the gentiles till the time of the gentiles is complete."

Romans also makes the Jewish covenant people distinction.

Says they were cut off but will be grafted back in.

Solid words of the bible

Brother every member of the original church was a Jew including Paul who was a Roman jew. If they were cut off as a people how is it that they were all Israelites ?

thier covenant was cut off the one that excluded Gentiles was cut off what Paul is saying about grafting in is a warning not a prophecy

So does he actually say israel will be grafted in or is he warning the church and using them as an example ?

“Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith.

Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:20-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s a warning for the church not to be high minded and think we’re special because we’re included using Israel’s destruction and cutting off of their covenant as example for Christians to not think like they did because just as God cut off thier covenant and allowed Gentiles into the kingdom he can cut those off who persist in disbelief and sin

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus said " Jerusalem will be trodden down by the gentiles till the time of the gentiles is complete."

Romans also makes the Jewish covenant people distinction.

Says they were cut off but will be grafted back in.

Solid words of the bible

More one liners, no scriptural support for your claims, a standard.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

More one liners, no scriptural support for your claims, a standard.

he is actually quoting verses that exist I recognize each one , I think what happens is we try to understand each verse to carry its own message but chapters and paragraphs hold all the context

 

[Truth7t7]

he is actually quoting verses that exist I recognize each one , I think what happens is we try to understand each verse to carry its own message but chapters and paragraphs hold all the context

He isnt quoting bible verses, he is giving his opinion on biblical subjects, One liners without scriptural support

Quote Absolutely Post #214 Below:

Jesus said " Jerusalem will be trodden down by the gentiles till the time of the gentiles is complete."

Romans also makes the Jewish covenant people distinction.

Says they were cut off but will be grafted back in.

Solid words of the bible

 

[Pilgrimshope]

He isnt quoting bible verses, he is giving his opinion on biblical subjects, One liners without scriptural support

Quote Absolutely Post #214 Below:

Jesus said " Jerusalem will be trodden down by the gentiles till the time of the gentiles is complete."

Romans also makes the Jewish covenant people distinction.

Says they were cut off but will be grafted back in.

Solid words of the bible

yes he is actually referring to verses here they are

Jerusalem will be trodden down by the gentiles till the time of the gentiles is complete."

“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Says they were cut off but will be grafted back in.

“And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:23, 25-26‬ ‭

he’s quoting from these verses . What I was saying was in my opinion , only my opinion , he is missing the context of the chapter around those verses .

so yes indeed he was quoting verses that are in the Bible , it’s just that each verse doesn’t carry a seperate message we need to hear what’s actually being said so we need to take the chapters and paragraphs and let the context and subject matter sink in to what’s being said

he was actually quoting verses I just feel he missed some context , but that’s only my own thought he could be right , just not how I myself looked at it