Poll: Do "One Taken/Other Left" Verses Refer To Secret Rapture or Second Coming?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Do "one taken/other left" verses apply to the Secret Rapture or the Second Coming?


  • Total voters
    19
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
No, Christ didn't take those people there. Christ takes the raptured saints there as the army that follows Christ and they watch him slay the Beast's army.

You need to study deeper into the Greek words used for the one taken and one left since you have them backwards. I mean it's pretty obvious even in the English with the raptured saints being literally TAKEN up to the clouds before anyone is LEFT on Earth for punishment and death. No surprise that matches the story of Lot where an angel took Lot and his family away from the cities to a place of safety and all those LEFT back in those cities died.

taken
3880

3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaph.
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
(used of disciples)

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"

That's not the one who dies obviously.
I think Paul means to say that Christ comes to collect the dead and living saints in the clouds while the rest of the wicked fleeing from Him are destroyed "by the brightness of His coming" and drop dead all over the world where they are found --- and is why Jeremiah 25 says "and the slain of the Lord shall be in that day (the day He comes with fire and vengeance) from one end of the Earth even to the other end of the Earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried: they shall be dung on the ground".
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,293
6,667
113
So, how does that change the fact that Jesus said the "taken" ones would be found where the buzzards are gathered?
well, you seem to have a unbiblical idea that you don't sin.

so, maybe you need to get some ( or a lot) of your ideas in line with Scripture.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
well, you seem to have a unbiblical idea that you don't sin.
.
Whoa...that is most certainly not the case. I sometimes fall like anyone, but as for deliberate, known sin, I know there's no excuse for it, especially when victory is always but a prayer away :)
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
So, how does that change the fact that Jesus said the "taken" ones would be found where the buzzards are gathered?
Jesus Did not answer the question.

He basically was saying " where there is smoke, there is fire"

That saying has zero to do with smoke or fire.

""Where bodies are ...you find buzzards"

....has zero to do with buzzards or bodies.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
More one liners without scriptural support, a standard :)

5 virgins were saved, 5 virgins were unsaved, it's that simple

Virginity has absolutely nothing to do with accepting Jesus Christ as savior and his atonement on Calvary.

As the scripture clearly states, the 5 virgins were unsaved (I Know You Not)

(The 5 Unsaved Virgins)

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Unpack the parable.

I will wait.

Show me the correct interpretation


You can't

Your ONLY POSSIBLE HOPE is to one line it to death.

You could never show me who the virgins are or the groom.
No posrib rapturist except bluto has ever unpacked it.

None of you can.

It in no way fits your belief.

Your starting place is " I know you not"

That is what you were told, and you never ventured past it.
You parked there.

Never mind that Mary " knew no man"

Psssst...it is saying she was a virgin...not that she lived in a basement.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
More one liners without scriptural support, a standard :)

5 virgins were saved, 5 virgins were unsaved, it's that simple

Virginity has absolutely nothing to do with accepting Jesus Christ as savior and his atonement on Calvary.

As the scripture clearly states, the 5 virgins were unsaved (I Know You Not)

(The 5 Unsaved Virgins)

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Definately not heathens .
There would not be just 5 if that was normal heathen behavior.

Heathens knocking on Jesus door that have Oil ( Holy Spirit) ??, light( Gods word), lamps ( meaning human vessel) , and watching for Jesus.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Every church has those believers that are saved but carnal and not committed.

Half the church gets left behind at the rapture.

Vividly illustrated in the 10 virgin parable
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
Jesus Did not answer the question.

He basically was saying " where there is smoke, there is fire"

That saying has zero to do with smoke or fire.

""Where bodies are ...you find buzzards"

....has zero to do with buzzards or bodies.
More one liners, no scriptural support, a standard.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Definately not heathens .
There would not be just 5 if that was normal heathen behavior.

Heathens knocking on Jesus door that have Oil ( Holy Spirit) ??, light( Gods word), lamps ( meaning human vessel) , and watching for Jesus.
Once again (Virginity Has Nothing To Do With Salvation), there are Hindu Virgins, Muslim Virgins, Buddhist Virgins, etc, all of non Christian heathen beliefs.

Virginity has absolutely nothing to do with accepting Jesus Christ as savior and his atonement on Calvary.

As the scripture clearly states, the 5 virgins were unsaved (I Know You Not)

(The 5 Unsaved Virgins)


Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,947
5,648
113
Maybe I just can't see it where you actually got honest and read " before the flood"

Jesus CHANGES THE SETTING AND TIME.
NOW HE IS ON THE RAPTURE.

You omit that over and over.
You cleverly omit the rapture.

Re read it honestly.
BEFORE THE FLOOD
READ IT.
read it again

It says WHEN Noah went into the ark.
It is the SETTING AND TIME Jesus is now using.
Lot is a prejudgement deliverence as is Noah.

You can not possibly change that.

To top it off ,the one taken/ left is in that "BEFORE THE FLOOD" DYNAMIC.
Then.... " watch and be ready"

But nah....i already told all of you that.
You are NOT going there or even look at it.
this makes no sense to me so I don’t know how to respond
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,947
5,648
113
Once again (Virginity Has Nothing To Do With Salvation), there are Hindu Virgins, Muslim Virgins, Buddhist Virgins, etc, all of non Christian heathen beliefs.

Virginity has absolutely nothing to do with accepting Jesus Christ as savior and his atonement on Calvary.

As the scripture clearly states, the 5 virgins were unsaved (I Know You Not)

(The 5 Unsaved Virgins)

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
It’s about ten believers , five virgins were prepared because they were looking forward so they used their oil sparingly so they would have a lamp when the beodegroom returned

and five weren’t prepared they knew he was coming but didn’t prepare to
Meet him
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
It’s about ten believers , five virgins were prepared because they were looking forward so they used their oil sparingly so they would have a lamp when the beodegroom returned

and five weren’t prepared they knew he was coming but didn’t prepare to
Meet him
I Strongly Disagree

If the five below were saved, the Lord Wouldnt Have Said (I Know You Not)

Once A Believer Is Sealed By The Holy Spirit, (Saved) Its Until The Day Of Redemption, Eternal Security.

As the scripture clearly states, the 5 virgins were unsaved, never sealed (I Know You Not)

(The 5 Unsaved Virgins)

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,947
5,648
113
I Strongly Disagree

If the five below were saved, the Lord Wouldnt Have Said (I Know You Not)

Once A Believer Is Sealed By The Holy Spirit, (Saved) Its Until The Day Of Redemption, Eternal Security.

As the scripture clearly states, the 5 virgins were unsaved, never sealed (I Know You Not)

(The 5 Unsaved Virgins)

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
“Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

And five of them were wise,

and five were foolish.

They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s sort of just what it is right ? Ten virgins all know the bridegroom is coming so they all take lamps five foolish don’t bring oil and five wise do.

“While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:5-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because the bridegroom is taking awhile they all fell asleep then he came in the night and five had oil for their lamps and five didn’t

again all Of them had heard he was coming and expected him but 5 were ready when he came and five were not ready

Here’s where it comes together

“And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:10-13‬ ‭

That last statement tells you what he’s teaching in that parable it’s about believers getting ready it’s no different really from this parable

Consider this one also

“And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:42-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the believer can either be the first guy or second . It’s about believing the truth of the gospel. That’s what gets us prepared to face the lord


it’s about bringing believers out of complacency and putting it in thier faith to get ready because today or tomorrow could be the day so we are to remain vigilant there are a few other parables and teachings in the epistles to show the same thing

But brother I’m okay with you disagreeing no offense or anything taken I don’t get offended if people don’t agree with my thoughts I hope you don’t take offense either

God bless
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
“Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

And five of them were wise,

and five were foolish.

They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s sort of just what it is right ? Ten virgins all know the bridegroom is coming so they all take lamps five foolish don’t bring oil and five wise do.

“While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:5-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because the bridegroom is taking awhile they all fell asleep then he came in the night and five had oil for their lamps and five didn’t

again all Of them had heard he was coming and expected him but 5 were ready when he came and five were not ready

Here’s where it comes together

“And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:10-13‬ ‭

That last statement tells you what he’s teaching in that parable it’s about believers getting ready it’s no different really from this parable

Consider this one also

“And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:42-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the believer can either be the first guy or second . It’s about believing the truth of the gospel. That’s what gets us prepared to face the lord


it’s about bringing believers out of complacency and putting it in thier faith to get ready because today or tomorrow could be the day so we are to remain vigilant there are a few other parables and teachings in the epistles to show the same thing

But brother I’m okay with you disagreeing no offense or anything taken I don’t get offended if people don’t agree with my thoughts I hope you don’t take offense either

God bless
No offence whatsoever, the five virgins without oil were (Unsaved) and they were never (Sealed) by the Holy Spirit, Simple.

If the five below were saved, the Lord Wouldnt Have Said (I Know You Not)

Once A Believer Is Sealed By The Holy Spirit, (Saved) Its Until The Day Of Redemption, Eternal Security.

As the scripture clearly states, the 5 virgins were unsaved, never sealed (I Know You Not)

(The 5 Unsaved Virgins)

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,947
5,648
113
No offence whatsoever, the five virgins without oil were (Unsaved) and they were never (Sealed) by the Holy Spirit, Simple.

If the five below were saved, the Lord Wouldnt Have Said (I Know You Not)

Once A Believer Is Sealed By The Holy Spirit, (Saved) Its Until The Day Of Redemption, Eternal Security.

As the scripture clearly states, the 5 virgins were unsaved, never sealed (I Know You Not)

(The 5 Unsaved Virgins)

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
why is it that five were saved and five weren’t ?

because they all had the invite they all had their lamps , what was the difference on the two groups ?

“Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:1-4‬ ‭

do you see what I’m saying ? The only difference is the ones who brought oil were ready when he came the ones who had brought no oil are left out

We are saved because we believe the gospel and respond if we don’t get ready. We don’t actually have what we think

the five who were left out was because they weren’t ready like he warned them to be it’s about moving our thinking from the deception of we’re already saved can’t ever lose salvation ect that’s not the truth

if we receive the Holy Spirit that doesn’t guarantee salvation if we don’t repent and get right

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;

seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

receiving the Holy Ghost doesn’t guarantee anything we have to get ready which means we have to repent and come into obedience that’s what that parable is about getting ready because it’s urgent and every day could be the last

judgement always has the same image

It’s truly about this notice that they are claiming to have done things in his name and call him lord but notice the distinction he makes again it’s about how word and who accepts it

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man,

which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:22-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again the wise man and the foolish man the wise hears and keeps the gospel teachings the others don’t. The five wise virgins brought their oil , the foolish did not . The faithful servant obeyed and when the lord took longer than expected he didn’t begin to misbehave like the foolish servant

belief is enough but we have to believe the gospel meaning his word in order to get to repentance

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The idea is to take repentance very seriously because that’s a very serious matter we need to move into the truth and be set free
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
why is it that five were saved and five weren’t ?

because they all had the invite they all had their lamps , what was the difference on the two groups ?

“Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:1-4‬ ‭

do you see what I’m saying ? The only difference is the ones who brought oil were ready when he came the ones who had brought no oil are left out

We are saved because we believe the gospel and respond if we don’t get ready. We don’t actually have what we think

the five who were left out was because they weren’t ready like he warned them to be it’s about moving our thinking from the deception of we’re already saved can’t ever lose salvation ect that’s not the truth

if we receive the Holy Spirit that doesn’t guarantee salvation if we don’t repent and get right

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;

seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

receiving the Holy Ghost doesn’t guarantee anything we have to get ready which means we have to repent and come into obedience that’s what that parable is about getting ready because it’s urgent and every day could be the last

judgement always has the same image

It’s truly about this notice that they are claiming to have done things in his name and call him lord but notice the distinction he makes again it’s about how word and who accepts it

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man,

which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:22-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again the wise man and the foolish man the wise hears and keeps the gospel teachings the others don’t. The five wise virgins brought their oil , the foolish did not . The faithful servant obeyed and when the lord took longer than expected he didn’t begin to misbehave like the foolish servant

belief is enough but we have to believe the gospel meaning his word in order to get to repentance

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The idea is to take repentance very seriously because that’s a very serious matter we need to move into the truth and be set free
We Will Disagree :)

Once Again (Eternal Security) The 5 Foolish Virgins Were Never Saved And Sealed By The Holy Spirit, With The Lords Words (I Know You Not) "Simple"

If the five below were saved, the Lord Wouldnt Have Said (I Know You Not)

Once A Believer Is Sealed By The Holy Spirit, (Saved) Its Until The Day Of Redemption, Eternal Security.

As the scripture clearly states, the 5 virgins were unsaved, never sealed (I Know You Not)

(The 5 Unsaved Virgins)

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

(Eternal Security)

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

(Sealed Unto The Day Of Redemption, (Eternal Security)

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,006
1,265
113
why is it that five were saved and five weren’t ?

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.



The foolish take only their lamps, which have a reservoir of oil but doesnt hold an overly large amount. The wise take extra containers of oil, vessels, so they have a larger supply.


Many believe that the oil is truth, or The Holy Spirit. It doesn't really matter for the purpose of the parable which it represents since all the virgins are intending to meet the bridegroom as verse 1 says, and all have lamps and oil, though some have more oil. However, I believe it represents truth and will allude to that in this work.


So who would have "some" truth and who want to meet Christ but fall short? I would say they are most Christians of today. They have the milk of the word, and they certainly want to go to Christ, but they dont have the whole truth and they believe doctrines like the pre-tribulation rapture.


The wise ones have more of the truth, they carry it on purpose, its more labor but they know its important. These will have enough truth to know about the tribulation and the false Christ and they will stay true to Christ until He returns.



5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.


The darkness at midnight will be the tribulation. The cry being made is by those who are the watchers, who are telling that the true Christ is coming even though the whole world sleeps because of the darkness. The 5 wise virgins are the elect and the ones "calling" that the true Christ is coming are the watchers and the two prophets. When this call is made by them the elect will "wake up" and trim their lamps and use that oil they have. They get all this extra oil before the tribulation, which is now, through the teachings of those God has anointed with truth, that oil. So, even the wise 5 virgins slumber right until Christ was announced!



7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.


The lamps of the foolish are out because they were on all night and they ran out of oil, and they didnt have enough oil to light them up again. At some point in the night the foolish ones were in complete darkness, their "nightlights" went out. The wise had light/truth all night (think of the night as the tribulation). The lamps of the wise did not go out during the early part of the night.


Also, this trimming of lamps has something to do with adjusting the wick. In the days before electricity most people had either candles or oil lamps going through the night. The trimming probably refers to extending the wick so the flame would grow larger and emit more light. Only a modest flame would have been needed while they slept.

G2885
??sµe´?
kosmeo¯
Thayer Definition:
1) to put in order, arrange, make ready, prepare
2) to ornament, adore
3) metaphorically to embellish with honour, gain honour
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G2889
Citing in TDNT: 3:867, 459


9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.


Certainly this is another reference to the tribulation:


Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

"they bought, they sold". If this example was compared to the end times before the destruction came would be like the tribulation period, this buying and selling etc....and the destruction would be Christ's return and the wrath of God 7th trump. Lot would be the elect who are gathered by angels.


10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.


I think the foolish "bought" or bartered their "virginity" for the oil they got. There were no 24 hour stores in this time as there is today. No honest person would be selling after midnight so where they went, who they bought from and what they had to give is seriously questionable. Regardless, the wise ones are TAKEN to the marriage by the bridegroom and the foolish will be LEFT behind.

In my opinion, when it says the 5 foolish go out to buy, they do buy "false oil", false teachings....they take the mark and are therefore allowed to "buy and sell".


The elect in the tribulation won't take the mark and won't be allowed to buy and sell, but if the parable of the ten virgins helps at all then we know that there won't be any need for any wise virgins to buy anything because they prepared ahead of time with extra oil.


11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


One interesting thought is what would have happened had the 5 foolish virgins remained, with unlit lamps, and were there while Christ had returned? It seems a critical element is that they were gone when he arrived. They were late because they hadn't been properly prepared for his return. They were lacking something and realized it too late.


This whole parable applies to His return and symbolically how the world will be divided up, those who are foolish and those who are wise, those with enough oil and those that had some of the oil but ran out of it at the wrong time.


they all were virgins
they all had lamps
they all had some oil for part of the night
They all had lamps that were lit for part of the night
they all waited for the bridegroom
they all slept
they all awoke when the watchman called out
they all trimmed their lamps

the part that is different is that the wise had plenty of oil and the
foolish didnt.

then the differences start:

the wise get ready for the bridegroom
the foolish leave in search for oil

the wise meet the bridegroom
the foolish arent there to meet him

the wise go into the wedding
the foolish do not

the wise are in the wedding
the foolish aren't allowed in

the wise are accepted
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
“Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

And five of them were wise,

and five were foolish.

They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s sort of just what it is right ? Ten virgins all know the bridegroom is coming so they all take lamps five foolish don’t bring oil and five wise do.

“While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:5-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because the bridegroom is taking awhile they all fell asleep then he came in the night and five had oil for their lamps and five didn’t

again all Of them had heard he was coming and expected him but 5 were ready when he came and five were not ready

Here’s where it comes together

“And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:10-13‬ ‭

That last statement tells you what he’s teaching in that parable it’s about believers getting ready it’s no different really from this parable

Consider this one also

“And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:42-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the believer can either be the first guy or second . It’s about believing the truth of the gospel. That’s what gets us prepared to face the lord


it’s about bringing believers out of complacency and putting it in thier faith to get ready because today or tomorrow could be the day so we are to remain vigilant there are a few other parables and teachings in the epistles to show the same thing

But brother I’m okay with you disagreeing no offense or anything taken I don’t get offended if people don’t agree with my thoughts I hope you don’t take offense either

God bless
"servant"
"with the unbelievers."
"portion"

Believers cast in with unbelievers

"portion" = pay...you reap what you sow.

exact model of pretrib rapture

the foolish carnal virgins stay and deny the mark and are martyred

they are the billions in heaven declared as the innumerable number,

their dirty robes washed in the blood. (in the first part of the gt)
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
"servant"
"with the unbelievers."
"portion"

Believers cast in with unbelievers

"portion" = pay...you reap what you sow.

exact model of pretrib rapture

the foolish carnal virgins stay and deny the mark and are martyred

they are the billions in heaven declared as the innumerable number,

their dirty robes washed in the blood. (in the first part of the gt)
More one liners, no scriptural support, standard response.