Are Christians more accepting of charlatans then we should be?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,385
5,724
113
I am content to know Him and fellowship with Him. Nevertheless Faith believes God's word and sees 3000 saved in one day in the Bible (megachurch) and goes forth in the power of the Holy Ghost and has no problem expecting similar results.

Those who complain about megachurches and mighty moves of God can huddle together in their living rooms with their miserable little opinions and talk about all those false Christians out there, and repeat their SAD stories about how they got offended at the megachurch, as for me I will go with the Holy Spirit into all the world and watch Him turn it upside down again in these last days. I will believe God for an unlimited harvest of souls that one church will not be large enough for them all to meet in at one time. I think God loves it when He can find people of such faith. He is looking for them.
I prefer small house gatherings and small congregations myself. We certainly aren't miserable. That's just personal preference though.
I believe God works through all assembly sizes. We sometimes attend a large church to join other believers in worship & prayer.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,003
4,315
113
People need to get back to Church and give up the fear.
 

GiveThanks

God Will Make A Way
Dec 6, 2020
429
347
63
Yes many are tolerant of them. But many of these church leaders were dealt a big blow with their failed election prophecies. And due to the pandemic people have less to give. So thats another blow for them right there.
 
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
43
Yes many are tolerant of them. But many of these church leaders were dealt a big blow with their failed election prophecies. And due to the pandemic people have less to give. So thats another blow for them right there.


It's still all part of God's plan.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
Yes many are tolerant of them. But many of these church leaders were dealt a big blow with their failed election prophecies. And due to the pandemic people have less to give. So thats another blow for them right there.
You're correct. I don't know how big, but many have taken a hit.
Those false election prophecies are just off the chain. All of those guys should close up shop, and go away into obscurity.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
You're correct. I don't know how big, but many have taken a hit.
Those false election prophecies are just off the chain. All of those guys should close up shop, and go away into obscurity.
They were already in obscurity. Their followers give them infinity do overs so it never goes away. But the discerning were not listening to them anyway.
 

GiveThanks

God Will Make A Way
Dec 6, 2020
429
347
63
But where can one find a good church? All of them have faults.

If you paid attention to everything that goes on in a church, you may just decide to avoide going.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,885
5,630
113
Hello everybody,

I hope you are all well.
I have been lurking on this forum for some time and decided to join - thanks to the administrators for approving my profile very quickly.

The thing I'd like to get people's views on is whether we as a broad church are more accepting of charlatans and narcissists than we should be.

I had a bad experience at a so called church (Hillsong) about 2 years ago and haven't returned since.
I left because I didn't like how people were manipulated into tithing (not a requirement for modern day Christians) and side-lined if they didn't give in to the manipulation.
I gave to the Church myself, but eventually realised I was doing so under compulsion which is when my eyes were opened to the manipulation.

I also didn't like how closed the 'books' (financial records) were.
The pastor always said the the 'books' were open and free for all to examine, but when a couple of people from the church asked to look at the 'books', they were simply forwarded to the statutory accounts on a government website.
The statutory accounts provide a summary, not a full breakdown.

The pastor and his wife were also living the life of Riley: new car paid for by church, utility bills paid for by church, travel expenses paid for by church, near £40k a year wage (which doesn't include his wife's wage!).
I even witnessed the pastor say during a sermon that he is "God's gift to the church"! Massive ego.

I came to the conclusion that the church was being run like a business.
I did some research on Hillsong and realised that Hillsong is definitely money orientated.

Any thoughts?

Sorry in advance if this divides opinion.
today the most common belief is to go to seminary and study and get a PhD from an institution and then you are authorized to preach Gods word .

that costs several thousand dollars of one takes it seriously and doesn’t go for an internet certification or anything the world demands they certify you . people want credentials .and also you have to come to thier overall conclusions about what scripture says and what does and doesn’t apply to you .

But there’s no structure that resembles anything like that in scripture that one goes to be authorized by worldly institutions first ,

it seems effect of this is rampant now

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬


And of course spend millions ( rather than help the poor ) to build campasses and charge lots to attend like a worldly business .


I believe you are on to a very big problem in the world wide church , at least many on the wealthier nations
 
S

Scribe

Guest
But where can one find a good church? All of them have faults.

If you paid attention to everything that goes on in a church, you may just decide to avoide going.
If you pray and believe God to direct you He will lead you to a good church. I have seen it happen for everyone who set their heart to pray and believe God. He knows how to do it.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
Yes God said He would send them a strong delusion because they refuse to believe the truth.
Wasn't that talking about the Man of Sin that the world would follow in the tribulation?
 
S

Scribe

Guest
today the most common belief is to go to seminary and study and get a PhD from an institution and then you are authorized to preach Gods word .

that costs several thousand dollars of one takes it seriously and doesn’t go for an internet certification or anything the world demands they certify you . people want credentials .and also you have to come to thier overall conclusions about what scripture says and what does and doesn’t apply to you .

But there’s no structure that resembles anything like that in scripture that one goes to be authorized by worldly institutions first ,

it seems effect of this is rampant now

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬


And of course spend millions ( rather than help the poor ) to build campasses and charge lots to attend like a worldly business .


I believe you are on to a very big problem in the world wide church , at least many on the wealthier nations
I agree that we need the empowering of the Holy Spirit to preach as they received on the day of Pentecost and this was for the purpose of being a witness of Christ and teaching all nations.

I also believe that when he gave teachers to the church for their maturing until they all grow up into the image of Christ that he was not just talking about the 1st century.

I don't think we are to look only to how they did things in the 1st century and try to match it. Not everything we want to know is even recorded. We don't know exactly how they did things and there is a reason for it. We think we know but the information we have is purposely sketchy. The church was not fully matured in Paul's life time. The church has been evolving and maturing ever since.
Today we have teachers that have spent thousands of hours gleaning truths from the scriptures from seminary training that can help us shorten our own learning curves. God knew that seminaries would be developed over time. It is not true that they are not from God because they did not exist in the first century. Are they necessary? No, you can read all the same books on your own. Are reading books necessary? To be a good teacher? Yes.
 

GiveThanks

God Will Make A Way
Dec 6, 2020
429
347
63
If you pray and believe God to direct you He will lead you to a good church. I have seen it happen for everyone who set their heart to pray and believe God. He knows how to do it.
I pray He will do that for me. But i dont believe that any pastor is perfect in understanding or infallible when preaching.
 
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
43
Yes indeed but the delusion has started.


It's ironic how what Trump did for Israel is a part of Israel's prophecy, not part of the Holy Bible. But Believers have mistakenly used what God [did] for Israel through Trump as a sign. Trump did his job. And his job only needed a single term for God to put everything into place.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,555
652
113
I pray He will do that for me. But i dont believe that any pastor is perfect in understanding or infallible when preaching.
I hear ya, sis. The closer we get to the end, the less perfect we all are. My thing is they ought to be able to preach AND teach as the scripture says.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
It's ironic how what Trump did for Israel is a part of Israel's prophecy, not part of the Holy Bible. But Believers have mistakenly used what God [did] for Israel through Trump as a sign. Trump did his job. And his job only needed a single term for God to put everything into place.
What did Trump do for Israel? Do you mean the US acknowledging that Jerusalem was their capital? Or mediating opening up travel and trade with some other middle east nations? What is the prophesy?
 
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
43
What did Trump do for Israel? Do you mean the US acknowledging that Jerusalem was their capital? Or mediating opening up travel and trade with some other middle east nations? What is the prophesy?
When Trump recognized Jerusalem the [mint] in Israel printed "coins' with Trump's face calling him {Cyrus}. Cyrus, none Jew (Gentile) did something special for Ancient Israel. There was some writings about it during that time. But to Israel it was something prophetic that took place.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
When Trump recognized Jerusalem the [mint] in Israel printed "coins' with Trump's face calling him {Cyrus}. Cyrus, none Jew (Gentile) did something special for Ancient Israel. There was some writings about it during that time. But to Israel it was something prophetic that took place.
I know about Cyrus. I will have to look it up. It sounds like they are honoring him like "Friend of the Jews" or Friendly Gentile King like Cyrus, but Cyrus passed and edict to let them go from Babylon and return to Jerusalem to rebuild it. Trump moved the US Embassy from TelAviv to Jerusalem. Not the same by a long shot. There is no prophesy that I know of unless someone can point it out to me, I missed it.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
When Trump recognized Jerusalem the [mint] in Israel printed "coins' with Trump's face calling him {Cyrus}. Cyrus, none Jew (Gentile) did something special for Ancient Israel. There was some writings about it during that time. But to Israel it was something prophetic that took place.
I found it. It is just a cult over there that is trying to raise money. It is not an official coin, is not from the government, and has no monetary value. It seems a fund raising effort for this group. The Israeli Mikdash Educational Center

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...-special-edition-trump-coin/story?id=55096698