It's a church hoping to Make America Great Again 
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Are Christians more accepting of charlatans then we should be?
- Thread starter LostSoul
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Maybe it's a church that wants to Mitigate America's Great Apostasy?
S
I am content to know Him and fellowship with Him. Nevertheless Faith believes God's word and sees 3000 saved in one day in the Bible (megachurch) and goes forth in the power of the Holy Ghost and has no problem expecting similar results.
Those who complain about megachurches and mighty moves of God can huddle together in their living rooms with their miserable little opinions and talk about all those false Christians out there, and repeat their SAD stories about how they got offended at the megachurch, as for me I will go with the Holy Spirit into all the world and watch Him turn it upside down again in these last days. I will believe God for an unlimited harvest of souls that one church will not be large enough for them all to meet in at one time. I think God loves it when He can find people of such faith. He is looking for them.
Those who complain about megachurches and mighty moves of God can huddle together in their living rooms with their miserable little opinions and talk about all those false Christians out there, and repeat their SAD stories about how they got offended at the megachurch, as for me I will go with the Holy Spirit into all the world and watch Him turn it upside down again in these last days. I will believe God for an unlimited harvest of souls that one church will not be large enough for them all to meet in at one time. I think God loves it when He can find people of such faith. He is looking for them.
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S
Says the guy that does things his way instead of God's way.
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No, not at all. You misunderstand me.
Let's reason for a minute. A good pastor/minister should always seek God's will on anything/everything they do.
Should I strive to build a mega church without sincerely praying about it first?
What if the Lord put you over a flock of 50 people, and it doesn't grow any further than 95. Should you quit just because it doesn't become a mega church & try again some place else?
What many forget when they shepherd a small flock is while the congregation doesn't grow as fast as we think it should, hundreds if not thousands of people could stroll in & out through the years hearing what God sent them to hear. Then there's possible radio ministry, Youtube semons, etc. that could reach even more.
I only said that as an eye opener to get you to see that our way isn't always God's way. If you don't want to talk about it anymore, fine, just say so & I'll leave you alone. I'm not trying to argue with anyone.
Let's reason for a minute. A good pastor/minister should always seek God's will on anything/everything they do.
Should I strive to build a mega church without sincerely praying about it first?
What if the Lord put you over a flock of 50 people, and it doesn't grow any further than 95. Should you quit just because it doesn't become a mega church & try again some place else?
What many forget when they shepherd a small flock is while the congregation doesn't grow as fast as we think it should, hundreds if not thousands of people could stroll in & out through the years hearing what God sent them to hear. Then there's possible radio ministry, Youtube semons, etc. that could reach even more.
I only said that as an eye opener to get you to see that our way isn't always God's way. If you don't want to talk about it anymore, fine, just say so & I'll leave you alone. I'm not trying to argue with anyone.
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S
No, not at all. You misunderstand me.
Let's reason for a minute. A good pastor/minister should always seek God's will on anything/everything they do.
Should I strive to build a mega church without sincerely praying about it first?
What if the Lord put you over a flock of 50 people, and it doesn't grow any further than 95. Should you quit just because it doesn't become a mega church & try again some place else?
What many forget when they shepherd a small flock is while the congregation doesn't grow as fast as we think it should, hundreds if not thousands of people could stroll in & out through the years hearing what God sent them to hear. Then there's possible radio ministry, Youtube semons, etc. that could reach even more.
I only said that as an eye opener to get you to see that our way isn't always God's way. If you don't want to talk about it anymore, fine, just say so & I'll leave you alone. I'm not trying to argue with anyone.
Let's reason for a minute. A good pastor/minister should always seek God's will on anything/everything they do.
Should I strive to build a mega church without sincerely praying about it first?
What if the Lord put you over a flock of 50 people, and it doesn't grow any further than 95. Should you quit just because it doesn't become a mega church & try again some place else?
What many forget when they shepherd a small flock is while the congregation doesn't grow as fast as we think it should, hundreds if not thousands of people could stroll in & out through the years hearing what God sent them to hear. Then there's possible radio ministry, Youtube semons, etc. that could reach even more.
I only said that as an eye opener to get you to see that our way isn't always God's way. If you don't want to talk about it anymore, fine, just say so & I'll leave you alone. I'm not trying to argue with anyone.
S
I should clarify that I believe that in the rare case where a man is empowered by the Holy Spirit to preach the Word of God in such a way that people experience an encounter with God when he steps to the pulpit, people will drive a hundred miles to come hear that kind of preaching in person, and in the presence of the moment which no video can substitute, and that church in what may be a small community can become a megachurch. There are millions who are hungry for such a word from God.
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S
I used to drive 150 miles to hear David Wilkerson deliver a message from heaven. I had several friends that drove 150 miles to attend bible studies in the home of Leonard Ravenhill in the 80's and 90s. Both these men were given to prayer and would not rest until they had that confirmation and release from the Spirit that they had the message God wanted them to deliver for that service, for that people, for that specific time. You always sensed that if you were there in person.
I am sure you can find things you don't agree with that these men preached. And I am sure you can find a website dedicated to exposing their "false doctrine." Don't waste your time with me. I knew them both and I will follow them as they followed Christ. They weren't theologians they weren't academics, they were just men who burned with the fresh touch of the Spirit and were good examples of the kind of preaching people are hungry for.
They both taught that God is no respecter of persons and that each of us can have that same communion with the Holy Spirit and preach so that the POWER of God is manifest and peoples hearts are opened if we spend the time in prayer that He calls us to. But few will pay that price. It has been a problem in the pulpit for centuries. Prayerless Preaching.
I am sure you can find things you don't agree with that these men preached. And I am sure you can find a website dedicated to exposing their "false doctrine." Don't waste your time with me. I knew them both and I will follow them as they followed Christ. They weren't theologians they weren't academics, they were just men who burned with the fresh touch of the Spirit and were good examples of the kind of preaching people are hungry for.
They both taught that God is no respecter of persons and that each of us can have that same communion with the Holy Spirit and preach so that the POWER of God is manifest and peoples hearts are opened if we spend the time in prayer that He calls us to. But few will pay that price. It has been a problem in the pulpit for centuries. Prayerless Preaching.
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S
When I read his post, the first person I thought of was Jim Jones.
19But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have. 20For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.
There is a preacher that is just talk. And there are those that have the Power of the Holy Spirit in their preaching.
I am aware of the fact that a vast number of Christians have never witnessed such power of the Holy Spirit in their pastors preaching and might think I was talking about natural charisma of a man's personality but that is not what I am referring to. It is the exact opposite. That natural charisma is not what Paul was talking about. The Power of God is altogether different. And you know it when you hear it and are a witness to it.
But as in other things that relate to the Holy Spirit it cannot be understood to the natural mind. This is a topic that is spiritually discerned.
B
Hello LostSoul,
I believe the time is now upon us where the Lord is again shaking the earth, so that those things that are made by man, such as are many who claim faith in what is Christ, but in fact are not, will be shaken out (Hebrews 12:26-27). I strongly suspect that when things begin to get really bad with the shaking throughout the world the Lord has commenced to undertake, will shakeout feigned faith organizations as appears to be Hillsong.
Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
I believe the time is now upon us where the Lord is again shaking the earth, so that those things that are made by man, such as are many who claim faith in what is Christ, but in fact are not, will be shaken out (Hebrews 12:26-27). I strongly suspect that when things begin to get really bad with the shaking throughout the world the Lord has commenced to undertake, will shakeout feigned faith organizations as appears to be Hillsong.
Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
I don't know who he knows or doesn't know. I do know his Church grew immensely, was very popular, Lester Sumrall used him in [Camp Meetings]. And he said during one of his last televised sermons, God directed him to hand his Church over to the next person in line and he was to spend his life with the homeless preaching to them. That's been his Calling past 25 years. He goes down to the busy Los Angeles downtown corners and [publicly preaches] every day.
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2 Peter 2:1-3
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
(Underline and bold done by me)
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
(Underline and bold done by me)
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S
He died in 2010.
His ministry radically changed in the early 80s when he began to read puritan writers and began to cry out to God for a deeper revelation of Christ. Because of his preaching, probably more than anyone else, a vast majority of sold out saints rejected the Word of Faith and Hyper Faith movement and today it is no longer a major movement.
But what made him so effective is that he lived what he preached about getting shut in with God and praying until the Holy Spirit has changed the preacher and made him one with the message.
If you listen to one of his sermons, listen to one that someone has not added music to. David did not allow people to play keyboards in the background when he preached. He would call that manipulation and flesh. He relied on the Holy Spirit to open peoples hearts. by the Power of God which has nothing to do with emotional manipulation and hype.
I am not trying to glorify a man or draw attention to a man, I am trying to bring up one example in modern times of the kind of preaching that people will travel long distances to hear. It is not the man or his eloquence, it is that gift of preaching that makes Christ known to a hungry soul. What I think Paul meant by the "Power." It makes someone fall in love with Jesus.
I have not listened to that many sermons from David Wilkerson. Those that I have listened to always made me want to know Jesus even more than I already did. I think that is a mark of biblical Spirit empowered preaching.
Who is preaching like that who is still alive today? I am sure that they are out there. I believe that if you "get shut in with God" and pray to find such a church with such preaching that God will lead you to it. I believe that God always has a remnant. It should not be that hard because as you fellowship with other hungry saints who want more of Jesus, word will get around about such a church and such preaching.
His ministry radically changed in the early 80s when he began to read puritan writers and began to cry out to God for a deeper revelation of Christ. Because of his preaching, probably more than anyone else, a vast majority of sold out saints rejected the Word of Faith and Hyper Faith movement and today it is no longer a major movement.
But what made him so effective is that he lived what he preached about getting shut in with God and praying until the Holy Spirit has changed the preacher and made him one with the message.
If you listen to one of his sermons, listen to one that someone has not added music to. David did not allow people to play keyboards in the background when he preached. He would call that manipulation and flesh. He relied on the Holy Spirit to open peoples hearts. by the Power of God which has nothing to do with emotional manipulation and hype.
I am not trying to glorify a man or draw attention to a man, I am trying to bring up one example in modern times of the kind of preaching that people will travel long distances to hear. It is not the man or his eloquence, it is that gift of preaching that makes Christ known to a hungry soul. What I think Paul meant by the "Power." It makes someone fall in love with Jesus.
I have not listened to that many sermons from David Wilkerson. Those that I have listened to always made me want to know Jesus even more than I already did. I think that is a mark of biblical Spirit empowered preaching.
Who is preaching like that who is still alive today? I am sure that they are out there. I believe that if you "get shut in with God" and pray to find such a church with such preaching that God will lead you to it. I believe that God always has a remnant. It should not be that hard because as you fellowship with other hungry saints who want more of Jesus, word will get around about such a church and such preaching.
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God confirmed HIS word given to them to preach with signs and wonders. Hundreds of thousands have made a confession of the Lord Jesus through their ministries. David Wilkerson was a man of God all the way until he was called home. A man of integrity and humility. Teen Challenge has ministered to thousand with a 70% rehabilitation with a "Christ-centered " program. NO secular program out there can say that. To God be the Glory.
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