Are Christians more accepting of charlatans then we should be?

[Scribe]

The Bible says that the Holy Spirit would teach us all things, yet many say the baptism of the Holy Spirit is no longer for the church, & others that claim to have that baptism show their ignorance of the Scriptures, causing others to believe the baptism to be no longer available.

The truth is the Bible never said the Baptism had ended, so it hasn't. Why then do we see many faults in the "Spirit filled churches"? Simple. We are in the falling away of the church, where traditions, false doctrines, and additions to the gospel have made the gospel of none effect again. ALL churches are going through this.

I don't know what you are trying to say. Is this because you could use some training? I am trying to get you to agree that training in composition, communication, and or journalism would be beneficial for a teacher who plans to write for example.

Are you saying that some seminaries do not teach that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit taught by Pentecostals is the correct interpretation of scripture? Then don't attend that seminary. There are plenty of very good seminaries that do teach that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a subsequent experience to the Holy Spirit's work of regeneration and that teach excellent courses on Lucan Pneumatology by great pentecostal scholars such as Gordon Fee, Roger Stronstad, William Menzies, Stanley Horton and others.

If you think that believing in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues means that one would be anti seminary that is not true at all. As a matter of fact one of the problems with many Pentecostals is that they rely on experience to convince others of the validity of their interpretations when they should be more scholarly in presenting from the scriptures the truth of their interpretations.
Thank God for the theologians I mentioned above who can teach you do present the scriptures in a such a way that many non pentecostals have changed their minds and become continuationists as a result of reading these mens books.

 

[Scribe]

This is the 2nd time you misconstrued one of my posts.

What part of that do you NOT understand?

We are in the last days. The church is going through the falling away. I don't have the expectation that any church or seminary is pure or perfect.

But I'm not 'gloom & doom' about it. "for where sin abounds grace does much more abound".

I am was not trying to misconstrue I was trying to figure it out.

We should certainly be careful to judge semanaries as untouched by the world (perfect) or tainted by sin. The reason is we haven't been there & seen them with our own eyes. It's just not worth it.

I have no idea what that means. That you think it is clear is simply making my point that preachers benefit from seminary education. They include classes in English and writing.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Pretty large straw man you just constructed. You can create these false images and stories about seminary all you want. It doesn't make them true. And it doesn't make you right.

With no knowledge of actually being in a real godly seminary, you are just making up straw men. No point in breaking them down. You words are imaginative, but false.

I always feel sorry for people like you, who are so deluded, and pretend to be so wise about something you have no experience or knowledge. I leave it to God to deal with your narrow, false stories.

so basically you have no actual answer ?

well I wouldn’t feel sorry for
Me , I always try to bless people like you 😍

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I am was not trying to misconstrue I was trying to figure it out.

We should certainly be careful to judge semanaries as untouched by the world (perfect) or tainted by sin. The reason is we haven't been there & seen them with our own eyes. It's just not worth it.

I have no idea what that means. That you think it is clear is simply making my point that preachers benefit from seminary education. They include classes in English and writing.

you can look into several seminaries and find out what it is they teach or rather what shape they give the doctrine it’s pretty easy to know about their message and focus before you attend for instance if you want to know what rod parsley’s seminaries teach and how they shape ministry listen to a few sermons of him and some of the more successful graduates from there

it’s okay tommake a conclusion when you have the information you need technology has made a lot of
Information available to keep informed

I would say there are some good seminaries , and I would say thier messages are as different from each other as any denominational argument you find some teach one thing about a rapture others teach other things

I would say seminaries are not biblical and offer no advantage over a good solid Bible study between a few believers in christs word hoping to learn from the gospel

 

[Scribe]

you can look into several seminaries and find out what it is they teach or rather what shape they give the doctrine it’s pretty easy to know about their message and focus before you attend for instance if you want to know what rod parsley’s seminaries teach and how they shape ministry listen to a few sermons of him and some of the more successful graduates from there

it’s okay tommake a conclusion when you have the information you need technology has made a lot of
Information available to keep informed

I would say there are some good seminaries , and I would say thier messages are as different from each other as any denominational argument you find some teach one thing about a rapture others teach other things

I would say seminaries are not biblical and offer no advantage over a good solid Bible study between a few believers in christs word hoping to learn from the gospel

Rod Parsley Seminaries? Is that really a thing? Or are you joking. I have to google it now.

 

[Edify]

I don't know what you are trying to say. Is this because you could use some training? I am trying to get you to agree that training in composition, communication, and or journalism would be beneficial for a teacher who plans to write for example.

If you got a good education from a seminary, then good for you. If another got a good education by buying buying Bible software & studying it, then good for him. . I'm not about being for or against either of these.
What I would be against is the method of selling to the public one of these ideas as if it's the only way to do it.

Did you get a good seminary education? Wonderful, I'm happy for you. It didn't work for me, because I couldn't afford it. But I could afford the software.

 

[Scribe]

Rod Parsley Seminaries? Is that really a thing? Or are you joking. I have to google it now.

It is World Harvest Bible College and it is permanently closed. But that was not a seminary. That was a bible college. A seminary offers Masters in Divinity and Doctorates as I understand it. I am not a Seminary student but I understand the benefit of Seminaries. I read the text books used in Seminary. I am not interested in the credentials, but I am interested in the education.

 

[Scribe]

If you got a good education from a seminary, then good for you. If another got a good education by buying buying Bible software & studying it, then good for him. . I'm not about being for or against either of these.
What I would be against is the method of selling to the public one of these ideas as if it's the only way to do it.

Did you get a good seminary education? Wonderful, I'm happy for you. It didn't work for me, because I couldn't afford it. But I could afford the software.

I was posting this in another reply at the same time. LOL.
I am not a Seminary student but I understand the benefit of Seminaries. I read the text books used in Seminary. I am not interested in the credentials, but I am interested in the education.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Rod Parsley Seminaries? Is that really a thing? Or are you joking. I have to google it now.

Yes please do a study about

Rod Parsley Seminaries? Is that really a thing? Or are you joking. I have to google it now.

I’m yes brother I’m not lying I did a really long investigation because I was considering seminary . I began to lose any interest when I started comparing things with the Bible

try “ valor” and I think “ world harvest” and also “charrhis “ I think that’s not spelled right but that’s my thing with seminaries there’s no one source of doctrine they each have thier own versions just like basically rod parsley teaches there are several like that even long ago all the money scams in the 80 s all those people build Bible colleges and spread their messages teach “ mini me” pastors and shape thier doctrine

parsley is only one example certainly there are great seminaries , I don’t have any trust though but it’s only my own personal thinking from what I see in scripture and it’s a discussion forum it’s not as if anyone needs to agree and are of course free to disagree that’s discussion sometimes agreement sometimes not

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This is the 2nd time you misconstrued one of my posts.

What part of that do you NOT understand?

We are in the last days. The church is going through the falling away. I don't have the expectation that any church or seminary is pure or perfect.

But I'm not 'gloom & doom' about it. "for where sin abounds grace does much more abound".

we sure have fallen a long way from the days of the apostles and church of scripture it’s sad but the falling away comes because of false doctrine leading folks away from the gospel

 

[Scribe]

If you got a good education from a seminary, then good for you. If another got a good education by buying buying Bible software & studying it, then good for him. . I'm not about being for or against either of these.
What I would be against is the method of selling to the public one of these ideas as if it's the only way to do it.

Did you get a good seminary education? Wonderful, I'm happy for you. It didn't work for me, because I couldn't afford it. But I could afford the software.

I totally agree. I have no desire to pay the thousands of dollars tuition per class.
I used the Global University to train for credentials with the Assemblies of God.
It is only $70 per class. These courses give me an equivalent 4 year Bible college education.
It takes three years to get through them taking one course per month.

However I do want to go deeper therefore I also used the catalogue for the Masters and Doctorate classes and ordered the text books from Amazon as I progress through each subject. From reading those text books I read the bibliographies and learn about other authors. Now I have discovered a few books that are called Commentary surveys that recommend the best commentaries and that has helped me find the best book for my buck.

I plan to use Bill Mounces Greek Courses which you can get from his website and are used in Seminary. It will take three years to master that material so that I can read the New Testament in Greek.

My goal is to read and master all of the text books required in the Doctorates in Biblical Studies because I want the knowledge not the degree or the title. At the rate I am going I will probably achieve that goal in about 5 more years. I have a strong feeling that I will actually know more than most of those who earn the degree because I read these books three times each to retain as much as I can and I doubt that many of those seeking a degree title do that.

My goal is not to impress anyone with a title or how much I know but to preach Jesus from the Bible in all of it's richness and I am having such a fun time reading these books as I learn so much about how to accomplish that goal each day.

Bottom line is that we can read these great books that are available to us and not have to spend money for seminary degrees.

 

[Edify]

we sure have fallen a long way from the days of the apostles and church of scripture it’s sad but the falling away comes because of false doctrine leading folks away from the gospel

Isn't it something that people won't listen to God, but they will listen to men & then wonder why God doesn't answer their prayers?

 

[Scribe]

Yes please do a study about


I’m yes brother I’m not lying I did a really long investigation because I was considering seminary . I began to lose any interest when I started comparing things with the Bible

try “ valor” and I think “ world harvest” and also “charrhis “ I think that’s not spelled right but that’s my thing with seminaries there’s no one source of doctrine they each have thier own versions just like basically rod parsley teaches there are several like that even long ago all the money scams in the 80 s all those people build Bible colleges and spread their messages teach “ mini me” pastors and shape thier doctrine

parsley is only one example certainly there are great seminaries , I don’t have any trust though but it’s only my own personal thinking from what I see in scripture and it’s a discussion forum it’s not as if anyone needs to agree and are of course free to disagree that’s discussion sometimes agreement sometimes not

I think I understand what you are saying. Personally I did not like Rod Parsely when he was on TV in the 80s. He seemed like one of those Word of Faith teachers. Not sure if I would have confidence in his take on what is doctrinally correct or not. So if his schools rely on text books that is what I would examine to determine if I agree with what they are teaching. The same with every other bible college. Of course you steer clear of those that are teaching things you don't agree with and find those that you agree with doctrinally but they are all teaching some kind of doctrine even Rod Parsely schools.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Isn't it something that people won't listen to God, but they will listen to men & then wonder why God doesn't answer their prayers?

I think it’s a matter of deception brother , it’s been mans struggle from the first this is the truth of the law and will never change it’s the war and plight of mankind

“And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God is good he made us and gave us all things . He made us free blessed us gave us dominion over all the earth and then he warned us clearly in love of the danger to our life. The first commandment is the law of life it is Gods will for Adam and Eve to
Live so he warns them of danger .

our struggle is this law , the law of sin

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s mans place to believe Gods word and live . But we believe satans word and die fully knowing what God said.

God said to keep them safe “ all things are yours you are free , but don’t eat this fruit or you will surely die “


And then satan said “ no you will
Not surely die , let me explain “

that is our plight in the world it still is true today God has declared the word of eternal life and said anyone who believes will be saved .

and so as the law of the world dictates Satan follows and says “ that’s not true , let me explain “

Satan can’t do anything in the flesh To us , he is only able to corrupt our minds and get rooted in our heart so as to influence us through our thinking and emotions , our inner state where our spirit is known to us .

so since Adam he has been trying to keep Mankind from believing the word God has spoken and declared. It’s what he does now to
Keep people from believing the gospel because he knows it’s salvation

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:3-4, 6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Satan knows what the gospel is full well and wants to keep us from it he does that to the world like it says above like this

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

once you create your own version and label it salvstion and then convince others that Jesus version wasn’t right but theirs is , that’s being blinded and makes some not able to hear it for what it is

but the situation is we share the gospel satan doesn’t want anyone to believe and whoever belongs to Christ will eventually hear the truth and then repentance happens .

a lot of folks are deceived but it didn’t happen without false doctrines flooding the world.

if all Mankind had ever believed was what God said we wouldn’t be in this mess we’d be alive in the kingdom

It’s a battle inside of our minds and hearts the truth is the gospel and the world is seeking to pull anyone it can away from the gospel

 

[KingdomBrat]

Paul used those synagogues for his version of Seminary.

 

[Angela53510]

This is the 2nd time you misconstrued one of my posts.

What part of that do you NOT understand?

We are in the last days. The church is going through the falling away. I don't have the expectation that any church or seminary is pure or perfect.

But I'm not 'gloom & doom' about it. "for where sin abounds grace does much more abound".

Even your eschatological view of the "last days" is only one of 4 different eschatological viewpoints.

I don't necessarily agree we are in the end times. Just because the US is falling, doesn't mean the gospel won't take off in many countries, from Asia to Muslims in Indonesia and the Middle East. Dispensationalism is about as far from the truth of the Bible you can get.

I went to Dispie churches for 15 years. It wasn't what I was reading in my Bible. But I kept my mouth shut, for fear of being called a heretic, even though whatever you believe about end times has NOTHING to do with salvation.

What I learned in Seminary, was that there are 4 eschatological viewpoints. I studied and read source material, plus opposing material. In the end, I realized I had always been Amillennial, I just had not known the name. It matched what I had been reading in my Bible for 25 years, at that point!! (Still does!)

All you learn is what you are taught in church, by someone who has no biblical training either. Even if you Google things, I'll bet you don't listen to sermons that are different than what you believe. And that applies to many aspects of Theology. I am Reformed in soteriology. It fits what I have read in the Bible, learned in seminary, and even my personal experience of salvation. Although I was taught Arminianism for 15 bad years. I got to see all the viewpoints in seminary, which included a few others besides Arminian and Reformed views of salvation, too!

Our professors didn't tell us what to believe at all! They told us to read the Bible, read the literature and figure out what we believed, because we were going to have to understand what and why we were preaching something. We did a series on Rev., and all the members of the preaching team had the same view. So, we preached verse by verse and showed why we believed what we did. It was a good series.

We all went to different seminaries, but the Biblical standard was the same. Very conservative, and relying on the Bible. But with some useful tools for studying the Bible, especially hermeneutics, but also the original languages, too.

If you have never been to a conservative, Bible believing seminary, then don't knock it. Studying the Bible increases my love for God and his people. It has given me tools to evangelize, to teach and preach, and also to write about my ministry, to inspire others.

There is a whole world of broken and hurting people, and I am gaining skills to help those people. You should do what God calls you to do. If he doesn't call you to seminary, then don't go! But don't put those of us down, that God has called and we have obeyed and are bearing fruit!!

 

[Edify]

Paul used those synagogues for his version of Seminary.

Maybe so, but let's not forget he counted it all but loss to gain Christ. (Philippians 3:2-11)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Paul used those synagogues for his version of Seminary.

Paul actually taught the churches version of how teachers , pastors , evangelists , prophets are called and empowered to edify the church

“I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:1-8, 11-16‬ ‭

and when he did make a particular direction to someone who would continue his ministry he told him to preach the word because many deceptions were coming that would be fully approved by the teachers of
Men , and would cause the truth to be spoken of as evil

Peter also warned of this

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways;

by Reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the truth is the gospel it’s Jesus and his words , many seminaries and random teachers teach many things to turn one away from the word of Christ , subtly but when it strays from the gospel it ends up making our minds reject the truth Jesus spoke about salvation

and the promise of salvation is manifest in the gospel they all Believed and then spread it into the world we are still now discussing and believing the gospel . Because people believed it and taught it and knew it was true and wrote it down and sent it further into the world and others carried that work on spreading the gospel into the world for the witness of Gods truth

 

[KingdomBrat]

Maybe so, but let's not forget he counted it all but loss to gain Christ. (Philippians 3:2-11)

Paul was a chief student of the [LAW]. He had the best professor. From Paul's own Account/Writings, he went through a formidable "educational system." And he affirms as such by purposefully engaging Synagogues, where the [custom] was for a visiting Pharisee/Student of the Law would be given permission to speak. And we see how in a [formative structure],[outlining] the key events within the Torah, connecting them to the Messiah, Paul then teaches them the [Gospel].

That's the best example of a Seminar in action found in the Bible.

 

[Edify]

If he doesn't call you to seminary, then don't go! But don't put those of us down, that God has called and we have obeyed and are bearing fruit!!

Where do people get the idea that am putting seminarians down?
Truly it makes me wonder what people have learned at all if they can't understand a simple post.