Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.
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What you have said here is mostly true, but it is not the full picture. There really is more to it than that.
I will plan to elaborate and explain later - I do not have enough time now.
(Rule Them With A Rod Of Iron) dosent mean Jesus Christ sitting on a throne with an iron scepter, as you suggest and claim, (False)
It means nothing more than the Lords (Destruction) of the wicked, as a potter destroys his clay vessels with a rod of iron (Fact)
The (Rod Of Iron) Is A Tool Of (Destruction) Not A Scepter
Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
can you explain what you mean by “
Rapture “ seems people have many ideas of what that is exactly .
it could help the discussion to explain what you believe the term rapture means , I’ve noticed sometimes we have a different idea of what a term means and it sort of sinks the conversation before it starts .
There are several ideas of what the rapture actually is , could I trouble you to briefly explain what it is to you ?
Here's a fact that is relevant:(Rule Them With A Rod Of Iron) dosent mean Jesus Christ sitting on a throne with an iron scepter, as you suggest and claim, (False)
It means nothing more than the Lords (Destruction) of the wicked, as a potter destroys his clay vessels with a rod of iron (Fact)
2 Tim 2:12a - if we endure, we will also reign with him.
Now, what do kings do? Rule (reign).
Where do kings rule from? Their throne.
Very simple.
(Rule Them With A Rod Of Iron) dosent mean Jesus Christ sitting on a throne with an iron scepter, as you suggest and claim, (False)
It means nothing more than the Lords (Destruction) of the wicked, as a potter destroys his clay vessels with a rod of iron (Fact)
The (Rod Of Iron) Is A Tool Of (Destruction) Not A Scepter
Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
it’s a reference to his iron in changeable words in the gospel , that’s the rod of iron that breaks the wicked. Notice it comes from his mouth ? Whos
Name is the word of God ?
his word is like a rod of iron Gods eternal
Judgements actually are the things Christ preached and they are unchangeable able to rescue believers from sin and death and able to hold for punishment eternal the wicked who reject him
everything hinges on what Christ says about eternal life . It’s a rod of iron to the rebellious and lawless , and a lifeline for believers
“I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
Psalms 2:7, 9-12
There’s no escaping christs word it’s a rod of iron by which the lord will rule eternally the rod of iron is his word , the word of God
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50
Your response has absolutely "Nothing" to do with the claim made
Jesus Christ will not rule with a scepter of iron, a false claim, (Fact)
(Rule Them With A Rod Of Iron) dosent mean Jesus Christ sitting on a throne with an iron scepter, as Ahwatukee claimed (False)
It means nothing more than the Lords (Destruction) of the wicked, as a potter destroys his clay vessels with a rod of iron (Fact)
The (Rod Of Iron) Is A Tool Of (Destruction) Not A Scepter
Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
The Whole Teaching Of A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On Earth Is Falsely Supported By Revelation 20:1-6 Below
Direct Questions: Please Find A (Earthly Kingdom), Jesus Christ On A (Earthly Throne), Or (Mortal Humans) In Revelation 20:1-6 Below?
1.) Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Earthly Throne?
3.) Mortal Humans?
You Can't, Because They Don't Exist!
The Teaching Of A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Where Jesus Christ Sits On A Throne, Ruling Over Mortal Humans?
"It's A Man Made Fairy Tale" (Fact)
In Love
Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
That statement is PATENTLY FALSE. It is just like saying that the sun does not exist, even though sunlight is necessary for life on this planet. Or in the case of atheists saying that God does not exist.
If "a (or the) thousand years"is mentioned SIX TIMES in seven verses, then only someone who is very dishonest will claim that it does not mean a literal millennium.
(Thousand Years) is mentioned twice below, will anyone be ignorantly dishonest and claim it represents a literal (Thousand Years) upon this existing physical earth
2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Christians with overactive imaginations do the same for the specified 70th week of years, 42 months, 1260 days, 3 1/2 years.
Makes no sense to me whatsoever. Who in the world wants to read a Bible that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever?
Lol
You omit rev 14
I don't really blame you.
It is not in your doctrine.
You got the dead rising after the living gathered.
Your response has absolutely "Nothing" to do with the claim made
Jesus Christ will not rule with a scepter of iron, a false claim, (Fact)
(Rule Them With A Rod Of Iron) dosent mean Jesus Christ sitting on a throne with an iron scepter, as Ahwatukee claimed (False)
It means nothing more than the Lords (Destruction) of the wicked, as a potter destroys his clay vessels with a rod of iron (Fact)
The (Rod Of Iron) Is A Tool Of (Destruction) Not A Scepter
Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
meow you have some interesting ideas
Jesus Christ will rule forever with this “ rod of iron “
“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:
and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
Revelation 12:5 KJV
Then in the end when he returns you see why it’s called a rod of iron
“And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”
Revelation 19:11-15 KJV
The sword comes out of his mouth because it’s his word , it is a rod of inbreakable iron it will save eternally those who accept and believe and condemn eternally those who reject
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
is it your position Jesus isn’t the child born and taken to Gods throne ? To rule with a rod of iron ? Really ? And it isn’t Jesus who returns from heaven with heaven following who rules with a rod of iron ?
your position is that Jesus isn’t the one who is going to rule all
Nations with the “ rod of iron ?”
the man child who would rule all nations with justice forever ??? Not Jesus your saying ?
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”
Isaiah 9:6-7 KJV
not Jesus though ?
“And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”
Luke 1:31-33 KJV
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20
seems like Jesus is the only one referenced ever to rule with a rod of iron over all nations
but all that being said I’m thinking your one of those you already know and don’t need to consider scripture
Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?
Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.
If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written
(Four hundred and ninety years), simple
Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.
Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;
Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.
Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.
Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.
When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.
62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.
The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.
The 3.5 year tribulation has started.
Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The (Rod Of Iron) Is A Tool Of (Destruction) Not A Scepter
Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Weeks of years is a Hebraism. A Greek mindset will fail you when it comes to eschatology.
I said:
"Here's a fact that is relevant:
2 Tim 2:12a - if we endure, we will also reign with him.
Now, what do kings do? Rule (reign).
Where do kings rule from? Their throne.
Very simple."
Rev 12:5 - She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.
Rev 19:15 - Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
These are the real facts. And it's very obvious that "ruling with an iron scepter" and "ruling with a rod of iron" are equivalents.
"Here's a fact that is relevant:
2 Tim 2:12a - if we endure, we will also reign with him.
Now, what do kings do? Rule (reign).
Where do kings rule from? Their throne.
Very simple."
Rev 2:27 - that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father.Your response has absolutely "Nothing" to do with the claim made
Jesus Christ will not rule with a scepter of iron, a false claim, (Fact)
(Rule Them With A Rod Of Iron) dosent mean Jesus Christ sitting on a throne with an iron scepter, as Ahwatukee claimed (False)
It means nothing more than the Lords (Destruction) of the wicked, as a potter destroys his clay vessels with a rod of iron (Fact)
The (Rod Of Iron) Is A Tool Of (Destruction) Not A Scepter
Rev 12:5 - She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.
Rev 19:15 - Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
These are the real facts. And it's very obvious that "ruling with an iron scepter" and "ruling with a rod of iron" are equivalents.
Yes, let's NOT be ignorant, as Peter says.(Thousand Years) is mentioned twice below, will anyone be ignorantly dishonest and claim it represents a literal (Thousand Years) upon this existing physical earth
2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Peter was teaching that God's timing is obviously different than ours. I personally believe that Peter was also making a point about the length of the human race from Adam to eternity. Just as there were 6 days of restoration (most would say 'creation' but that's for another thread) and then God rested the 7th day, there will be 6,000 years of human history, and then the earth rests during Christ's earthly reign, for 1,000 years.
So when Jesus indicated that He would return shortly, from Peter, He's only been gone for 2 "days".
But let's not go down that path.