Obedience is not Legalism, it is.....
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Which is why I have argued that once SAVED always saved is flawed..........it should say once SANCTIFIED always sanctified......Because, based on Scripture and the lives of the Apostles, this is the more True statement.
The newborn in Jesus are those in most danger of being led astray. The Apostle Paul spent a lot of time speaking of this and warning about this, and WHY it is so very important to receive the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. The mature sanctified believers become so strong in their faith that they are able to withstand the temptations of the world. Does NOT mean that they can NOT choose to turn their backs on Jesus, it means they love Him so much that would not dream of doing so.
That is why OSAS as it is taught today is flawed Theology IMO.
The newborn in Jesus are those in most danger of being led astray. The Apostle Paul spent a lot of time speaking of this and warning about this, and WHY it is so very important to receive the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. The mature sanctified believers become so strong in their faith that they are able to withstand the temptations of the world. Does NOT mean that they can NOT choose to turn their backs on Jesus, it means they love Him so much that would not dream of doing so.
That is why OSAS as it is taught today is flawed Theology IMO.
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This was all he was saying, just like you don't hear anyone teaching "be saved and then do what you want", I don't hear anyone teaching "works save you, or works keep you saved", it's almost like both sides are arguing with no one. So stop it. (this is and general "stop it", aimed at everyone, most of all me, not just you)
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E
This is nothing but pure legalism
God is nit going to cast a person to hell because as a babe he did not grow like you think he should. If God gave him eternal life he has it. He does not tell us to first sanctify ourselves then we are assured
As God spoke in his word he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. Forever means forever. Where is your faith in Christ?
God is nit going to cast a person to hell because as a babe he did not grow like you think he should. If God gave him eternal life he has it. He does not tell us to first sanctify ourselves then we are assured
As God spoke in his word he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. Forever means forever. Where is your faith in Christ?
There are several different connotations of "saved" in scripture:
The Messiah spoke about being "saved" as deliverance from the bondage to sin.
The Israelites understood being "saved" as deliverance from bondage to their enemies; those nations who were oppressing them.
John was given a vision about being "saved" from bondage to death in the book of Revelation (along with other things but just making a note of saved in this context).
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Upon confession of faith in the Messiah, one is saved from the bondage of sin...which is called a gift.
...and when the Messiah returns He will regather Israel and save them from their enemies of the nations...which is called a promise.
...but absolutely no one has been saved from the bondage to death yet, not until the transformation. So there is a final "salvation" believers await; deliverance from these mortal bodies. As scripture says, the LAST enemy is death.
Believers die every single day as they look forward to receiving glorified bodies that can never die...which is called a reward (not a gift nor a promise).
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Rewards come from putting in work to earn it, and as every New Testament writer explains our good work is obedience. One's reward (eternal life = immortal body) is assured AS LONG AS one continues in obedience. Many will stumble, and for those times we have confession, mercy, and the grace to do better next time (as long as our heart is in the right place).
But if ever one willingly chooses to forsake obedience, grieving the Holy Spirit and counting the blood & sacrifice of the Messiah as an insignificant thing - after KNOWING the truth - they will lose their reward. They will not be saved (from death). These will be those who will weep and gnash their teeth in outer darkness while they see the magnificent city of light as the Almighty and the Messiah dwells with glorified people, while they are unable to get in along with the rest of those who were disobedient and sinful.
The Messiah spoke about being "saved" as deliverance from the bondage to sin.
The Israelites understood being "saved" as deliverance from bondage to their enemies; those nations who were oppressing them.
John was given a vision about being "saved" from bondage to death in the book of Revelation (along with other things but just making a note of saved in this context).
----
Upon confession of faith in the Messiah, one is saved from the bondage of sin...which is called a gift.
...and when the Messiah returns He will regather Israel and save them from their enemies of the nations...which is called a promise.
...but absolutely no one has been saved from the bondage to death yet, not until the transformation. So there is a final "salvation" believers await; deliverance from these mortal bodies. As scripture says, the LAST enemy is death.
Believers die every single day as they look forward to receiving glorified bodies that can never die...which is called a reward (not a gift nor a promise).
----
Rewards come from putting in work to earn it, and as every New Testament writer explains our good work is obedience. One's reward (eternal life = immortal body) is assured AS LONG AS one continues in obedience. Many will stumble, and for those times we have confession, mercy, and the grace to do better next time (as long as our heart is in the right place).
But if ever one willingly chooses to forsake obedience, grieving the Holy Spirit and counting the blood & sacrifice of the Messiah as an insignificant thing - after KNOWING the truth - they will lose their reward. They will not be saved (from death). These will be those who will weep and gnash their teeth in outer darkness while they see the magnificent city of light as the Almighty and the Messiah dwells with glorified people, while they are unable to get in along with the rest of those who were disobedient and sinful.
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Did I say that?
I can ask you a random question that has nothing to do with what you said either. So you never hear anyone saying "you can be saved and produce no works at all"? I have, and couldn't disagree with it anymore than I do. Why are you going straight into trying to pick a fight and cause a problem? YOU are the reason I hate this site and never come here anymore. You win "brother", bask in your superior knowledge and know everythingness. Don't worry you won't have to suffer my comments anymore. Screw CC fighttown.
I can ask you a random question that has nothing to do with what you said either. So you never hear anyone saying "you can be saved and produce no works at all"? I have, and couldn't disagree with it anymore than I do. Why are you going straight into trying to pick a fight and cause a problem? YOU are the reason I hate this site and never come here anymore. You win "brother", bask in your superior knowledge and know everythingness. Don't worry you won't have to suffer my comments anymore. Screw CC fighttown.
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There is nothing but love from the people on this site period. It has a reputation for jerks on the internet, so you know we are all representing Him that way as far as how the outside sees us, just so you know. So you jumped into "teach me a lesson", one that I already agree with I guess. I don't believe one can lose or give up true salvation. So instead of assuming without even asking, I'd like to know why you felt the need to assert this to me out of the clear blue, what exactly are you trying to correct me on? I agree with what you're saying here, didn't type anything that suggest I don't, so what exactly are you trying to teach me here?
E
and I would be right there with you, a person who has faith in someone would never disobey them in all things, you would only do that if your faith is not real
who in Gods name said I was trying to pick a fight? I was just stating a fact,
what is sad is you can not even answer my question and yet want to attack me
you need to look inside man, I am sick of people falsely accusing others, you claim I am not understanding the, well then back it with proof.
again, have you never heard anyone say that salvation can be lost if we do Not do this or that?
can you please answer my question?
who in Gods name said I was trying to pick a fight? I was just stating a fact,
what is sad is you can not even answer my question and yet want to attack me
you need to look inside man, I am sick of people falsely accusing others, you claim I am not understanding the, well then back it with proof.
again, have you never heard anyone say that salvation can be lost if we do Not do this or that?
can you please answer my question?
E
Maybe it was because of what you said. “I do not hear people saying works save you or works keep you saved”
so in response I asked you to verify what you said by asking you a question to prove what you said was true
your response was to go off on me
maybe you need to reread what you post before you hit send.
your attacking people for doing the very thing you are doing.
so in response I asked you to verify what you said by asking you a question to prove what you said was true
your response was to go off on me
maybe you need to reread what you post before you hit send.
your attacking people for doing the very thing you are doing.
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You are actually right about this. I have been soured on this site and did unfairly lash out too fast at you. I was wrong to do that. I admit it, and what I'm about to say doesn't change the fact I was wrong or justify my actions in any way. But I was so ready to lash out so fast because I was expecting exactly what you gave. You may even do it with the best intentions, but you seem to be able to correct everybody on everything. You ALWAYS have something to say/correct. As if you're the grand teacher or something.
Okay my personal view shared it's only fair to realize I'm doing a lot of assuming and projecting here myself. It seems I'm just not cut out for online interaction. Not here anyway. Seems the ranks here are thinning themselves out a lot anyway. Seems there used to be a lot more people here. Then when I got banned I actually started reading reviews on this site. CC is generally known as a very unwelcoming fight club where if you disagree with anything you are dog piled on. In a lot of the reviews they would throw in the occasional "there are a few nice people, but most were unreasonable and rude". I mean I can see how, and I really loved this site for a while, but the hard truth is that we represent Jesus poorly. Even if we disagree with people we should give them no reason to accuse us the way they do. I hate that I'm part of it. I guess I answered the question "do I do any good at CC?" Minimal at best and more likely to turn someone from Jesus that to Him. Sorry E-G I won't be stinking up your site anymore. Sorry for the disruption, I think I've finally learned my place......is not here. Thanks and have a great day in Jesus name.
Okay my personal view shared it's only fair to realize I'm doing a lot of assuming and projecting here myself. It seems I'm just not cut out for online interaction. Not here anyway. Seems the ranks here are thinning themselves out a lot anyway. Seems there used to be a lot more people here. Then when I got banned I actually started reading reviews on this site. CC is generally known as a very unwelcoming fight club where if you disagree with anything you are dog piled on. In a lot of the reviews they would throw in the occasional "there are a few nice people, but most were unreasonable and rude". I mean I can see how, and I really loved this site for a while, but the hard truth is that we represent Jesus poorly. Even if we disagree with people we should give them no reason to accuse us the way they do. I hate that I'm part of it. I guess I answered the question "do I do any good at CC?" Minimal at best and more likely to turn someone from Jesus that to Him. Sorry E-G I won't be stinking up your site anymore. Sorry for the disruption, I think I've finally learned my place......is not here. Thanks and have a great day in Jesus name.
E
Your good bro
just remember something I did not try to correct you. I asked you a question to get YOU to think and maybe see what i
Am talking about
this place can wear on you. I keep
Leaving for awhile also because I am
Sick of the false Accusations people keep Making against others because of lack of understanding and getting away with it. Because if this I get angry and lash out far To Much also.
I think we all are guilty. At times. So forgive me when I mis speak
just remember something I did not try to correct you. I asked you a question to get YOU to think and maybe see what i
Am talking about
this place can wear on you. I keep
Leaving for awhile also because I am
Sick of the false Accusations people keep Making against others because of lack of understanding and getting away with it. Because if this I get angry and lash out far To Much also.
I think we all are guilty. At times. So forgive me when I mis speak
