Understanding Gen 2:7

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calibob said:
That brings up an interesting story regarding a King a Witch and a ghost from 1 Samuel 28:13“Do not be afraid,” the king replied. “What do you see?” “I see a godb coming up out of the earth,” the woman answered. 14“What does he look like?” asked Saul. “An old man is coming up,” she replied. “And he is wearing a robe.” So Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed facedown in reverence. 15Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” “I am deeply distressed,” replied Saul. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has turned away from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.” 16“Why do you consult me,” asked Samuel, “since the LORD has turned away from you and become your enemy? 17He has done exactly what He spoke through me: The LORD has torn the kingship out of your hand and given it to your neighbor David. 18Because you did not obey the LORD or carry out His burning anger against Amalek, the LORD has done this to you today. 19Moreover, the LORD will deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. And the LORD will deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.”
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Few things to be addressed here.
  1. God had turned away from Saul.
  2. He no longer answers by prophets or dreams.
  3. What form or WHat does he look like? meaning Saul could not see.
First and foremost,
God had shown His abhorrence of the practice of necromancy by ordering the death of all who engaged in it (Lev. 20:27). Even those who consulted spiritualistic mediums were to be cut off (Lev. 20:6). Hence the communication must have come from some other source. There are those who hold that the spirits of the dead return to commune with the living. These would maintain that the spirit of Samuel responded to the summons of the medium. But a communication from Samuel, speaking as a prophet, would indirectly be a communication from God, and it is expressly stated that the Lord refused to communicate with Saul (1 Sam. 28:6). Saul was slain, “for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; and enquired not of the Lord” (1 Chron. 10:13, 14).
 
Magenta said:
Everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this? <- Jesus speaking in John 11:26 :)
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Shall never die. The negative is strongly expressed in the Greek. The reference here is clearly to the second death and not to the cessation of life that comes to all at the end of their earthly pilgrimage. This latter experience is implied in ch. 11:25 in the expression “though he were dead,” which is better rendered, “even though he should die.” The second death is synonymous with the expression “perish” in ch. 3:16. From this experience those who live and believe in Jesus will be delivered (Rev. 20:6).
 
Corban said:
Looks like I touched a sore spot. And I can't even wish you a "happy Ishtar".
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I ain't celebrated that 1 day of my adult life. Probably since I was 15 or 16. I don't even go to church on that day, and haven't as far as I can remember. You don't know anything about me. My reasons ain't yours either.
 
Corban said:
The Christian mind is sometimes amazing. We have history that tells us that in 313 AD, Emperor of the Roman Empire, Constantine, declared Christianity a state religion. But with only about 3% of the population Christian, Constantine could not very well abolish the feasts of 97% of the population. So he just ordered that these feasts would be given Christian connotations and vocabulary. The three great pagan feasts of the pagan world, (i) the resurrection of the sun-god Ra three days after the winter solstice (24th Dec.), (ii) the fertility feast of Ishtar on the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox (northern hemisphere), and (ii) Hallowed Evening on the last night of October, were, at first, shunned by Christians. They knew something and acted on it, as did the Puritans of over a thousand years later.

They knew that Israel had done this at Mt. Sinai and God wanted to kill them all. They built a pagan calf and gave it Jehovah's name - the gods (plural) that brought them out of Egypt. Now we have 98% of Christianity doing the same thing. They join the pagan feasts and what they stand for, but give it Christ's name.

Naturally, if somebody like me comes along and points this out, he is not thanked. He is the butt of jokes at best or, at worst, vilified.
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There are some historical accuracy issues with your statement.
 
laymen said:
Few things to be addressed here.
  1. God had turned away from Saul.
  2. He no longer answers by prophets or dreams.
  3. What form or WHat does he look like? meaning Saul could not see.
First and foremost,
God had shown His abhorrence of the practice of necromancy by ordering the death of all who engaged in it (Lev. 20:27). Even those who consulted spiritualistic mediums were to be cut off (Lev. 20:6). Hence the communication must have come from some other source. There are those who hold that the spirits of the dead return to commune with the living. These would maintain that the spirit of Samuel responded to the summons of the medium. But a communication from Samuel, speaking as a prophet, would indirectly be a communication from God, and it is expressly stated that the Lord refused to communicate with Saul (1 Sam. 28:6). Saul was slain, “for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; and enquired not of the Lord” (1 Chron. 10:13, 14).
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Yes I got all of that. The issue in the OP's 1st post was if the spirits of the dead are conscience. It would seem to me that Samuel rebuked Saul for disturbing him because he preferred being at rest than awake. Necromancy and seeking help from a witch weren't the only issues raised by this section of scripture. That's why I picked it!.

When scripture says "Those who are asleep in Christ will rise" It's talking about the unconscious dead. That they are asleep, rather than awake and waiting for the Lords return. IMO, those who go straight to heaven after death are rare. Most of the rest of the dead are resting.
 
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Copied from an old post (https://christianchat.com/threads/today.81314/post-1335289):

Luke 23:

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.



Sometimes we find ourselves looking so hard at the Greek and Hebrew that we forget about the English it was translated into...

Since the intent of the translators was for it to make sense to English-reading people according to English language and grammar...



To me, the most convincing answer is both simple - and - in English!

If you will look carefully at the grammar and usage of every occurance of the phrase 'shalt thou be' - especially as compared to the phrase 'thou shalt be' -- I believe you will find that in each case, the phrase is "operative" on one or more words - indicating time, condition, or circumstance.

You will not find a stand-alone 'shalt thou be', whereas you will find a stand-alone 'thou shalt be'.

Even though sufficient meaning may be present in the Greek, you would not - in English - say:

"shalt thou be with me in paradise" ( stand-alone; incomplete as a statement )

Whereas - in English - you would say:

"thou shalt be with me in paradise" ( stand-alone; complete as a statement )

'To day' is needed to complete "shalt thou be with me in paradise" in English.

"It's that simple...";)

I believe the above verse is written correctly - with the comma - in the right place... :cool:

:)
 
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laymen said:
Before I study I always pray,//// Remember to pray.

In order to keep this study Christ centered I will use Luke 23 and work up to Gen 2:7

Understanding Death and life and resurrection of Jesus are basic pillars of Faith
Jesus dyed for us on the cross for our sin's only to be resurrected from the dead and now is in heaven.


Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
KJV Lk 23:46).

View attachment 223281

The NKJV Say's it best here "....Having said this He breathed His last."
View attachment 223283


Ps 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.King James Version. View attachment 223286

(SDABC)
That is, consciousness ceases. The Bible lends no support to the popular doctrine of a conscious state between death and the resurrection and furthermore emphatically refutes such a teaching (see Ps. 115:17; Eccl. 9:5).

Jesus Literally, “He expired,” that is, “he breathed out.” (SDABC)


Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
KJV Lk 23:46).


KJV Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?


The latter part of the passage speaks specifically of the death and burial of Christ. It was this humiliation of Christ that led to His exaltation (Phil. 2:5–11). <<Jesus was fully man and God and fully dyed as a man.

The only reason Jesus was able to come back to life is because he followed the Law completely. <<lack of a better word. But he had to die for our sin or it would not be complete.



Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Ge 2:7). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.


View attachment 223295
View attachment 223297

Breathe of Life gave Adam and Eve Life but the Tree of Life sustained Adam and Eve. We all are given this breathe, good and bad..

Same breath Jesus gave up. Not a dichotomy of the consciousness/ Spirit.

The Breath of life goes back to God not your consciousness/a ghost like Spirit.
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I beg to differ about him being raised from the dead because hi led a sinless life. In truth it's what made his sacrifice so perfect. According to the law, we all deserve what Jesus did for us. Jesus broke no laws it's true but the laws were created for mankind. Mankind wasn't made for the laws. In fact before Moses the only and first law was not to eat the fruit of the tree of good and evil. Jesus probably could have pardoned himself, (if he chose to) but he didn't!
 
calibob said:
I beg to differ about him being raised from the dead because hi led a sinless life. In truth it's what made his sacrifice so perfect. According to the law, we all deserve what Jesus did for us. Jesus broke no laws it's true but the laws were created for mankind. Mankind wasn't made for the laws. In fact before Moses the only and first law was not to eat the fruit of the tree of good and evil. Jesus probably could have pardoned himself, (if he chose to) but he didn't!
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Fare enough
 
Nehemiah6 said:
Let me know when you find a snake which is also a farmer.
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You might want to read from the Library of Congress the story about a man that 'bought the farm' from a snake: [Link] http://read.gov/aesop/094.html

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. Matt 12:34

So do you think that Jesus was talking to snakes? or men?
 
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Blackpowderduelist said:
I ain't celebrated that 1 day of my adult life. Probably since I was 15 or 16. I don't even go to church on that day, and haven't as far as I can remember. You don't know anything about me. My reasons ain't yours either.
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Fair answer. Go well brother.
 
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Blackpowderduelist said:
There are some historical accuracy issues with your statement.
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Could be. They say the victors get to write history - and then on top of that it is written by fallen men who are not inspired.

We've come a long way from the theme of the thread. I'm happy to walk away from this non-contributory line of discussion. Go well bro.
 
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KJV1611 said:
But it does have a relation to Pascha. This the one and only place in the bible where passover is mentioned AFTER it had been fulfilled. In other words Easter is the word God chose to call the fulfillment of passover.
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Corban said:
But what you didn't say is why "Pascha" is translated "Easter".
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posthuman said:
No, its not.
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posthuman said:
But there's an obvious 'replacement' of the actual word in the Biblical source text with this word.
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With regard to the word 'Easter' in Acts 12:4, and the context of the verse:

I suggest that:

1) Easter was a pagan holiday.
2) The KJV translation of the word 'Easter' is correct.

I believe that the answers to these three questions are "at the core" of how to solve this issue:

1) What did the greek word ['pascha'] mean to the writer?
2) What did the greek word ['pascha'] mean to the translators?
3) What did the word 'Easter' mean to the translators?

That being said, my understanding has always been:

Acts 12:

1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. 2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. 3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.) 4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

This statement indicates that the "arrest" of Peter occured during the week after the passover.

Which leaves the last phrase of verse 4 pointing to something other than the passover.

The pagan Easter holiday occurred near-after the passover. The translators must have determined that this was actually what was being referred to - and thereby used the word 'Easter' instead of the word 'passover'.
 
GaryA said:
With regard to the word 'Easter' in Acts 12:4, and the context of the verse:

I suggest that:

1) Easter was a pagan holiday.
2) The KJV translation of the word 'Easter' is correct.

I believe that the answers to these three questions are "at the core" of how to solve this issue:

1) What did the greek word ['pascha'] mean to the writer?
2) What did the greek word ['pascha'] mean to the translators?
3) What did the word 'Easter' mean to the translators?

That being said, my understanding has always been:

Acts 12:

1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. 2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. 3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.) 4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

This statement indicates that the "arrest" of Peter occured during the week after the passover.

Which leaves the last phrase of verse 4 pointing to something other than the passover.

The pagan Easter holiday occurred near-after the passover. The translators must have determined that this was actually what was being referred to - and thereby used the word 'Easter' instead of the word 'passover'.
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It’s pointing to Passover week.
 
GaryA said:
With regard to the word 'Easter' in Acts 12:4, and the context of the verse:

I suggest that:

1) Easter was a pagan holiday.
2) The KJV translation of the word 'Easter' is correct.

I believe that the answers to these three questions are "at the core" of how to solve this issue:

1) What did the greek word ['pascha'] mean to the writer?
2) What did the greek word ['pascha'] mean to the translators?
3) What did the word 'Easter' mean to the translators?

That being said, my understanding has always been:

Acts 12:

1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. 2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. 3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.) 4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

This statement indicates that the "arrest" of Peter occured during the week after the passover.

Which leaves the last phrase of verse 4 pointing to something other than the passover.

The pagan Easter holiday occurred near-after the passover. The translators must have determined that this was actually what was being referred to - and thereby used the word 'Easter' instead of the word 'passover'.
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So they imported a pagan holiday from mesopotamia and the in the pleasing of the Jews they decided to wait till after a holiday they didn't celebrate?
 
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