Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

[Absolutely]

Praise God!!!! Even so come quickly Lord

Those are the last utterances of the bible.

But note who invokes them.

It is the Spirit and the bride.

The bride is saying "come Lord Jesus"

"Believers " do not say that. Only the bride.
Only the bride is taken in the rapture.
Believers stay.
Believers are tirelessly posting "Jesus can not come for anyone till after the gt. "

And at the same time say, ; they are concerned that the bride is decieved.

Great deception in the church.

 

[BenjaminN]

Do you not believe in the imminent return of christ?

Yes, it follows immediately after the great tribulation, which is imminent.

Matthew 24 (NKJV)

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[BenjaminN]

It says "power was given the antichrist to overcome the saints"

It goes back to God judging indirectly.

According to pre-tribulation rapture theory, how can God's saints be in the great tribulation, if they were all supposed to be raptured before the great tribulation?

 

[Absolutely]

According to pre-tribulation rapture theory, how can God's saints be in the great tribulation, if they were all supposed to be raptured before the great tribulation?

Only the bride is taken.

See mat 25.

The ones left behind are beheaded. (For refusing the mark)

 

[Truth7t7]

Greetings Almondjoy!

Yes, Jesus' return for His church is and has always been imminent, i.e. there are no events that have to take place before He comes to gather us.

Your Claim Is False.......

The scripture clearly (WARNS) the believers to look for the Antichrist, that will (Precede) the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

2 Thessalonians 2:1-5KJV
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

 

[BenjaminN]

Gods testimony.

We know God judges us indirectly through what we see in the OT. He used other nations to Judge his people (indirect judgement).
Same thing with antichrist.

The ac kills all refusing the mark.
That alone proves a pretrib rapture.
Those left behind lose their heads.

If you say God's faithful is raptured before the great tribulation, why do we read from God's scriptures that the beast has allowed to make war with God's faithful and overcome them? This is in the same way that God allowed his Son and his apostles to meet a martyr death, it is not God's wrath. Those that accepts the mark of the beast receives God's wrath:

Revelation 13 (NKJV)

7It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

 

[Absolutely]

Yes, it follows immediately after the great tribulation, which is imminent.

Matthew 24 (NKJV)

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

It is real simple.

Take a look at ALL THE "taken" verses.

No horses
No destroyed planet
All are prejudgement.

Nowhere do we see a gathering /rapture AFTER JUDGEMENT.

NOAH....NONE

LOT....NONE

ONE TAKEN/LEFT....NONE

THE BABY JESUS...NONE

GAME changer: in acts; "...this same Jesus shall return IN LIKE MANNER "
I mean,what do you guys do with all that????

He comes back with no white horses or as a conqueror for his bride !!!!!

How can you possibly reconcile that????

 

[Absolutely]

If you say God's faithful is raptured before the great tribulation, why do we read from God's scriptures that the beast has allowed to make war with God's faithful and overcome them? This is in the same way that God allowed his Son and his apostles to meet a martyr death, it is not God's wrath. Those that accepts the mark of the beast receives God's wrath:

Revelation 13 (NKJV)

7It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Yes that is true.
Again mat 25 half taken/left.

Fits like a glove

 

[Truth7t7]

According to pre-tribulation rapture theory, how can God's saints be in the great tribulation, if they were all supposed to be raptured before the great tribulation?

There is no pre-trib rapture found in scripture, the Church will be present on earth to see the Antichrist revealed.

The scripture clearly (WARNS) the believers to look for the Antichrist, that will (Precede) the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

2 Thessalonians 2:1-5KJV
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, it follows immediately after the great tribulation, which is imminent.

Matthew 24 (NKJV)

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Your 100% correct, now dispensationalism will bend and twist the plain scripture, to hide the truth presented in Matthew24:29-31

You bet it's the second coming, immediately after the Tribulation.

 

[BenjaminN]

Only the bride is taken.

See mat 25.

The ones left behind are beheaded. (For refusing the mark)

"left behind" was there not a movie by that name. Only God's children will refuse to take the mark of the beast, why would God's children be "left behind" according to your theory?

 

[BenjaminN]

There is no pre-trib rapture found in scripture, the Church will be present on earth to see the Antichrist revealed.

The scripture clearly (WARNS) the believers to look for the Antichrist, that will (Precede) the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

2 Thessalonians 2:1-5KJV
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Agreed, the same warning appears in Matthew 24, elaborating on the same events, of the antichrist during the great tribulation preceding the return of our real Christ:

Matthew 24 (NKJV)

4And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[BenjaminN]

Yes there are many verses about being ready because you don't know when he will come. Many. We are not to be looking for the Antichrist, the rebuilding of the temple, or the mark of the beast. We are to be looking for His appearing.

All these interpretations about the cryptic references in Revelation are fine to speculate about but they do not change the constant admonition of the New Testament to be ready and looking for His appearing. That must not change or we have taken a wrong path in our interpretations of eschatology.

The reason people get too emotionally invested in their views in eschatology is to hide from the real issue of allowing Christ to deal with their heart. Most of the people I have known that were so dogmatic about their views of eschatology and liked to argue about it all the time, were half-baked and living unholy lives. I wanted to tell them, "Who cares!? You're living in sin and what makes you think you are ready to meet Christ if He comes back today?" As soon as I start talking about fellowship with the Holy Spirit and intimacy with Christ they just blink and start talking about the Mark again. They are hiding. Front sliding...

Matthew 24 (NKJV)

22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. 23“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand.
26“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[luigi]

Many falsely teach the saints seen in Revelation 13:7 represents the Church, suggesting that (The Beast) will kill all Christians?

The saints on earth in Revelation 13:7 are the (Two Witnesses) seen in Revelation 11:7 below.

When the (Two Witnesses) finish their testimony after 1260 days, they will be overcome and killed by (The Beast) Gods Divine plan.

The saints seen in Revelation 13:7 dosen't represent the Church on earth, as many falsely teach in error, this represents the (Two Witnesses)

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 11:7KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Good morning Truth 7T7,
The saints who are overcome in Revelation 13:7, are the same saints in Daniel 7:25 who the little horn of the beast with 10 horns shall wear out with the great words his mouth shall speak. After the 3.5 times (1,260 days) allotted to the beast and little horn, the judgement shall then sit and rule to take away the beasts dominion (Daniel 7:26), and award the kingdom to the people of the saints (Daniel 7:27), thereby indicating the people of the saints as the church who are still on the earth.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

[BenjaminN]

Yes that is true.
Again mat 25 half taken/left.

Fits like a glove

The rapture of God's elect, his Bride the Church, is not in question. The timing preached, of God's elect, his Bride the Church's rapture is in question. Scriptures tells us that God's elect, his Bride the Church's rapture is with the return of Christ, after the great tribulation.

From Matthew 24, after the great tribulation, at the return of Christ, the God's elect, his bride the Church, gets raptured, before there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for those not raptured:

Matthew 24 (NKJV)

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 50the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Truth7t7]

Matthew 24 (NKJV)

22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. 23“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand.
26“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Plain and simple, Matthew is warning the (Church) on earth, regarding the tribulation

Then dispensationalism will twist the clear teaching of scripture and claim (Elect) only applies to Jews

Bend, Twist, Tear, the truth of Gids words.

 

[Truth7t7]

Good morning Truth 7T7,
The saints who are overcome in Revelation 13:7, are the same saints in Daniel 7:25 who the little horn of the beast with 10 horns shall wear out with the great words his mouth shall speak. After the 3.5 times (1,260 days) allotted to the beast and little horn, the judgement shall then sit and rule to take away the beasts dominion (Daniel 7:26), and award the kingdom to the people of the saints (Daniel 7:27), thereby indicating the people of the saints as the church who are still on the earth.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Same Event Below, Saints Overcome, Ancient Of Days, Possess The Kingdom.

I fully agree the saints (Church) will be present on earth to the end.

Daniel 7:21-22KJV
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Revelation 11:7-15KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Truth7t7]

The rapture of God's elect, his Bride the Church, is not in question. The timing preached, of God's elect, his Bride the Church's rapture is in question. Scriptures tells us that God's elect, his Bride the Church's rapture is with the return of Christ, after the great tribulation.

From Matthew 24, after the great tribulation, at the return of Christ, the God's elect, his bride the Church, gets raptured, before there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for those not raptured:

Matthew 24 (NKJV)

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 50the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I Agree 100%

The entire Chapter is dedicated to the Church present on earth during the tribulation, and dedicated to the second coming, told over and over in the Chapter.

Immediately After The Tribulation/They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming?

And they deny the very plain, simple, teachings in scripture, written so simple and easy a 3rd grader could understand it.

Why Do They Reject This Truth?

Because they have a Pre-Determined bias to keep the false teaching in a pre-trib rapture alive.

 

[BenjaminN]

Plain and simple, Matthew is warning the (Church) on earth, regarding the tribulation

Then dispensationalism will twist the clear teaching of scripture and claim (Elect) only applies to Jews

Bend, Twist, Tear, the truth of Gids words.

God's elect is his Church, the Body of Christ Yeshua.

Colossians 3 (NKJV)

12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.

Romans 8 (NKJV)

32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect?

 

[Truth7t7]

God's elect is his Church, the Body of Christ Yeshua.

Colossians 3 (NKJV)

12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.

Romans 8 (NKJV)

32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect?

I fully agree, (Elect) is the (Church)

Dispensationalism ignores this truth, they run in silence, and continue to falsely teach (Elect) applies to Jews only

The teachings in dispensationalism are easily proved wrong by scripture, the pre-trib rapture is a man made fairy tale, with no scripture supporting it, none!