A saving faith vs a dead faith

[ForestGreenCook]

In James 2:17 we are shown that someone can have a faith but still end up in Hell. A dead faith.
James 2:17 KJB "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

Thus we can infer there is a living, real, saving faith that will actually save us (by the grace of God).

In James chapter 2 it shows some of the signs of a dead faith, such as not helping someone who, within your sphere of influence, is in need of clothing or food, and you do not provide that for them and you are well able to.

So what are some other signs of a dead faith? And what about signs of a living/saving faith?
I'll list some I can think of, post any that you can think of in the comments please and thank you!

Dead faith: living willfully in sin, disobedient unto God, living an "effeminate life: meaning "it denotes those who give themselves up to a soft, luxurious, and indolent way of living; who make self-indulgence the grand object of life; who can endure `no hardship, and practice no self-denial in the cause of duty and of God" (quote from Albert Barnes commentary on 1 Corinthians 6:9-10),

Saving faith: lives a holy and righteous life, obedient unto God, bears good fruit for Christ and His cause (many ways to do this, ex: encouraging your brothers and sisters etc. or walking more and more perfectly according to God's will etc. etc.), helps those in need (gives to those who ask), practices self denial, does not love the world or things in the world, offers up spiritual sacrifices unto God, walks in faith (meaning whatever you do is without doubt that it is right with God)

P.S. I have cross posted this to other online Christian forums that I am active in. Please let me know if this is not okay. Thank you.

The inspired scriptures are written in a mystery which is hidden to most of God's regenerated children. Scriptures tell us that this mystery is only revealed, through the Holy Ghost, to but a few, the remnant, the 144000, the visible church, the very elect, etc.

The fact that the majority of God's regenerated children do not understand the mysteries does not negate their eternal inheritance. It does, however, affect their relationship with God as they live their lives here on earth.

One key to opening some of those mysteries is being able to understand that the Greek translation of many words have multiple meanings, such as the words; salvation, saved, save, death, Israel, world, earth, clay, heart, mind, Kingdom, baptism, and more.

Death, in James 2, is "a separation", not hell. The diversity of words also comes about by keeping the word in its context.

 

[lenna]

Dead faith: living willfully in sin, disobedient unto God, living an "effeminate life: meaning "it denotes those who give themselves up to a soft, luxurious, and indolent way of living; who make self-indulgence the grand object of life; who can endure `no hardship, and practice no self-denial in the cause of duty and of God" (quote from Albert Barnes commentary on 1 Corinthians 6:9-10),

uh

I don't find a dead and saving faith in scripture, but the above indicates that whatever they are believing is not faith at all

and what ministry? I didn't see anything on your profile

I don't know Albert either

 

[lenna]

on the other hand mr op, sorry that 2 members here decided to take over your thread and duke it out. these folks really need to take it to pm when they cannot stay on topic

while I am kind of scratching my head at your op, doesn't mean I can't discuss why or you cannot say why

 

[Jackson123]

So what you are saying is that if one believes in Jesus but don’t want to give food to the needy, he still goes to the lake of fire?

Depend, if one believe in Jesus, he will love Jesus, and love other, love mean help other.

But if he doesn't have a food, how he give food to the needy?

 

[Moses_Young]

Colossians 2:11-23

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
(Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Dead faith - uncircumcised heart, sins of the flesh, dead in sins and uncircumcision of flesh, being judged in respect of meat or drink or holiday or new moon or Sabbath, worshipping angels, vain, puffed up, disconnected from Christ the Head, subject to the ordinances of the world.

Real faith - circumcised heart, sins of the flesh put off, buried with Christ in baptism, risen with Christ, quickened and forgiven of trespasses, not being concerned with man's judgements in respect of meat or drink or holiday or new moon or Sabbath, worshipping Christ, humble, not puffed up, obedient and submitting to Christ the Head, not subject to the ordinances of the world.

 

[Moses_Young]

Depend, if one believe in Jesus, he will love Jesus, and love other, love mean help other.

But if he doesn't have a food, how he give food to the needy?

By faith of course!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes, during the Tribulation, if you take the mark of the beast, faith in Christ alone won't save you. (Rev 14:9-11)

Also during the Tribulation, if you refuse to offer food, drinks, clothes to the people of Israel who will be persecuted by the antichrist, your faith in Christ alone will not save you too (Matthew 25:41-46).

In Rev 14, The 144,000 is the remnant, and does not include all of God's regenerated children that will live in heaven. The fire that will scorche them, rev 16:9, that do not repent is the sun, and they will experience a "separation from God's fellowship" (death), and not eternal death, and I don't believe that the sun will be in hell.

Matt 25, This is referencing the last day judgement, in which the sheep (God's regenerated children) are not judged, but are told "come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". God's sheep are judged, by his chastening, as they sojourn here on earth, and will not face the second death, which is hell, only the goats, who never had spiritual faith, will face the second death.

 

[Jackson123]

By faith of course!

By pray

 

[throughfaith]

The inspired scriptures are written in a mystery which is hidden to most of God's regenerated children. Scriptures tell us that this mystery is only revealed, through the Holy Ghost, to but a few, the remnant, the 144000, the visible church, the very elect, etc.

The fact that the majority of God's regenerated children do not understand the mysteries does not negate their eternal inheritance. It does, however, affect their relationship with God as they live their lives here on earth.

One key to opening some of those mysteries is being able to understand that the Greek translation of many words have multiple meanings, such as the words; salvation, saved, save, death, Israel, world, earth, clay, heart, mind, Kingdom, baptism, and more.

Death, in James 2, is "a separation", not hell. The diversity of words also comes about by keeping the word in its context.

from this view you can make tge

The inspired scriptures are written in a mystery which is hidden to most of God's regenerated children. Scriptures tell us that this mystery is only revealed, through the Holy Ghost, to but a few, the remnant, the 144000, the visible church, the very elect, etc.

The fact that the majority of God's regenerated children do not understand the mysteries does not negate their eternal inheritance. It does, however, affect their relationship with God as they live their lives here on earth.

One key to opening some of those mysteries is being able to understand that the Greek translation of many words have multiple meanings, such as the words; salvation, saved, save, death, Israel, world, earth, clay, heart, mind, Kingdom, baptism, and more.

Death, in James 2, is "a separation", not hell. The diversity of words also comes about by keeping the word in its context.

where does it say this?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

from this view you can make tge

where does it say this?

Matt 11:25, Matt 7, the two gates. Mark 4:11, Rom 16:25, 1 Cor 2:7, Eph i:9, Eph 3:3, Col 1:26,

 

[throughfaith]

In Rev 14, The 144,000 is the remnant, and does not include all of God's regenerated children that will live in heaven. The fire that will scorche them, rev 16:9, that do not repent is the sun, and they will experience a "separation from God's fellowship" (death), and not eternal death, and I don't believe that the sun will be in hell.

Matt 25, This is referencing the last day judgement, in which the sheep (God's regenerated children) are not judged, but are told "come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". God's sheep are judged, by his chastening, as they sojourn here on earth, and will not face the second death, which is hell, only the goats, who never had spiritual faith, will face the second death.

The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the NATIONS will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

 

[Guojing]

Depend, if one believe in Jesus, he will love Jesus, and love other, love mean help other.

But if he doesn't have a food, how he give food to the needy?

Anyway, since you were harping on murder not inheriting the kingdom of God for a long time, it should be easy for you to believe that if you love Jesus but don't visit needy who are sick or in jail, clothe, feed others, you will also be told to "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

That fits your doctrine about murder not inheriting eternal life correct?

 

[Guojing]

In Rev 14, The 144,000 is the remnant, and does not include all of God's regenerated children that will live in heaven. The fire that will scorche them, rev 16:9, that do not repent is the sun, and they will experience a "separation from God's fellowship" (death), and not eternal death, and I don't believe that the sun will be in hell.

Matt 25, This is referencing the last day judgement, in which the sheep (God's regenerated children) are not judged, but are told "come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". God's sheep are judged, by his chastening, as they sojourn here on earth, and will not face the second death, which is hell, only the goats, who never had spiritual faith, will face the second death.

So who are those that Jesus said afterwards "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"?

If you read that passage literally, it refers to those "42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. "

 

[BlessedCreator]

Yes, during the Tribulation, if you take the mark of the beast, faith in Christ alone won't save you. (Rev 14:9-11)

Also during the Tribulation, if you refuse to offer food, drinks, clothes to the people of Israel who will be persecuted by the antichrist, your faith in Christ alone will not save you too (Matthew 25:41-46).

The 7 year trib doctrine from Daniel chapter 7 is false. The 70 weeks were fulfilled in Christ's time. The antichrist must be revealed this is true, but not sure what you're talking about with helping the people of the modern state of Israel. Also the mark of the beast is spiritual.

 

[Guojing]

The 7 year trib doctrine from Daniel chapter 7 is false. The 70 weeks were fulfilled in Christ's time. The antichrist must be revealed this is true, but not sure what you're talking about with helping the people of the modern state of Israel. Also the mark of the beast is spiritual.

Well, for those who believe in the pre-trib rapture of the Body of Christ, the Antichrist will emerge to persecute the nation Israel during those 7 years.

Everyone in Israel will have to flee to the mountains and pray that this flight takes place neither in the sabbath nor the winter, as Jesus prophesied.

So if you are a gentile then, and still want to be considered saved at the end of the Tribulation, it takes more than just faith in Jesus alone.

Like what you quoted from James, they need to have works together with that faith, which if you read that passage by Jesus in (Matthew 25:41-46), you are also required to feed and take care of the Jews, those who didn't manage to flee, who are being persecuted by the antichrist then.

At the end, Jesus on his throne will welcome you to his kingdom, because, as he said, if you did it for them, you are doing it for him. You will be saved thru the nation Israel, just like how gentiles were in time past.

 

[Jackson123]

Anyway, since you were harping on murder not inheriting the kingdom of God for a long time, it should be easy for you to believe that if you love Jesus but don't visit needy who are sick or in jail, clothe, feed others, you will also be told to "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

That fits your doctrine about murder not inheriting eternal life correct?

I don't have a doctrine, I believe what ever Jesus say

 

[Guojing]

I don't have a doctrine, I believe what ever Jesus say

So now you have more things to add to your list of “things that will send a believer to hell” doctrine, other than murder and lies

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The 7 year trib doctrine from Daniel chapter 7 is false. The 70 weeks were fulfilled in Christ's time. The antichrist must be revealed this is true, but not sure what you're talking about with helping the people of the modern state of Israel. Also the mark of the beast is spiritual.

This is false my friend,Christ fulfilled til the end of the 69thnweek when he was CUT OFF.

many things must occure before the 70th week begins.

but I think that is for another chat, this is off topic

 

[throughfaith]

Gospel focus on all nations

Matt 28
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Acts11
19¶Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the JEWS ONLY .

 

[Jackson123]

So now you have more things to add to your list of “things that will send a believer to hell” doctrine, other than murder and lies

I have been believe what ever Jesus teach for years.