A saving faith vs a dead faith

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B

BlessedCreator

Active member
#1
Apr 22, 2020
105
49
28
#1
In James 2:17 we are shown that someone can have a faith but still end up in Hell. A dead faith.
James 2:17 KJB "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

Thus we can infer there is a living, real, saving faith that will actually save us (by the grace of God).

In James chapter 2 it shows some of the signs of a dead faith, such as not helping someone who, within your sphere of influence, is in need of clothing or food, and you do not provide that for them and you are well able to.

So what are some other signs of a dead faith? And what about signs of a living/saving faith?
I'll list some I can think of, post any that you can think of in the comments please and thank you!

Dead faith: living willfully in sin, disobedient unto God, living an "effeminate life: meaning "it denotes those who give themselves up to a soft, luxurious, and indolent way of living; who make self-indulgence the grand object of life; who can endure `no hardship, and practice no self-denial in the cause of duty and of God" (quote from Albert Barnes commentary on 1 Corinthians 6:9-10),

Saving faith: lives a holy and righteous life, obedient unto God, bears good fruit for Christ and His cause (many ways to do this, ex: encouraging your brothers and sisters etc. or walking more and more perfectly according to God's will etc. etc.), helps those in need (gives to those who ask), practices self denial, does not love the world or things in the world, offers up spiritual sacrifices unto God, walks in faith (meaning whatever you do is without doubt that it is right with God)

P.S. I have cross posted this to other online Christian forums that I am active in. Please let me know if this is not okay. Thank you.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#2
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#2
BlessedCreator said:
In James 2:17 we are shown that someone can have a faith but still end up in Hell. A dead faith.
James 2:17 KJB "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

Thus we can infer there is a living, real, saving faith that will actually save us (by the grace of God).

In James chapter 2 it shows some of the signs of a dead faith, such as not helping someone who, within your sphere of influence, is in need of clothing or food, and you do not provide that for them and you are well able to.

So what are some other signs of a dead faith? And what about signs of a living/saving faith?
I'll list some I can think of, post any that you can think of in the comments please and thank you!

Dead faith: living willfully in sin, disobedient unto God, living an "effeminate life: meaning "it denotes those who give themselves up to a soft, luxurious, and indolent way of living; who make self-indulgence the grand object of life; who can endure `no hardship, and practice no self-denial in the cause of duty and of God" (quote from Albert Barnes commentary on 1 Corinthians 6:9-10),

Saving faith: lives a holy and righteous life, obedient unto God, bears good fruit for Christ and His cause (many ways to do this, ex: encouraging your brothers and sisters etc. or walking more and more perfectly according to God's will etc. etc.), helps those in need (gives to those who ask), practices self denial, does not love the world or things in the world, offers up spiritual sacrifices unto God, walks in faith (meaning whatever you do is without doubt that it is right with God)

P.S. I have cross posted this to other online Christian forums that I am active in. Please let me know if this is not okay. Thank you.
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Yes, during the Tribulation, if you take the mark of the beast, faith in Christ alone won't save you. (Rev 14:9-11)

Also during the Tribulation, if you refuse to offer food, drinks, clothes to the people of Israel who will be persecuted by the antichrist, your faith in Christ alone will not save you too (Matthew 25:41-46).
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#3
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#3
Guojing said:
Yes, during the Tribulation, if you take the mark of the beast, faith in Christ alone won't save you. (Rev 14:9-11)

Also during the Tribulation, if you refuse to offer food, drinks, clothes to the people of Israel who will be persecuted by the antichrist, your faith in Christ alone will not save you too (Matthew 25:41-46).
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Why only to Israel?
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#4
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#4
Jackson123 said:
Why only to Israel?
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45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Israel was always the focus in the book of Matthew (Matthew 15:24)
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#5
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#5
Guojing said:
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Israel was always the focus in the book of Matthew (Matthew 15:24)
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Gospel focus on all nations

Matt 28
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#6
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#6
Jackson123 said:
Gospel focus on all nations

Matt 28
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Click to expand...
Well, even if I can agree with you, that only happened at the very end of Matthew.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#8
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#8
BlessedCreator said:
In James 2:17 we are shown that someone can have a faith but still end up in Hell. A dead faith.
James 2:17 KJB "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

Thus we can infer there is a living, real, saving faith that will actually save us (by the grace of God).

In James chapter 2 it shows some of the signs of a dead faith, such as not helping someone who, within your sphere of influence, is in need of clothing or food, and you do not provide that for them and you are well able to.

So what are some other signs of a dead faith? And what about signs of a living/saving faith?
I'll list some I can think of, post any that you can think of in the comments please and thank you!

Dead faith: living willfully in sin, disobedient unto God, living an "effeminate life: meaning "it denotes those who give themselves up to a soft, luxurious, and indolent way of living; who make self-indulgence the grand object of life; who can endure `no hardship, and practice no self-denial in the cause of duty and of God" (quote from Albert Barnes commentary on 1 Corinthians 6:9-10),

Saving faith: lives a holy and righteous life, obedient unto God, bears good fruit for Christ and His cause (many ways to do this, ex: encouraging your brothers and sisters etc. or walking more and more perfectly according to God's will etc. etc.), helps those in need (gives to those who ask), practices self denial, does not love the world or things in the world, offers up spiritual sacrifices unto God, walks in faith (meaning whatever you do is without doubt that it is right with God)

P.S. I have cross posted this to other online Christian forums that I am active in. Please let me know if this is not okay. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Whats ' saving faith ' ? if you mean our faith that was required to recieve Jesus then that is a past tense requirement that has already been credited as righteousness. And we are then Justified . Then we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#9
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#9
BlessedCreator said:
In James 2:17 we are shown that someone can have a faith but still end up in Hell. A dead faith.
James 2:17 KJB "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

Thus we can infer there is a living, real, saving faith that will actually save us (by the grace of God).

In James chapter 2 it shows some of the signs of a dead faith, such as not helping someone who, within your sphere of influence, is in need of clothing or food, and you do not provide that for them and you are well able to.

So what are some other signs of a dead faith? And what about signs of a living/saving faith?
I'll list some I can think of, post any that you can think of in the comments please and thank you!

Dead faith: living willfully in sin, disobedient unto God, living an "effeminate life: meaning "it denotes those who give themselves up to a soft, luxurious, and indolent way of living; who make self-indulgence the grand object of life; who can endure `no hardship, and practice no self-denial in the cause of duty and of God" (quote from Albert Barnes commentary on 1 Corinthians 6:9-10),

Saving faith: lives a holy and righteous life, obedient unto God, bears good fruit for Christ and His cause (many ways to do this, ex: encouraging your brothers and sisters etc. or walking more and more perfectly according to God's will etc. etc.), helps those in need (gives to those who ask), practices self denial, does not love the world or things in the world, offers up spiritual sacrifices unto God, walks in faith (meaning whatever you do is without doubt that it is right with God)

P.S. I have cross posted this to other online Christian forums that I am active in. Please let me know if this is not okay. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Which tribe are you from ? Thats who James is writing to .
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#10
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#10
BlessedCreator said:
In James 2:17 we are shown that someone can have a faith but still end up in Hell. A dead faith.
James 2:17 KJB "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

Thus we can infer there is a living, real, saving faith that will actually save us (by the grace of God).

In James chapter 2 it shows some of the signs of a dead faith, such as not helping someone who, within your sphere of influence, is in need of clothing or food, and you do not provide that for them and you are well able to.

So what are some other signs of a dead faith? And what about signs of a living/saving faith?
I'll list some I can think of, post any that you can think of in the comments please and thank you!

Dead faith: living willfully in sin, disobedient unto God, living an "effeminate life: meaning "it denotes those who give themselves up to a soft, luxurious, and indolent way of living; who make self-indulgence the grand object of life; who can endure `no hardship, and practice no self-denial in the cause of duty and of God" (quote from Albert Barnes commentary on 1 Corinthians 6:9-10),

Saving faith: lives a holy and righteous life, obedient unto God, bears good fruit for Christ and His cause (many ways to do this, ex: encouraging your brothers and sisters etc. or walking more and more perfectly according to God's will etc. etc.), helps those in need (gives to those who ask), practices self denial, does not love the world or things in the world, offers up spiritual sacrifices unto God, walks in faith (meaning whatever you do is without doubt that it is right with God)

P.S. I have cross posted this to other online Christian forums that I am active in. Please let me know if this is not okay. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Doing good work, like helping the poor not save you, because salvation by faith not by work, but faith produce good loving work.

Dog is animal, but animal may not dog.

Faith > loving work for example feed the poor, but feed the poor not always product of faith
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#11
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#11
Jackson123 said:
Doing good work, like helping the poor not save you, because salvation by faith not by work, but faith produce good loving work.

Dog is animal, but animal may not dog.

Faith > loving work for example feed the poor, but feed the poor not always product of faith
Click to expand...
You are unaware of Matthew 25:41-46?

Not feeding Israelite Jews, during the Tribulation, can cast you into hell

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#12
#12
BlessedCreator said:
In James 2:17 we are shown that someone can have a faith but still end up in Hell. A dead faith.
James 2:17 KJB "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

Thus we can infer there is a living, real, saving faith that will actually save us (by the grace of God).

In James chapter 2 it shows some of the signs of a dead faith, such as not helping someone who, within your sphere of influence, is in need of clothing or food, and you do not provide that for them and you are well able to.

So what are some other signs of a dead faith? And what about signs of a living/saving faith?
I'll list some I can think of, post any that you can think of in the comments please and thank you!

Dead faith: living willfully in sin, disobedient unto God, living an "effeminate life: meaning "it denotes those who give themselves up to a soft, luxurious, and indolent way of living; who make self-indulgence the grand object of life; who can endure `no hardship, and practice no self-denial in the cause of duty and of God" (quote from Albert Barnes commentary on 1 Corinthians 6:9-10),

Saving faith: lives a holy and righteous life, obedient unto God, bears good fruit for Christ and His cause (many ways to do this, ex: encouraging your brothers and sisters etc. or walking more and more perfectly according to God's will etc. etc.), helps those in need (gives to those who ask), practices self denial, does not love the world or things in the world, offers up spiritual sacrifices unto God, walks in faith (meaning whatever you do is without doubt that it is right with God)

P.S. I have cross posted this to other online Christian forums that I am active in. Please let me know if this is not okay. Thank you.
Click to expand...
I think James explained what a dead faith is, when he called it belief. (Even demons believe) a dead faith is a mere belief, which has no power to save, a person who is not saved has not been given the Holy Spirit, not been changed and made a new creature, thus they have no power, they may be able to follow some rules and maybe even look like true believers, but like a dog they return to their vomit,

I also,disagree, they did not have faith, a dead faith is no faith at all, as James said, they CLAIMED to have faith, it’s one thing to claim it, it’s another to actually have it
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#13
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#13
Guojing said:
You are unaware of Matthew 25:41-46?

Not feeding Israelite Jews, during the Tribulation, can cast you into hell

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Click to expand...
1. It doesn't say not feeding israel
2. Itdaoesnt say only during tribulation.
3. Another verse in the Bible say whosoever believe in Jesus will be save, so that verse is explain what the real believer do to the needy.
In other word that loving work is product of real faith.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#14
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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113
#14
Jackson123 said:
1. It doesn't say not feeding israel
2. Itdaoesnt say only during tribulation.
3. Another verse in the Bible say whosoever believe in Jesus will be save, so that verse is explain what the real believer do to the needy.
In other word that loving work is product of real faith.
Click to expand...
So you think Jesus didn’t mean what he said there?
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#15
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#15
Guojing said:
So you think Jesus didn’t mean what he said there?
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He did, but where He say only for Israel, where He say only during tribulation.

And He mean what He say

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#16
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#16
Jackson123 said:
He did, but where He say only for Israel, where He say only during tribulation.

And He mean what He say

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Click to expand...
I was not referring to that, you believe Jesus was joking in vs 41-42?
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#17
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#17
Guojing said:
I was not referring to that, you believe Jesus was joking in vs 41-42?
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No He not, do you believe this verse

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#18
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#18
Jackson123 said:
No He not, do you believe this verse

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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So this verse trumps all, is that what you are trying to say?
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#19
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#19
Guojing said:
So this verse trumps all, is that what you are trying to say?
Click to expand...
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

This verse say salvation through believe in Jesus, matt 25 verse 35-42 explain what believe in Jesus look like, they aren't against each other.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#20
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#20
Jackson123 said:
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

This verse say salvation through believe in Jesus, matt 25 verse 35-42 explain what believe in Jesus look like, they aren't against each other.
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So what you are saying is that if one believes in Jesus but don’t want to give food to the needy, he still goes to the lake of fire?
 
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