When are we saved ?

[OIC1965]

Yes through his word . Not extra personal revelation. This is were the cults have managed to grow from .Its why we've got the benny hins and Kenneth Copelands ect .

Apples and oranges. What I am describing and they are not the same thing.

God draws period. It’s not the Father draws here, and the Son draws there, and the Spirit doesn’t draw at all. That’s a strange version of modalism.

 

[OIC1965]

Notice I said ' today ' . We have a completed bible . We know how God spake in times past .

When did the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-32 cease? Of course, nothing God illuminates will contradict His Word, but He still illuminates His Word in various ways.

 

[shittim]

He will grow us each as much as we will allow, He is Infinite, Creator, we are finite, the created.
His Word. His Rhema or His Logos?

 

[OIC1965]

The Spirit and bride say come. And let the one who hears say come. And let all who are thirsty come. And let everyone who is willing come and drink freely of the water of life

Revelation 22:17

 

[ForestGreenCook]

If I looked at just the Words. I could easily just ASSUME this person was a calvinist. Because they use these terms

However, those terms are in scripture. Thus they are not calvinist terms, the are Gods terms.

Our job is to determine which version this person believes

Does he believe in calvins view (double predestination. Regeneration before faith/justification, Chosen not based on free will but through no free will decision whatsoever

or does he believe the biblical view (predestined based on forknowledge to be conformed to the image of God. Regeneration after justification which is given based on faith in the work of God. Chosen based on free will. Gods grace is irresistible but at same time, Men have resisted in unbelief since adam. SO not totally IResistive, it is a free will decision.

After many posts after a few threads, and after many question. The person being accused of calvinism, REJECTS the calvinist view and accepts the free will biblical view.

This is my point. People see him use calvins terms, and automatically accuse him of calvinism. I have not only seen with this man but a few others.

That has to stop. On both sides.

There are plenty of scriptures that indicate that God has given mankind the freedom to choose the way that man wants to live his life as he sojourns here in this world, but there is no scriptures indicating that God has given mankind the freedom to choose eternal life, if you rightly divide the truths that are contained in the scriptures.

 

[OIC1965]

The Spirit and bride say come. And let the one who hears say come. And let all who are thirsty come. And let everyone who is willing come and drink freely of the water of life

Revelation 22:17

The Spirit and bride say come

Let those who HEAR come

Let those who thirst come

Let those who are willing come

Only those who hear the call and are thirsty will come to the water. Those who are not thirsty are not willing to come.

Coming is much more than the physical act of making a profession of faith. Almost anyone can do that. But that’s not saving faith.

 

[throughfaith]

You have an understanding of the Trinity where one person operates independantly and unilaterally apart from the other persons. You would have to give scripture, ie meet the burden of proof, for that assertion.

I don’t have to bear a burden of proof. I have already shown from scripture that both believers and non believers receive light from the Holy Spirit. One side rejects, the other receives

You need to show in the Bible that the persons of the Trinity act independantly of one another, that is your claim that the Father and or Son draws independantly and seperately of the Holy Spirit.

No I have scriptures that say the Father draws before the cross . The Son says when he be lifted up ,he will draw ALL man unto him . We have no verse that says the Holy Spirt ' draws ' . Thats just a biblical fact and reality.

 

[throughfaith]

The Spirit and bride call

Let those who HEAR come

Let those who thirst come

Let those who are willing come

Only those who hear the call and are thirsty will come to the water. Those who are not thirsty are not willing to come.

Any one reading those verses or hearing them read can understand. I'm really not saying anything radical here . Just common sense .

 

[throughfaith]

When did the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-32 cease? Of course, nothing God illuminates will contradict His Word, but He still illuminates His Word in various ways.

Yall keep missing ' today ' .

 

[EleventhHour]

there is a large population of Italians in Montreal...East end if I remember I think? I once had quite a few Italian friends...Christians that I met

well my last name (before marriage) is as English as it can get...so. alot of French people do not have the anti sentiments to be fair, but there is enough of it

stress in THIS thread? did I miss it ?

Quebec is beautiful and we used spend our summers up north in the Laurentians and later on, in the Lanaudière area, the elevation is higher there...Mt Tremblant and Tremblant park etc. I will always miss it I guess

Agree some of the anti-English sentiment has abated thankfully.

Mt. Tremblant.... yes it is beautiful for sure, have been skiing there several times.
Montreal is the best...like it better than TO.
You may come back someday for a visit.. never say never.

 

[OIC1965]

If you are not willing, you will not freely choose something. Only those who are willing freely choose Christ.

 

[OIC1965]

Yall keep missing ' today ' .

That doesn’t answer the question I asked.

 

[OIC1965]

Any one reading those verses or hearing them read can understand. I'm really not saying anything radical here . Just common sense .

Are those who are unwilling able to freely choose Christ?

 

[EleventhHour]

The natural man, before he has been regenerated only has faith in man, and his accomplishments. He does not have spiritual faith. Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, which is given in regeneration.

Faith is faith
It is not a novel word used in scripture... it is not a different spiritual level.
The difference is faith IN Jesus Christ

 

[ForestGreenCook]

If you understand the gospel, God's eternal grace was present since the beginning of time beforehand working in shaping your life to come, till its never ending in eternity. God saves man, not man himself - not because of something man does or studies and understands. God's eternal grace is the sole cause of man's salvation. If God's grace was absent, and we only had God's righteousness, none of us would be able to enter his presence, but by God's grace, he who receives it, is able to enter the presence of God. It is like a Judge in a court says, I will take the death penalty for you - but you say, no I can pay myself in some way - if you received through faith as a gift of the Judge as well, the Judge's gift of grace saves you from his righteousness.

We all were dead in sins, when God quickened us to a new spiritual life. How does a dead man receive anything? If it is a FREE gift, then it is free, man has nothing to do with it.

 

[OIC1965]

No I have scriptures that say the Father draws before the cross . The Son says when he be lifted up ,he will draw ALL man unto him . We have no verse that says the Holy Spirt ' draws ' . Thats just a biblical fact and reality.

Biblical fact is that we do not serve three independant gods acting independantly, but a Triune God who is One, and the Father does not act independantly from God the Spirit, nor does God the Son.

 

[throughfaith]

God speaking audibly does not contradict God's revealed written Word at all.

Quite frankly it is a ridiculous assertion on your part.

Keep Him in a box if you must.

Then we go beyond what is written then ?

If you are not willing, you will not freely choose something. Only those who are willing freely choose Christ.

I can't believe its come to this in christianity where we cannot simply answer a childs question if they asked " what must I do to be saved ?' . Oh well you can't just simply believe the Gospel little one , its quite complicated you see ...." This is what reformed teaching has done. its helping satan hinder the simple Gospel message and drawing christians away from the simplicity in Christ .

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Faith is faith
It is not a novel word used in scripture... it is not a different spiritual level.
The difference is faith IN Jesus Christ

The natural man has no faith in Jesus and his spiritual message. Reread 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[OIC1965]

Are those who are unwilling able to freely choose Christ?

If they chose Christ unwillingly, it would not be a free choice. Therefore it is a contradiction to say that an unwilling person is able to freely choose Christ. He must be willing before he can choose.

 

[OIC1965]

Then we go beyond what is written then ?

I can't believe its come to this in christianity where we cannot simply answer a childs question if they asked " what must I do to be saved ?' . Oh well you can't just simply believe the Gospel little one , its quite complicated you see ...." This is what reformed teaching has done. its helping satan hinder the simple Gospel message and drawing christians away from the simplicity in Christ .

You can tell people to believe, but if they are unwilling they will not be able to believe. Only those who are willing are called to the water of life. That is why Jesus said you cannot understand my speech because you are not able to hear my words.