When are we saved ?

[ForestGreenCook]

These are all from the New Testament / Brit Chadashah:

All verses from Peter, Paul and James (I'll give you a very well known one's context at the end of this post from John as well, also after the cross) is after the cross, except those that Jesus himself said. Jesus taught this, about when you will meet him again at judgement at your death after the cross:

Matthew 7 (ESV)

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Ps Can you enter the kingdom of heaven before the cross? This is a scenario that plays out after the cross.)

John 3 (ESV)

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God."

The elect is saved by God's grace, through God-given faith, for God-prepared works.


Ephesians 2 (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, ... 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

BenjaminN, I agree, mostly, with your statements. With all due respect, I would like you to consider; that "the kingdom of heaven" has reference to the church, and not eternal heaven. The church is called by many different names in the scriptures, such as; the kingdom of God, the church of Christ, The church of God, the church of the first born, the church in the wilderness, the new Jerusalem, Zion, Israel, and others.

In church discipline, some people, with sin in their lives, are not permitted into the church fellowship, but are allowed into eternal heaven. Matt 7:21, Not every one that saith unto me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. If the kingdom of heaven, in this verse, was eternal heaven, then it would indicate that "doing the will of the Father" would be the cause of our entering into eternal heaven, and that would be "eternal salvation by our good works".

Verses like this is misinterpreted by most of God's elect children, giving them the false idea that they have to do something to gain eternal heaven.

 

[OIC1965]

Depends on which systematic is using those words . The reformed mean something entirely different when they throw around those terms . Which comes from Augustines gnosctism. Its traced back to him. People say " but I've never read his works ,or calvins " . My advice would be to do so . To trace back these concepts which only came about in the 4th century.

You can largely determine the biblical meaning of Greek words by tracing their usage in the New Testament. You don’t have to read Calvin or Augustine. I get my data from the Bible.

 

[OIC1965]

If you do a word search ( try now ) on the words( not doctrines man has given upon words ) Choose , elect, chosen ect EVERY TIME its the Jews or purpose and service. NEVER refers to salvation / conversion ( to be saved ) . NOT ONCE .So you have a faulty starting point EVERY time you use the word ' elect ' . This is the problem with Calminism .

To be holy and without blame before Him in love is indeed a good purpose. And it is also salvific language.

 

[OIC1965]

Faith is not the gift in eph 2 . Salvation is the free gift . Faith is the prerequisite.

Did God take away your stony heart and give you a heart of flesh, (soft receptive heart)?

Was it after you believed or when you believed?

If after, how long did you have to wait?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

If you do a word search ( try now ) on the words( not doctrines man has given upon words ) Choose , elect, chosen ect EVERY TIME its the Jews or purpose and service. NEVER refers to salvation / conversion ( to be saved ) . NOT ONCE .So you have a faulty starting point EVERY time you use the word ' elect ' . This is the problem with Calminism .

Your failure to recognize Jacob, as Israel, which is not the nation of Israel, but is Jacob/Israel representing the elect, Rom 9:11, and consists of people from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation, Rev 5:9. Rom 9:6, Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.

Isaiah 45:4, For Jacob, my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect. I have even called thee by thy name. I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Jesus came to the Lost sheep of the house of Israel . Are you a ' hebrew roots ' ist .?

The lost sheep of the house of Israel, is not referencing the nation of Israel, but is referencing Jacob, who God changed his name to be called Israel, which represents God's elect from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

 

[OIC1965]

Depends on which systematic is using those words . The reformed mean something entirely different when they throw around those terms . Which comes from Augustines gnosctism. Its traced back to him. People say " but I've never read his works ,or calvins " . My advice would be to do so . To trace back these concepts which only came about in the 4th century.

It doesn’t matter what system you try to box the Bible into, which I try my best to avoid. That’s irrelevant, because eklectos (chosen,elect) is the noun form for the verb eklego, ( elect or choose).

It’s a grammatical reality.

 

[BenjaminN]

If you do a word search ( try now ) on the words( not doctrines man has given upon words ) Choose , elect, chosen ect EVERY TIME its the Jews or purpose and service. NEVER refers to salvation / conversion ( to be saved ) . NOT ONCE .So you have a faulty starting point EVERY time you use the word ' elect ' . This is the problem with Calminism .

Jews <> True Israel

True Israel = Assebly of God's covenant people = True Church

 

[BenjaminN]

True Israel or True Church = Ephraim + Judah = Christians + Messianic Jews

 

[BenjaminN]

 

[BenjaminN]

Messianic Jews = Jewish believers in Yeshua ha'Mashiach / Jesus the Messiah

 

[BenjaminN]

The elect = The body of the Messiah / Meshiach = True Israel = True Church = Ephraim + Judah = Christians + Messianic Jews

 

[throughfaith]

You can largely determine the biblical meaning of Greek words by tracing their usage in the New Testament. You don’t have to read Calvin or Augustine. I get my data from the Bible.

I think its something like 260 times the words ' chosen , choose , elect ect are used and every usage it refers to service and purpose , never salvation.
Ephesians 6:5–7 (KJV)
5 SERVANTS be obedient to them that are your masters according to the
flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the SERVANTS of Christ,
doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing SERVICE as to the Lord, and not to men:

 

[throughfaith]

Jews <> True Israel

True Israel = Assebly of God's covenant people = True Church

There's never a covenant with the Church . Always Israel . You are deceived.

 

[throughfaith]

To be holy and without blame before Him in love is indeed a good purpose. And it is also salvific language.

Yes all those in him are chosen to be holy and blameless in love he predestined to future Adoption. This only happens to those in him . When do we get in him ?
Eph 2.11-12 reminds us that in no sense whatsoever are we in him before we exist .

 

[throughfaith]

Did God take away your stony heart and give you a heart of flesh, (soft receptive heart)?

Was it after you believed or when you believed?

If after, how long did you have to wait?

Your referring to Ezekiel which is not referring to Gentiles but a future occurrence for Israel . Your doing the calvinist thing again . Gentiles in 2020 are having stony hearts replaced by hew hearts to walk in statutes and ordinances lol . Israel will be caused to walk in those Jewish statutes and ordinances, in the future tribulation period .

 

[OIC1965]

I think its something like 260 times the words ' chosen , choose , elect ect are used and every usage it refers to service and purpose , never salvation.
Ephesians 6:5–7 (KJV)
5 SERVANTS be obedient to them that are your masters according to the
flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the SERVANTS of Christ,
doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing SERVICE as to the Lord, and not to men:

Yes. Chosen to be holy and without blame before Him in love is a GREAT PURPOSE!!!

 

[OIC1965]

Your referring to Ezekiel which is not referring to Gentiles but a future occurrence for Israel . Your doing the calvinist thing again .

So are you saying God did not give you a new heart? He gave me one.

 

[OIC1965]

Yes all those in him are chosen to be holy and blameless in love he predestined to future Adoption. This only happens to those in him . When do we get in him ?
Eph 2.11-12 reminds us that in no sense whatsoever are we in him before we exist .

No we were not in Him before we existed, but we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. You are getting tripped up by the preposition “in”. Do some digging on the various uses of the preposition

 

[throughfaith]

The lost sheep of the house of Israel, is not referencing the nation of Israel, but is referencing Jacob, who God changed his name to be called Israel, which represents God's elect from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

You've been addressed on this issue numerous times. This is garbage ( respectfully) There is Jews 1) Gentiles 2) and the church of God .