The message of reconciliation.

throughfaith · Sep 18, 2020

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Verse 8 explains that Jesus died for sinners . So that's everyone without exception.

Verse 9 explains that ' much more ' than Jesus dying for everyone's sins ( without exception ) after we believed we were justified by his blood and we will never fall under his wrath now ( through him )

Verse 10 For if when we( Every sinner without exception) were enemies ,every one without exception was reconciled to God by the death of his Son . Much more because everyone without exception was reconciled they will be reconciled because of his life ( resurrection) . So if they believe the Gospel they will be saved by his life .

Verse 11 explains that even though everyone without exception was reconciled by his death , to be saved by his life they need to recieve the atonement.

2cor 5 .19
17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20¶Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

verse 18 explains that we as believers( because we believed )we are reconciled by his death AND his life . We have been committed to understand this correctly so we can tell this good news to others.

Verse 19 Futher explains that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself NOT imputing everyones ( everyone without exception) trespasses against them . Jesus truly died and paid for the sins of the world ( everyone without exception)

This all means that no one will be in hell ' paying for their own sins ' . They will be in hell because they refused to believe the truth so as to be saved .

It means that we were not saved by the ' death of christ ' but by his life ( resurrection) . Of course it goes without saying that without his death we could not be saved . Therefore we needed the death ( justified by his blood ) burial and resurrection (much more saved by his life )

No this isn't ' universalism ' Just because Jesus paid for all and everyone's sins ( including the sin of unbelief) no one can be saved without ( his life ) glorification. We received Jesus when we believed. John 1.12 . We recieved the atonement. because by faith we accessed the grace . Rom 5.2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Not only that . We are now predestined to future redemption of the body .
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
After we believed we were sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Eph 1.13-14 . Eph 4.30
This means we cannot be lost or forfeit salvation. Eternal security rest on the promises of God . The guarantee of the Holy Spirit and God who ' predestines all believers to Guaranteed future glorification. Not before we were born ( to be saved ) but after we recieved the Holy Spirit.

This is the message of reconciliation.

stepbystep · Sep 19, 2020

An interesting opinion.

One or two questions:

Verse 10 For if when we( Every sinner without exception) were enemies ,every one without exception was reconciled to God by the death of his Son . Much more because everyone without exception was reconciled they will be reconciled because of his life ( resurrection) . So if they believe the Gospel they will be saved by his life .

Are you saying unbelieving sinners who rejected Jesus is reconciled to God?

Is it not the blood of Jesus that cleanses us (those who believe in Him) of our sins and makes us worthy to be called Sons of God? And this precious blood is what is required for salvation?

stepbystep · Sep 19, 2020

KJV Dictionary says this:

Reconcile
RECONCI'LE, verb transitive [Latin reconcilio; re and concilio; con and calo, to call, Gr. The literal sense is to call back into union.]

1. To conciliate anew; to call back into union and friendship the affections which have been alienated; to restore to friendship or favor
after estrangement; as, to reconcile men or parties that have been at variance.
Go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother - Matthew 5:24.
We pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2 Corinthians 5:18. Ephesians 2:16. Colossians 1:20.

2. To bring to acquiescence, content or quiet submission; with to; as, to reconcile one's self to afflictions. It is our duty to be reconciled to the dispensations of Providence.

3. To make consistent or congruous; to bring to agreement or suitableness; followed by with or to.
The great men among the ancients understood how to reconcile manual labor with affairs of state.
Some figures monstrous and misshap'd appear, considered singly, or beheld too near; which but proportion'd to their light and place, due distance reconciles to form and grace.

4. To adjust; to settle; as, to reconcile differences or quarrels.

This would seem to say that those who do not believe in Jesus are not reconciled with God, since they are only "restored to friendship or favor" by believing in Jesus.

throughfaith · Sep 19, 2020

stepbystep said:

You say //Are you saying unbelieving sinners who rejected Jesus is reconciled to God? // If a person dies without receiving Jesus then they won't be glorified . Only those who are not glorifed will find themselves in hell . Their sins were paid for and dealt with on the cross . But without receiving Jesus ( John 1.12 ) they cannot be glorified .

throughfaith · Sep 19, 2020

stepbystep said:

Its not my opinion. its what the verses say .Eph 2
14¶For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
The barrier between man and God ( so to speak ) the enmity was dealt with at the cross . ( " it is finished " ) Jesus reconciled the world in this sense . We say ' be reconciled to God ' to unbelievers in the sense of receiving the atonement already dealt with but they need to recieve Jesus to be glorified.

stepbystep · Sep 19, 2020

throughfaith said:

This sounds like you are replacing "saved" with "glorified." That would mean it would be Gods Glorification Plan which seems to contradict a lot of Scriptures that speak of salvation.

I still think it is an interesting interpretation (if not opinion) of the Scriptures you posted in your first comment. Worth thinking of and study. Not being argumentative.

throughfaith · Sep 19, 2020

stepbystep said:

Of course its Gods ' Glorification plan ' ( so to speak ) but yes exactly. Thats why its good news ..Thats why its the ' message of reconciliation. By Faith ,the blood is applied . ( Justification) .
Which scriptures contradict what I'm saying please ?

NOV25 · Sep 19, 2020

throughfaith said:

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Verse 8 explains that Jesus died for sinners . So that's everyone without exception.

Verse 9 explains that ' much more ' than Jesus dying for everyone's sins ( without exception ) after we believed we were justified by his blood and we will never fall under his wrath now ( through him )

Verse 10 For if when we( Every sinner without exception) were enemies ,every one without exception was reconciled to God by the death of his Son . Much more because everyone without exception was reconciled they will be reconciled because of his life ( resurrection) . So if they believe the Gospel they will be saved by his life .

Verse 11 explains that even though everyone without exception was reconciled by his death , to be saved by his life they need to recieve the atonement.

2cor 5 .19
17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20¶Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

verse 18 explains that we as believers( because we believed )we are reconciled by his death AND his life . We have been committed to understand this correctly so we can tell this good news to others.

Verse 19 Futher explains that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself NOT imputing everyones ( everyone without exception) trespasses against them . Jesus truly died and paid for the sins of the world ( everyone without exception)

This all means that no one will be in hell ' paying for their own sins ' . They will be in hell because they refused to believe the truth so as to be saved .

It means that we were not saved by the ' death of christ ' but by his life ( resurrection) . Of course it goes without saying that without his death we could not be saved . Therefore we needed the death ( justified by his blood ) burial and resurrection (much more saved by his life )

No this isn't ' universalism ' Just because Jesus paid for all and everyone's sins ( including the sin of unbelief) no one can be saved without ( his life ) glorification. We received Jesus when we believed. John 1.12 . We recieved the atonement. because by faith we accessed the grace . Rom 5.2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Not only that . We are now predestined to future redemption of the body .
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
After we believed we were sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Eph 1.13-14 . Eph 4.30
This means we cannot be lost or forfeit salvation. Eternal security rest on the promises of God . The guarantee of the Holy Spirit and God who ' predestines all believers to Guaranteed future glorification. Not before we were born ( to be saved ) but after we recieved the Holy Spirit.

This is the message of reconciliation.

What a mess! Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly.

"Jesus died for all sin, even the sin of unbelief, except for those who are in hell for not believing..."

That's pretty much what you're saying, which is obviously false and if I may, really dumb.

throughfaith · Sep 19, 2020

NOV25 said:

You do not know your bible . They ...refused ...to ....believe ...The ...truth ...So ...as ....TO ....BE ...SAVED . It's the only access to the Grace . Every one was in unbelief before they were saved . Yes it's a sin . Yes Jesus Paid for that sin . But if a person goes to hell it's because they didn't receive Jesus . It's the result of not believing . It will sound a mess to you ,because of your Calvinism which teaches the mess .

MessageOfTheCross · Sep 19, 2020

throughfaith said:

“Wherefore the rather, Brethren, give diligence to make your Calling and Election sure (this is what Jesus was speaking of when He told us to deny ourselves and take up the Cross daily and follow Him [Lk. 9:23]; every day, the Believer must make certain His Faith is anchored in the Cross and the Cross alone; only then can we realize the tremendous benefits afforded by the Sacrifice of Christ): for if you do these things, you shall never fall (presents the key to Eternal Security, but with the Promise being conditional):” 2 Peter 1:10

JSM

NOV25 · Sep 19, 2020

You don't know what you're saying, apparently. You're claiming Jesus died for the sin of unbelief but those who are in hell are there for unbelief.

throughfaith · Sep 19, 2020

NOV25 said:

They are their because of unbelief . Why ? Because belief is the access to be saved . Rom 5.2

NOV25 · Sep 19, 2020

🤦‍♂️ Never mind

throughfaith · Sep 19, 2020

MessageOfTheCross said:

“Wherefore the rather, Brethren, give diligence to make your Calling and Election sure (this is what Jesus was speaking of when He told us to deny ourselves and take up the Cross daily and follow Him [Lk. 9:23]; every day, the Believer must make certain His Faith is anchored in the Cross and the Cross alone; only then can we realize the tremendous benefits afforded by the Sacrifice of Christ): for if you do these things, you shall never fall (presents the key to Eternal Secpurity Promise being conditional):” 2 Peter 1:10

JSM

Eternal security is not Eternal security if it's conditional.

throughfaith · Sep 19, 2020

NOV25 said:

Did you have a scripture to refute what I'm saying ? iron sharpens iron ?

Corban · Sep 19, 2020

throughfaith said:

I think that you might want to revise your opinion. In Romans 5:8-11 we read;

8 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement."

The various benefits of this passage pertain to US - the believer - not all men (see who Paul addresses - Rom.1:7). It is true that Christ died for "the Sin (singular) of the world" (Jn.1:29), and He died for the trespasses (sins - plural) of the world (1st Jn.2:2). But they were not to release the infidel. They were to set a judicial groundwork for (i) the resurrection of all men (1st Cor.15:22), and (ii) the freedom for God to have mercy on whom He likes. The main beneficiary is of course Israel who receive mercy though they are "concluded by God in UNBELIEF" until the times of the Gentiles are full - Armageddon.

I am aware of Romans 11:15 and 2 Corinthians 5:19 and "the reconciling of the world", but the past continuous tense shows an ongoing process that (i) will have an end, and (ii) is conditional. You can see this conditional reconciliation in point (ii). In Romans 11:15 Israel are cast away at first. Their reconciliation comes after the Church is built (Act.15:14-16) and is based on Covenant - not faith. This, the Gentiles do not have.

MessageOfTheCross · Sep 19, 2020

throughfaith said:

“14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it (every contrite heart earnestly desires to be among the “few”; the requirements are greater than most are willing to accept).” Matthew 7:14

“21 Not every one who says unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven (the repetition of the word “Lord” expresses astonishment, as if to say: “Are we to be disowned?”); but he who does the Will of My Father which is in Heaven (what is the Will of the Father? Verse 23 tells us).

22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not Prophesied in Your Name? and in Your Name have cast out devils? and in Your Name done many wonderful works? (These things are not the criteria, but rather Faith in Christ and what Christ has done for us at the Cross [Eph. 2:8-9, 13-18]. The Word of God alone is to be the judge of doctrine.)

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you (again we say, the criteria alone is Christ and Him Crucified [I Cor. 1:23]): depart from Me, you who work iniquity (we have access to God only through Christ, and access to Christ only through the Cross, and access to the Cross only through a denial of self [Lk. 9:23]; any other Message is Judged by God as “iniquity,” and cannot be a part of Christ [I Cor. 1:17]).” Matthew 7:21-23

JSM

MessageOfTheCross · Sep 19, 2020

Your Word for Today

And we know that all things work together for good to them who love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose (Rom. 8:28).

This Scripture is, without a doubt, one of the most quoted found in the entirety of the Word of God. It is an astounding Promise! There are, however, some conditions in this Promise, conditions which many Christians overlook. The Promise made here is not a blanket guarantee, as many think; but, if the conditions are met, then most definitely it is a guarantee.

What are those conditions?

First of all, to have all things working together for our good, we have to “love God.” As Believers, we might automatically think this is a simple requirement. But it’s not quite as simple as we would think. That is why Jesus, after His Resurrection and immediately before His Ascension, questioned Peter closely. The questions concerned Peter’s love for Christ (Jn. 21:15-17). It is very easy to loudly acclaim how much we love the Lord, but words oftentimes are hollow.

To make a lengthy subject brief, if we really love the Lord as we say we do, we will place our Faith exclusively in Him and what He did for us at the Cross. In a greater manner than anything else, that will show our love and will open the door for the consecration we need to make.

The second requirement is that we function in His Calling for our lives “according to His Purpose.” So many times, it is “our purpose” instead of “His Purpose”! Moreover, we cannot know that for which He truly has called us, or what His Purpose is for our lives, unless our Faith is properly anchored in the Cross.

The reason?

When our faith is anchored elsewhere, this means that we are functioning according to the flesh, which harks back to our own personal desires, and not at all what the Lord wants. In fact, faith anchored outside of the Cross can hardly achieve His Purpose at all. Accordingly, we have all kind of things, which are very obvious, not working for the good of Christians.

To have our Faith properly placed doesn’t mean that Satan will cease his operation against us; however, it does mean that whatever he tries to do, the Lord will ultimately turn it to our good. We here have His Promise to that effect, and the Lord most definitely keeps His Promises, that is, if we meet His Conditions, which, in fact, can easily be met, if we get “self” out of the way.

— Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)
Donnie Swaggart

stepbystep · Sep 19, 2020

NOV25 said:

A lot of Scripture will have to be rewritten if his version of Gods Salvation Plan becomes Biblical Truth.

Start with:

Ephesians 2:8) For by grace are ye RECONCILED through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

All the Scriptures that state "saved" will have to be rewritten, and that goes completely against Scripture.

Nehemiah6 · Sep 19, 2020

throughfaith said:

What does this mean? Firstly sin brought enmity between God and man. Before we were saved, we were all enemies of God (Col 1:20). The sacrifice of Christ removed the enmity of God from mankind. Thus God was in Christ "reconciling the world unto Himself". Reconciliation means THE REMOVAL OF ENMITY ( "the restoration of the favor of God to sinners that repent and put their trust in the expiatory death of Christ").

Therefore the only enmity which exists is on the part of men who are outside of Christ. The "ministry of reconciliation" is in effect the preaching of the Gospel, since those who obey the Gospel are reconciled to God through Christ.

The message of reconciliation.

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